Plasma Ignition | Plasma Jet Ignition

[RB176]

Thanks Aaron I’ll have to do some tuning I guess. For now just using Autolite non-resistor plugs, I’ll have to keep an eye on plug wear and in the meantime do some research and find a tungsten plug or some other crossover that would be better suited for plasma.

[Realtravel]

I have purchased both your ebooks on (Plasma Ignition and wasted spark), I have also been studying wasted spark methods, not sure how to implement your wasted spark system, I have sourced the leads from grantatelli they suit the American 2001-05 Buick Electra, Le Sabre 6 Cyl 3.8l Product ID : 26-1711S, which is similar to the motor I have (Australian 2001 vx V6 Commodore), which has a DFI module that the coil packs sits into, each coil is connected by pins from the DFI module, there is a connector to the DFI module which is controlled by crank angle sensor, how do I connect to each one, without schematics for my wiring I am not sure how to wire the wasted spark modules up.

[Aaron Murakami]

Hey Aaron got my plasma setup up and running Wow unbelievable. Got a quick question if you are going for performance do you think retarding your ignition timing and letting the cylinder get a complete fill would increase HP do to the cleaner burn? Also I’ve seen you open the plug gap, do you think an additional 10-15th would be sufficient? Thanks Jeremiah

Ideally, you'd do trial and error on a dyno but that does cost a bit.

The plasma ignition is not only fast itself, the entire combustion process is accelerated so that with delaying timing a bit towards TDC could give more power.

Yes, opening the plug as well can help delay it a bit and will give a bigger bang. You'd sacrifice plug life though.

What plugs are you using? I still want to test the Weapon X iridium non-resistor plugs.

Can you post some pics and/or vids of your ignition setup? That would be cool to see.

[heysoundude]

In any case, for the plasma, I think it would be almost impossible to calculate perfectly but ballpark could be possible. That is because it is difficult to tell how much of the cap discharges to the primary and how much is left over to jump the gap - most jumps the gap.

A ballpark is a pretty big place; I think this is more in between horseshoes and hand grenades close how much of the primary discharges to the secondary? who cares, as long as the energy does indeed jump the gap at the right time; there just has to be enough there for it to happen.My point is, differentiating between kettering and CDI is moot because a coil (both primary and secondary) clearly has capacitance based on that equation.

[RB176]

Hey Aaron got my plasma setup up and running Wow unbelievable. Got a quick question if you are going for performance do you think retarding your ignition timing and letting the cylinder get a complete fill would increase HP do to the cleaner burn? Also I’ve seen you open the plug gap, do you think an additional 10-15th would be sufficient? Thanks Jeremiah

[Aaron Murakami]

OOPS! thanks for correcting that, Aaron.No, I've not found (stumbled across) one for CDI...but wouldn't the speed you're looking for be "c"? or were you meaning charging TIME? easy enough to calculate:F = seconds / ohms (from wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farad lots of other neat & handy equivalencies there too, so if you're algebraically inclined and/or have a bunch of specs/measurements, you can solve for what you need)F * ohms = seconds ...which is why you want a low primary resistance, right? so the energy influx required prior to the spark event is as short as possible. also why you want as low a resistance as possible on the secondary side too, in this use case: so the energy delivery event is as short as possible as well.

In any case, for the plasma, I think it would be almost impossible to calculate perfectly but ballpark could be possible. That is because it is difficult to tell how much of the cap discharges to the primary and how much is left over to jump the gap - most jumps the gap.

[heysoundude]

OOPS! thanks for correcting that, Aaron.No, I've not found (stumbled across) one for CDI...but wouldn't the speed you're looking for be "c"? or were you meaning charging TIME? easy enough to calculate:F = seconds / ohms (from wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farad lots of other neat & handy equivalencies there too, so if you're algebraically inclined and/or have a bunch of specs/measurements, you can solve for what you need)F * ohms = seconds ...which is why you want a low primary resistance, right? so the energy influx required prior to the spark event is as short as possible. also why you want as low a resistance as possible on the secondary side too, in this use case: so the energy delivery event is as short as possible as well.

[Aaron Murakami]

has anyone input their coil's etc specs into this calculator?http://bgsoflex.com/igncoil.htmljust in case it might help to fine tune anything...

The word just doesn't have a space before it so the link does work - here's the corrected one: http://bgsoflex.com/igncoil.html

Seems to apply to just kettering ignition so the basic spark ignition but still pretty cool. Have you come across one for capacitive discharge? That might be tough because might have to know the charging speed of the cap charging circuit.

[heysoundude]

has anyone input their coil's etc specs into this calculator?http://bgsoflex.com/igncoil.htmljust in case it might help to fine tune anything...

[RB176]

Thank you Gary

[RB176]

Thank you Aaron

[Gary Hammond]

Thanks Aaron and Gary, I already picked up a Flamethrower III now so I should be in good shape. On another note how well have the diodes (Prhv2a-20) you’ve been using holding up? I bought a few extras just incase of problems.

The only time I had one fail was when I accidentally forgot to hook up the ground lead to the spark plug threaded end on my test rig. It caused large arcs between the coil tower and coil primary connection.

Never had one fail on the actual engine installation.

[Aaron Murakami]

Thanks Aaron and Gary, I already picked up a Flamethrower III now so I should be in good shape. On another note how well have the diodes (Prhv2a-20) you’ve been using holding up? I bought a few extras just incase of problems.

Personally, I've never blown one of those diodes up and they are rock solid.

[RB176]

Thanks Aaron and Gary, I already picked up a Flamethrower III now so I should be in good shape. On another note how well have the diodes (Prhv2a-20) you’ve been using holding up? I bought a few extras just incase of problems.

[Aaron Murakami]

Pertronix claims you need a 3.0 ohm coil for 4 cylinders or less. Place I bought it from said the same thing but there not using it for what we’re doing either. I also have a Pertronix Ignitor I magnetic pickup sensor also. I ran the coil and sensor and it’s working fine. Next step is to hook up msd street fire and diode up. Again my main concern would be either to much resistance and not achieving plasma or burning something up.

The most common coil I have used is the Flame Thrower III https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...SIN=B002Q363XM

3 ohms itself should be an issue. I can make the plasma with a few hundred ohms in the line. However, the coil you have I do not believe is suitable for capacitive discharge but the Flame Thrower III is. See the specs below:


Pertronix Flame Thrower III coils are an ultra low resistance (0.32 ohms) 45,000-volt coil. Thet were engineered to charge to peak current typically 30-70% faster the other coils. This means maximum spark energy is sustained to higher engine RPM. Flame Thrower III coils are compatible with both the Ignitor II and Ignitor III electronics. They are available in both chrome and black finish for that "stock look".
Pertronix Flame-Thrower III Coils Features: 45,000 volts

Ultra Low 0.32 primary resistance
Compatible with Ignitor II and III systems as well as most capacitive discharge boxes.

Charges to peak current typically 30-70% faster than other coils.
Rapid charge time means maximum spark energy is sustained to higher engine RPM
Legal in all 50 states and Canada. (C.A.R.B. E.O. #D-57-10)




If your budget allows it, this coil is a BEAST: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...SIN=B0006302P4

That's what I got for my high voltage N machine experiments. I had it on my Datsun pickup for a while, but I didn't want $200 sitting there looking pretty so I put a Flame Thrower III on it. As a side note, this MSD coil would be incredible for Tesla experiments, getting it into resonance would shoot some serious fire.

It only has 0.016 ohms on the primary!!!

MSD

Red

3

.250 mH

45,000 Volts

2 Amps

.016 OHMs

Coil

30 OHMs

150 uS

70:1

Drag Race / Long Duration Use

3.75 lbs.

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