How to Make a Bedini Crystal Battery

[Retep]

John,

Awesome video on the lead-alum battery conversion.

Everybody Else,

Just so there is no confusion about which alum is being used here. This chemical is AMMONIUM ALUMINUM SULFATE. When you look "alum" up on a search, you mostly run into citations about Potassium Aluminum Sulfate. This is NOT what John is using. He is using the same compound as the kitchen spice.

Here is the McCormick Spice company website at: Alum Read it for yourself.

Enjoy,
Peter

@ All,
In the video, The Alum Video And The Solar Switch.
The most important thing you will ever see, and I mean important. At 38.00 to 41.02 you see the charge curve that curve is liner Lead acid batteries do not do that, and to charge a 5 AmpHr battery if it were lead acid you would be charging all day long. But the Alum battery can and does change it's impedance to allow for quick charging. Then dis-charging it lowers it's impedance to supply current to the load, very important for energy researchers in this field. It's almost as if everything you learned about batteries is backwards. Now, Peter L has pointed out to me tonight that the cooking alum is the aluminum type so this makes the chemistry different once again. Taking a Lead Acid battery off the shelf dry and just adding this chemical you should really have nothing, but you do and you have an energy that has current to it. I leave this to the Researchers in this field as I have seen what and where the energy is coming from. This is an experiment that you in this forum should study, very important with the curves. This video took about 8 Hrs to do just to get an understanding of what is going on.

[Freezer]

Hi Bedini, the solar switch looks great, do you have an idea, on how much you will charge for this? Also, does it have desulfation characteristics, or is it a standard type charge?

[John_Bedini]

In this video Chuck and I took apart a gel lead acid battery to make an Alum Cell the Battery was sitting for 12 years.
We did this to prove it works and can be done with old batteries. Again use safety if you do this and wash your hands after you handle it.
This discussion is taking place on the Energy Science Forum at: http://www.energyscienceforum.com/

Thank you john Bedini

Again I think Slider over on the Earth Lights Forum did the same exact thing except I think he used two of the same plates to do it and it should work the same. So he did it first with proof of concept.

[Lidmotor]

Success with motor cycle battery conversion

@ John, Chuck, and all
I had good success yesterday converting an old motorcycle battery over to the Alum electrolyte. John and Chuck--- the step by step videos you have done really helped. I hooked it up to my 110v LED light last night and it ran all night. My wife doesn't want me to do it again---she said that it was too bright. Today I charged the battery back up and it went up over 11v which is another good sign that it is getting stronger and that this Alum conversion really does work well.

Lidmotor

[John_Bedini]

Lidmotor,
Hope you do not mind I moved your video so it showed up center and that youtub would pick it up.

Anyway, Forgot to say that make sure when washing the insulator out that no bridge shorts are stuck in the paper insulators. And what you can expect with a full charge is about between 1.8 volts to 1.9 volts per cell. That would make the alum cells stand at 10.8 to 11.5 volts depending on the condition. The nice thing about all this is no acid is involved.
I will work on the chemical formula for this. My friend that is a chemist is not talking so I wonder why. I will leave another message for him.

[John_Bedini]

Food Grade Alum+ Lead

@All
This is food grade Alum
Here is the chemical Al2(SO4)3*14H2O
Molar Mass 594.3673 ± 0.0006 g/mol

Mass Composition By Elements (g/mol)

ALuminum 26.98153868 Atomic Weight , Mass Percent 9.0791 % Number of atoms 2

Hydrogen 1.007947 Atomic Weight , Mass Percent 4.7483 % Number of atoms 28

Oxygen 15.99943 Atomic Weight , Mass Percent 69.9879 % Number of atoms 26

Sulfur 32,0655 Atomic Weight , Mass Percent 16.1847 % Number of Atoms 3


Here is Lead+ Acid Pb(S04)

Pb Lead Atomic Weight 207.21 Mass Percent 61.7667 % Number of Atoms 1
Oxcide Red Atoms 3
Oxygen in Red Lead Atoms 4

S Sulfur Atomic Weght 32.0655 Mass Percent 38.2333 % Number of Atoms 4


Ok, so I have come to a conclusion that one chemical is missing to have a very "Valuable Alum Battery" using a Dry Charge Battery So far you can see where the energy is coming from, However I'm looking for more power for very long times. And I'm looking for very fast charge time compared to the lead acid battery. I view everything in differential equations. So I have added information on the chemical and the metal, I have not added in the oxides yet.

[Tom C]

well I will be buying new, Dry batts for this next Alum solution!! soon to be running some bumper boats here...... www.fun-center.com 4 trojan T125 Alum Batteries!! cannot think of a better test bed.

Tom C

[LesK]

Sure wish I had paid more attention in chemistry.....

I started a small motorcycle battery yesterday and am letting it dry out. it may take a day or two.

In the meantime I have a few big AGM batteries They don't look like much in the pictures but they were good until I tried to add water last month. They weigh a ton, So there is a lot of lead in these things.
just been waiting in the wings to experiment with. Some are hooked to the output of my large Ferris Wheel and the others are out in the shed.
I am happy to chop them up for experimenting.


Les

[Howard Wetsman]

Les,
Can you tell us more about your ferris wheel? What you're doing with it, how it's working?
Start another thread if you think that is the right thing to do, but I'd love to hear how it's going.
thanks,
h

[Lidmotor]

Converted motorcycle battery now fully charged and able to run 12v fan

@John & All
The motorcycle battery that I converted to Alum finally charged up to about 11v and is now able to run a 12v fan. I could have used this on my last boat trip when it got hot.

@John B.
Thanks for changing my last video arrangement on the post and please do it again on this one. I don't know how to do that. Once again-- without you and Chuck showing the conversion process in detail ----I would have never gotten into this. Thanks.

Lead-Alum motorcycle battery powering a 12v fan

I need to get something to test the ph in the battery to make sure that it isn't somehow converting back to a lead acid battery. The Alum electrolyte does not seem to burn or corrode anything when I get it on stuff. When it dries out you see the Alum crystals reformed and that is about it. I wish that I could say--- " It tastes just like chicken" but I havn't tried that test and I don't think that I will.

I am now working with linotype lead alloy in test cells that has antimony and some tin mixed in with the lead. Results look good so far.

Lidmotor

[rfnreynders]

Can anyone tell me why a conversion to an Alum battery is so good? What are the advantages over an acid filled battery?
I see the voltage is lower in lidmotors latest video, but that it keeps the voltage up pretty good. So how about the amp draw, charge-ability etc?

thx, rene

[Howard Wetsman]

The biggest advantage that I can see is that you are no longer working with acid. It's a more benign, if not totally benign electrolyte.
h

[John_Bedini]

Rfnreynders,
Go back a page or two and watch the 43 min video then you will know.

Can anyone tell me why a conversion to an Alum battery is so good? What are the advantages over an acid filled battery?
I see the voltage is lower in lidmotors latest video, but that it keeps the voltage up pretty good. So how about the amp draw, charge-ability etc?

thx, rene

[Retep]

Alum Chemistry

Hi John and Everybody,

The chemistry of this situation is very interesting, and there is a lot more to learn. After seeing John's post, above, with the chemical formula, I went and looked again. The McCormick spice site clearly labels the compound as "Ammonium Aluminum Sulfate". When I search for that compound, I get the following information:

Ammonium aluminium sulfate, also known as ammonium alum is a white crystalline double sulfate usually encountered as the dodecahydrate, formula (NH4)Al(SO4)2·12H2O. It is used in small amounts in a variety of niche applications. The dodecahydrate occurs naturally as the rare mineral tschermigite.

Ammonium alum is made from aluminium hydroxide, sulfuric acid and ammonium sulfate. It forms a solid solution with potassium alum. Pyrolysis leaves alumina. Such alumina is used in the production of grinding powders and as precursors to synthetic gems.

These citations are taken from here: Ammonium aluminium sulfate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

However, when we go to the site for General Chemical: General Chemical USA | Alum - Food Grade and look up their citation for "Food Grade Alum" we get the formula that John posted above: Al2(SO4)2-12H2O. Interestingly, they do mention that the compound can include a certain quantity of "ammonium salts" which are allowed and unquantified. The ammonium salt in question would most likely be "ammonium sulfate".

The difference between these two compounds is that the Aluminum Sulfate has two Aluminum ions and the Ammonium Aluminum Sulfate has one Aluminum ion and one Ammonium ion. They both have two Sulfate ions and 12 water molecules associated with them to form the dodecahydrate.

The MSDS Safety Sheets on both compounds suggest that Ammonium Aluminum Sulfate is less toxic than straight Aluminum Sulfate, so it does raise the question.......

What chemical are we actually using here? It seems to me that we have to establish, with a high degree of certainty, what compound we are putting in the batteries before we try to figure out what else is going on in the chemical transformations.

Peter

[rfnreynders]

@John_Bedini

thx i will