Plasma Ignition | Plasma Jet Ignition

[Aaron Murakami]

I never used plasma on the car yet, just the spark prolonger
Car is light weight city type car with 800cc 3 cylinder kettering ignition F8B engine.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maruti_800

But what I noticed when I experimented with bike is that when I hooked up spark prolonger on my bike without plasma, exhaust smell was very much similar to with plasma (very less irritating to eyes and nose)
I did try hooking up spark prolonger and plasma in series on my bike and did not notice any more differences.

Which means it is the next best thing to plasma if not closer without the additional load put on alternator by the plasma inverter.

I may try putting a small inverter on the car to try and replicate plasma on it, but not anytime soon. It requires a lot of effort compared to bike.

1 thing I noticed is that bigger the capacitor on plasma that much better the efficiency becomes but at the expense of spark plug life.

Interesting, it's a Kei Car - Suzuki Alto.

If you have a MSD or CDI module to hook to the car, it should be very simple to hookup - would be identical to how I did it on my Datsun pickup truck.

[firozmusthafa]

I never used plasma on the car yet, just the spark prolonger
Car is light weight city type car with 800cc 3 cylinder kettering ignition F8B engine.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maruti_800

But what I noticed when I experimented with bike is that when I hooked up spark prolonger on my bike without plasma, exhaust smell was very much similar to with plasma (very less irritating to eyes and nose)
I did try hooking up spark prolonger and plasma in series on my bike and did not notice any more differences.

Which means it is the next best thing to plasma if not closer without the additional load put on alternator by the plasma inverter.

I may try putting a small inverter on the car to try and replicate plasma on it, but not anytime soon. It requires a lot of effort compared to bike.

1 thing I noticed is that bigger the capacitor on plasma that much better the efficiency becomes but at the expense of spark plug life.

[heysoundude]

that's one massive inductor. the spark prolonger.

[Aaron Murakami]

Recently I overhauled Suzuki Maruti F8B 800cc 3 cylinder engine running on contact points distributor ignition system. Along with overhaul, I did some of changes including increasing compression ratio from 8.8 to 10.4 by shaving engine head by 1.26mm, power lynz https://youtu.be/vT7kdwbEG8s
, power ringz on the back of intake valves, and later on spark duration enhancer made exactly as per the patent and used non resistor plugs along with it.

https://patents.google.com/patent/US3939814A/en

This improved engine response really so much and solved all vibration issues inherent with F8B engine.
There is noticeable power difference about 30 percent difference in acceleration time in all engine rpms. Engine cranks to life in half a turn and is smooth at all rpm

Due to increased torque, to improve fuel consumption and to save tires from wearing prematurely I tried reducing carburetor secondary pilot jet from 92.5 to 90 and secondary main jet from 175 to 150
No one could identify difference in power compared to stock after reducing the carburetor jets. In fact, even with reduced fuel, engine is eager to accelerate at all rpms. Without spark duration enhancer, engine struggled to climb speed after 80kmph, now after this mod, there is no problem for the engine to club speed upto 100kmph (we don't drive that fast, keeps speeds less that 70kmph since the car is 25 years old)

Fuel economy prior to overhaul was 9 to 12kmpl prior to modification. Right now its in the range of 20 to 30kmpl depending on driving condition.

Peter Lindemann told me about Bergstressor's spark prolonger quite a while back and I built one but have very little experiments with it to mention. Looking forward to your progress. I never used it together with the plasma in any experiments that I can recall. Are you using the plasma ignition still when you removed the spark duration enhancer?

Just realized you are using this on a car - what kind? That is quite an increase over double!

[firozmusthafa]

Recently I overhauled Suzuki Maruti F8B 800cc 3 cylinder engine running on contact points distributor ignition system. Along with overhaul, I did some of changes including increasing compression ratio from 8.8 to 10.4 by shaving engine head by 1.26mm, power lynz https://youtu.be/vT7kdwbEG8s
, power ringz on the back of intake valves, and later on spark duration enhancer made exactly as per the patent and used non resistor plugs along with it.

https://patents.google.com/patent/US3939814A/en

This improved engine response really so much and solved all vibration issues inherent with F8B engine.
There is noticeable power difference about 30 percent difference in acceleration time in all engine rpms. Engine cranks to life in half a turn and is smooth at all rpm

Due to increased torque, to improve fuel consumption and to save tires from wearing prematurely I tried reducing carburetor secondary pilot jet from 92.5 to 90 and secondary main jet from 175 to 150
No one could identify difference in power compared to stock after reducing the carburetor jets. In fact, even with reduced fuel, engine is eager to accelerate at all rpms. Without spark duration enhancer, engine struggled to climb speed after 80kmph, now after this mod, there is no problem for the engine to club speed upto 100kmph (we don't drive that fast, keeps speeds less that 70kmph since the car is 25 years old)

Fuel economy prior to overhaul was 9 to 12kmpl prior to modification. Right now its in the range of 20 to 30kmpl depending on driving condition.

[heysoundude]

came across this article with some interesting notes about capacitance and current that have clarified things for me:

https://mgaguru.com/mgtech/ignition/pdf/winterburn_article.pdf

[Aaron Murakami]

which is the more modern design? how do they differ? Can you determine what size the capacitor in the Accel box is?
while Aaron's version is proven with the MSD box, I wonder if that may have been surpassed by more modern technology.

Holley pretty much owns all those companies I believe...last 10 years seems they bought them all up.

Street Fire is MSD's budget brand. It's 89mJ - a bit on the weaker size but in a way preferrable for longer lasting plugs, which isn't ultra long compared to non plasma use. I've never not been able to get the Street Fire module to work and all the ones I've used are still working fine. Have never fried one yet.

I haven't read the reviews on Amazon for the Street Fire so not sure what issues people could have. For the plasma purpose, it works perfect I think.

Accel and the other brands are good quality too, I haven't tried them but no reason they don't work. I've never had a need to use any other.

All their circuits will be fairly similar - the trigger turns on an SCR to complete circuit from the ground of the cap to the ground of the ignition coil primary. They rarely do anything different from that.

Someone did fry a Street Fire unit somehow and sent it to me to look at. I have no idea what went wrong with it, but I do kind of recall that the cap used inside was a WIMA cap, which is one of the very best you can have for high speed pulse applications so that was a very good sign.

The only modules I had go bad was a used DIS-2 MSD module for distributor-less ignition systems. I had to use 2 of them together to make it work on the 1998 Subaru Legacy GT with a EJ-25 engine. It's a wasted spark ignition system. One unit was new and one was used - not sure what happened, but it was the first time ever that plasma ignition was put on a car where two sides of the coil pack are normally opposite polarity so makes it nearly impossible so I made all polarities the same by using two coil packs in series. Then I needed two of those DIS-2 units - wasn't happy about those as they cost nearly $700 each brand new - something like that.

[heysoundude]

which is the more modern design? how do they differ? Can you determine what size the capacitor in the Accel box is?
while Aaron's version is proven with the MSD box, I wonder if that may have been surpassed by more modern technology.

[fresh1]

Which cheap CDI has best longevity?

Hey guys,
I'm the greenhorn here and haven't got through reading all the previous
pages of this thread yet, (only got to pg36 so far) so my apologies in
advance if this has been discussed earlier.

Just wondering if anyone has had issues with the MSD StreetFire CDI 5520
after 2+years of daily use?
I am considering buying either a MSD 5520 or a Accel 61212 SuperBox CDI,
but some of the reviews on Amazon for the 5520 have me concerned.
For a noob like me, the Accel looks more appealing for what I learned about
it and I haven't found negative reviews about it so far.
Anyone feel free to give advice about any pros/cons with those 2.
The engine to be used with it is a 1989 Chevy 350 with stock ignition coil.

Any suggestions would be appreciated!

Thx

[firozmusthafa]

I have no doubt about it. If champion plug used to modify is made for turbo charged application, it would surely hold up.
I noticed champion plugs are less quality than ngk which is why it allows us to do these mods.
Even then champion quality is acceptable for our use.

Just have to be careful before buying a champion, not all their plugs have removable resistors inside it. Some of them are fused ceramic resistors which is impossible to modify. If you are lucky, you can get resistor less version which saves all the trouble.
There are different models built with same dimensions.

If lean burn is the target, then high ignition voltage is required especially to fire them under high boost. This will become more obvious when trying to start engine when cold in high compression cylinder head.
Anything that vaporizes fuel better significantly increases lean burn limit as per my experiments and astronomically amplifies plasma effects (this is beyond what I was able to imagine prior to my experimental findings)

Not that plasma won't grow in high pressure, it needs high voltage first to initiate the low resistance ionized arc for the plasma burst to propagate, I tested this theory by lowering ignition primary voltage by 10volts and understood that plasma too requires higher voltage to initiate under high pressure.

[Aaron Murakami]

Unfortunately I haven't had a chance to experiment with other types. But I might try it out in future.

What I noticed is champion plug with ground electrode removed and removable resistor lasts more than TM plugs, which is not only cheaper and easier to obtain but also gives more gap than TM plug.

Champion plugs are easier to modify as well. So I am looking at ways to build firestorm with champion plugs. Only thing preventing me is the skill set / resources required to do fine welding.
Plasma welders are very rare in my area.

Firoz, here is how to build the Firestorm plug - this doc was put together by Ash from Panacea in Australia years ago based on a lot of collaboration that came through my Energeticforum.com:

http://emediapress.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/howtomakeplasmaplugs.pdf

Do you think the champion plug with the removed strap and resistor would work well in an turbocharged automobile engine? Early on, quite a few people were doing the same mod. I never did, I just bought off the shelf non-resistor NGK plugs mostly.

[firozmusthafa]

Unfortunately I haven't had a chance to experiment with other types. But I might try it out in future.

What I noticed is champion plug with ground electrode removed and removable resistor lasts more than TM plugs, which is not only cheaper and easier to obtain but also gives more gap than TM plug.

Champion plugs are easier to modify as well. So I am looking at ways to build firestorm with champion plugs. Only thing preventing me is the skill set / resources required to do fine welding.
Plasma welders are very rare in my area.

[Aaron Murakami]

Hi Aaron,

I am using motorcycle series TM plug which measures just about 0.2 ohm in my fluke multimeter

Thanks,
Firoz

Thanks Firoz,

Have you experimented with the two automobile types? Original Type or Star Series Type

[firozmusthafa]

Hi Aaron,

I am using motorcycle series TM plug which measures just about 0.2 ohm in my fluke multimeter

Thanks,
Firoz

[Aaron Murakami]

Hi Firoz,

Which TM plugs are you using?

Original Type, Star Series Type, or the surface gap Motorcycle Series?

And how many ohms is your plug?

I tried power ringz on intake valve of my carbureted motorcycle. It unlocked another 30% of torque and power.
Mileage testing going on with aggressive driving conditions.

Benefits of both power lynz and power ringz are noticeable when engine heats up. Once the engine is hot, it really feels like race mode is on. Without any changes in carburetor, the valve mod alone bumped up idle by 600rpm. Moreover, it allows engine to idle at 700rpm (when cold) and 1000rpm(when hot) previously it would struggle to idle at 1000rpm (when cold) and 1400rpm (when hot)

Even in steep incline, there is no struggle to overtake a 4 cylinder sedan car in 5th gear at speeds of 40+kmph (previously impossible). This clearly shows the terrific improvement with this mod.

Exhaust gas temperature has dropped by 70 degree Celsius and zero detonation. It is the combination of power lynz, power ringz and high compression singh groove together worked synergistically to bring about so much of difference.

I really wish if my bike had an additional gear (yes, even overgearing is not enough) to convert the newly created torque to fuel economy.

Followed the valve mod exactly like in the patent. I never expected anything like this, I just tried it out to see how it would behave, to my surprise I am shocked!

I still run plasma with TM plugs (still going strong with 8000+kms @1uf discharge)

First time I feel completely satisfied with my engine performance.
Highly recommend this combination!