Plasma Ignition | Plasma Jet Ignition

[Faraday88]

Thank you very much.

You are welcome Hellenic Vanagon... always keep up with the Spirit of Scientific query!!
Rgds,
Faraday88.

[Hellenic Vanagon]

You have essentially stumbled with a lucky tweaking about the coil (auxillary) in the way it is internally wound...yes it is Capacitor equivalent in a sense!!

Rgds,
Faraday88

Thank you very much.

[Faraday88]

Τhank you.

In my applied research now arising a lot of questions:

#1 Is really the current doubled that way? On the bench experiments the sound level and the pitch become more intense connecting the auxiliary coil, feeding the standard gap, whichever it is. Yes, This is a kind of the Radiant Amplification i feel something like what happens in a Lightning discharge.. no one can predict what instance the lightning discharge is Series or Parallel Resonant or are they both happening simultaneously asymmetrically ?? one thing is for sure A lightning discharge is COP>> 1 Mechanism which means the Energy released is much higher than what is involved in 'Separating' the Charges!

#2 How well this can be handled by the distributor? A Bosch, small cap, distributor handles up to 30.000 V but nowhere is a reference about the Amperage, so it must be minuscule with the standard configuration, which, in the case of a vw digifant engine, has a triggering of up to 7A, but seems that never is reached and it is there to give a safety margin. yes its a over kill!

#3 The digifant ECU demands a coil of 0.5 Ω ~ 0.8 Ω. Paralleling the two coils I have, which are 0.8 Ω, the resistance is halved to 0.4 Ω. Is this really dangerous for the ECU or it is within the safety limits? Look!, when you use CDI or the Plasma Ignition the lower the primary impedance the better it is..you can infact have several primaries in parallel magnetically coupled in the ignition coil to get incredible boost!

#4 What will happen to the coils, since the discharge path for the auxiliary is not the supposed. (This point is beyond of my understanding: when the low voltage ECU's circuit is shot dead by the high voltage, why nothing is burned? Is it protected somehow?). Anyway, in the case of the Lucas "continuous power supply system", everywhere is stressed that the twin coils are of a conventional design and nothing special exists about them. The primary side is 'Protected' to a certain the level but seriously speaking the kick back by mutual Inductance can be dangerous for the ECU. there is no know method to predict the Radiant mode of damage that can result in such situation.

Another unexpected factor is that when I constructed my plasma module , just by accident, I gave this solution using an Audi v6 coil in the position of the capacitor, which works, perfectly, for several months now, giving no signs of internal damage.

You have essentially stumbled with a lucky tweaking about the coil (auxillary) in the way it is internally wound...yes it is Capacitor equivalent in a sense!!

Rgds,
Faraday88

[Hellenic Vanagon]

Hi Hellenic Vanagon,
Good collection though! these archival facts form essential documentation for research purpose nonetheless !!
Rgds,
Faraday88.

Τhank you.

In my applied research now arising a lot of questions:

#1 Is really the current doubled that way? On the bench experiments the sound level and the pitch become more intense connecting the auxiliary coil, feeding the standard gap, whichever it is.

#2 How well this can be handled by the distributor? A Bosch, small cap, distributor handles up to 30.000 V but nowhere is a reference about the Amperage, so it must be minuscule with the standard configuration, which, in the case of a vw digifant engine, has a triggering of up to 7A, but seems that never is reached and it is there to give a safety margin.

#3 The digifant ECU demands a coil of 0.5 Ω ~ 0.8 Ω. Paralleling the two coils I have, which are 0.8 Ω, the resistance is halved to 0.4 Ω. Is this really dangerous for the ECU or it is within the safety limits?

#4 What will happen to the coils, since the discharge path for the auxiliary is not the supposed. (This point is beyond of my understanding: when the low voltage ECU's circuit is shot dead by the high voltage, why nothing is burned? Is it protected somehow?). Anyway, in the case of the Lucas "continuous power supply system", everywhere is stressed that the twin coils are of a conventional design and nothing special exists about them.

Another unexpected factor is that when I constructed my plasma module , just by accident, I gave this solution using an Audi v6 coil in the position of the capacitor, which works, perfectly, for several months now, giving no signs of internal damage.

[Faraday88]

Yes, exactly the primaries are in parallel and there is no direct connection of the secondaries.

It seems that this is done on purpose, (of course), since if the coils are not matched, (and how this can be done under the circumstances of the massive, (even limited), production of a car), there is a possibility, connecting the secondaries, that the one coil discharges into the other disturbing the total operation.

By connecting only the primaries this possibility is eliminated and all the power of the auxiliary coil is always available properly.

On the other hand, Jag's enthusiasts say that this double coil Lucas system is(was) the best for the v12 engine, since there is a continuous flow of power for all 12 cylinders vs the next, divided, 2x6 ignition, where, when the one bank was misfiring the other worked and the final result was an engine fire.

Hi Hellenic Vanagon,
Good collection though! these archival facts form essential documentation for research purpose nonetheless !!
Rgds,
Faraday88.

[rokan]

Honda Fuel MPG

Ron - the EFIE needs to be adjusted to your application; that said, if you poke around on the Eagle Research website, you'll find that there is a good range to start your adjusting. Did you watch George's video? https://youtu.be/zGXxXM_lzAQ

Yes, I watched it a while back, I'll have to review it again.
But also what I have seen mentioned is that specific strength magnets are needed because to strong or to weak will not work well? I also have seen mentioned that pole orientation makes a big difference, that is why I am asking what kind of magnets you used and what their strength was and how you have them oriented on the fuel hose?

Also, did you make your own additive mixture or was it over the counter?

Thanks again,
Ron

[Hellenic Vanagon]

The article in general speaks 'paralleling' the coils but doesn't go in depth of how exactly... in my opinion, the auxiliary coil who's output (socket) is shut is more under stress and eventually will aware out due to the preferential path of the discharge happening through it! (combined stress of both the coils) only the primaries are in parallel..
Rgds,
Faraday88.

Yes, exactly the primaries are in parallel and there is no direct connection of the secondaries.

It seems that this is done on purpose, (of course), since if the coils are not matched, (and how this can be done under the circumstances of the massive, (even limited), production of a car), there is a possibility, connecting the secondaries, that the one coil discharges into the other disturbing the total operation.

By connecting only the primaries this possibility is eliminated and all the power of the auxiliary coil is always available properly.

On the other hand, Jag's enthusiasts say that this double coil Lucas system is(was) the best for the v12 engine, since there is a continuous flow of power for all 12 cylinders vs the next, divided, 2x6 ignition, where, when the one bank was misfiring the other worked and the final result was an engine fire.

[Faraday88]

An '80s solution:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Ge1...ew?usp=sharing

For the moment, works perfectly, covering the area above the 4000 rpm.

To see the thumbnail better, click the link, (google drive).

The article in general speaks 'paralleling' the coils but doesn't go in depth of how exactly... in my opinion, the auxiliary coil who's output (socket) is shut is more under stress and eventually will aware out due to the preferential path of the discharge happening through it! (combined stress of both the coils) only the primaries are in parallel..
Rgds,
Faraday88.

[Hellenic Vanagon]

My next step is to connect two ignition coils in, primary, parallel or anti-parallel scheme.

It looks promising but it poses an overload on the triggering unit which may be, I am afraid, fatal, (for the unit).

My first experiments, on the bench, give impressive results.

An '80s solution:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Ge1...ew?usp=sharing

For the moment, works perfectly, covering the area above the 4000 rpm.

To see the thumbnail better, click the link, (google drive).

[heysoundude]

I'm curious Aaron what kind of magnets were you using, how were they configured on the fuel line, what strength were they and what kind of additive did you use? Because I have tried all of those things and never got any gains that were worth speaking of?? I was also using an EFIE circuit, do you remember your circuit voltage settings for the offset the EFIE was putting in the computer?
Thanks,
Ron

Ron - the EFIE needs to be adjusted to your application; that said, if you poke around on the Eagle Research website, you'll find that there is a good range to start your adjusting. Did you watch George's video? https://youtu.be/zGXxXM_lzAQ

[rokan]

I'm curious Aaron what kind of magnets were you using, how were they configured on the fuel line, what strength were they and what kind of additive did you use? Because I have tried all of those things and never got any gains that were worth speaking of?? I was also using an EFIE circuit, do you remember your circuit voltage settings for the offset the EFIE was putting in the computer?
Thanks,
Ron

[Faraday88]

No, the electro-chemistry involved in the actual combustion process is sped up.

The plasma doesn't cause the ignition even to happen sooner, it will happen whenever the timing tells the ignition to fire but because the combustion chemistry happens faster, the timing can be delayed closer to TDC.

Yes, the plasma causes the energy to be delivered faster, which compresses the same energy in time meaning the power of the ignition is cranked up through the roof.

Aaron,
'Plasma-Chemistry' will be a better term to it..
Rgds,
Faraday88.

[heysoundude]

Thank you.

most welcome!

[heysoundude]

No, the electro-chemistry involved in the actual combustion process is sped up.

The plasma doesn't cause the ignition even to happen sooner, it will happen whenever the timing tells the ignition to fire but because the combustion chemistry happens faster, the timing can be delayed closer to TDC.

Yes, the plasma causes the energy to be delivered faster, which compresses the same energy in time meaning the power of the ignition is cranked up through the roof.

so "combustion happens faster at closer to TDC because the charge is more compressed" is how I'm understanding it...and yeah, the results would be remarkable.

[rokan]

Street Fire

Hi Ron,

As you mentioned in the emails there isn't a MSD type unit specific to the 2RZFE. However, many units like the budget MSD model Street Fire is universal and can be used on most 4, 6 or 8 cylinder engines as can the other MSD units. Very few are engine specific but are for a general type of engine. Dis-2 or 4 or whatever I used in my Subaru are for distributorless, the Street Fire can be used for points or electronic ignition that use a autotransformer coil with normal primary inputs and a high voltage output, etc.

The cap you mention isn't needed because if you can hook up a CDI/MSD to your engine, the cap in that unit gets discharged into the primary of your ignition coil so you have a corresponding stepup in the high voltage output that increases. So instead of 12 volts going to the primary, you'll have 400-500 volts to the primary from a low capacitance capacitor. The Street Fire unit has 89 milijoules per discharge I believe and you can find up to the 135-150 range or so.

Can you post a picture of your ignition coil and the cables that connect to the plugs?

Hi Aaron,
I now have my Street Fire unit and am ready to do the final hookup!
If you can fill me in on the rest of the hookup pointers I will greatly appreciate it!
Happy 4th of july!

Thanks,
Ron