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Water Spark To Hydrogen And Water Vapor Pressure Ran Engines 2005-2008

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  • Water Spark To Hydrogen And Water Vapor Pressure Ran Engines 2005-2008

    This is more clarification for those still interested in the S1R9A9M9 YOUTUBE mower engine conversion of water in carb as was done in 2008. The website Yahoo Groups waterFuel1978 data typed was by Nathren himself (the father) while his son was much more technical minded than him. The son had same name Nathren. The web forum data was signed Sir for the father, and Nathren for the son's data. Simple adjustable brass valve was not used for water line in that back yard test. The 2 people just squeezed the tubing for the amount of water flow to be allowed. The water upside down water bottle had loose cap so as air can bubble upward into bottle as the water flowed downward. LOW amount of water must be allowed to be pulled in by the vacuum of engine at carb top. (So engine not fowl the plug) The idling engine ran on electrolysis for hydrogen gas at spark plug in combustion chamber, aided by water vapor pressure same time. The EGR was not applied as per the previous car engines done, but was supposed to be added with adjustable valve. (Air compressed into water is is 78% Nitrogen aids engine efficiency) The 18HP Briggs engine normally used 4000 ohm resistive spark plug. It has LONG REACH threads that screws in to threaded hole. Nathren and 3 technicians in Georgia only found spark plug of 125 ohms - same threads. At that time they did not know about Champion spark plugs that can come apart. They could not make engine run on 5amps dc since 12-14 volts could not push current through a high value resistance. That's why circuit had added a triple S1R9A9M9 magnetic coils assembly that provided several uses the same time. (#1) magnetic field over plug BARE #12 copper 5 turns with 21 SPECIAL insulated turns extends spark time to late negative 38 degrees. (#2) 5 amps DC average on hand meter is Peak 10 amps DC current on oscilloscope - same amps for field also as going through spark plug . (#3) Timing change done different way since Briggs ignition coil Magnetron is not adjustable as on older car engines turning the distributor. (4) The use of Ohms law E = I X R says can't pass 5 amps through 125 ohms with about 14 volts. About 63 volts required that's not normally available. The wire for high voltage passing through the S1R coils was only bare copper wire. The insulated low voltage wire was SPECIAL wrapped over it. There was cross leakage inductance of higher voltage induced in the low side. This is how the current passed through the spark plug at higher superimposed pressure voltage. At that time they did not know that you could remove resistor from top of a long reach Champion plug and replace it with copper segment, and form a zero ohms plug, or RACING spark plug. Farther down the line, the two output wires go together to plug top. There is a magnetic field present at combustion chamber that aids the process. 7 A peak through 1-2 wire inductor coils in relay provides magnetic field transferred to plug gap. On Briggs engine there is a magnetic field from Sir coils with possible relay inductors also, as the dimensions fit inside the plastic tub. There is a "return ground" wire present so as low volts does not return through the casting of engine, as the high volts does. See in video the extension cord "Y" that connects as very long wire from under spark plug to side of plastic tub on side of engine. The separate return line was used on all car conversions with the 400w inverter box. Time in micro/milliseconds is saved by this method and less ohms resistance. Engine started on 12 battery, then battery removed. Engine ran on the under flywheel alternator and DC from diode(s) half wave or full wave DC. The quick positive engine demonstrations Videos 1+2, did not have ANY preventive safety measures as the 10KV was across the battery and dangerous for acid explosion only when battery connected to starter motor. After several non tech people got hurt by acid or burnt shorted wires, they changed the written data on web site so as a duplication wouldn't work . The 3rd video on back porch engine test did not have wire of 5 amps connected to spark plug. The other Youtube videos of "The Smack" testing same engine at Nathren's property also did not have 5 amps wire hooked to spark plug top, but to an alternate resistance load as fan motor. On the first running engine video you can see the 3 power wires coming down from the upper cowl into the plastic tub on side of engine. The heat of the 2008 summer, the heat of engine, had melted the spiral black electrical tape glue so as the heavy tub slides downward, exposing the upper power wires. The S1R coils are in the tub along with other parts such as required accessory spark gap . Nathren's, and tech friends invention was shown working , running on water, but he neglected to say it was self running from the 12 +1 MAGNETS under the spinning flywheel . (The Plus red cable from battery was removed.) That Briggs 18HP had "dual" alternators as originally for one side for 5A for riding mower AC headlights, and 4 A for battery charging. They can be put together for higher amps out, up to 16 amps Full Wave DC, idle speed. Web site shut down. Most of the tech data was on the car conversions using one relay of dual 1.5MH coils per cylinder using the 400W DC to 115vAC inverter source power with one diode output. The 15 relays they had were obsolete- non purchasable . That's why the S1R triple coils was the replacement and using 12v DC instead. See my other messages for other data. There are several US Patents on superimposing 2 power sources together. I use a made up Power supply of ISOLATED secondary side from China 20Khz Inverter open board with voltage doubler , so as the 2 grounds do not interfere. You cannot use the common dc to dc step up voltage converters sold, as it uses 2 of same ground.- non isolated. My set up is about 38V DC , because you need protection from High V., and there are voltage drop losses in series, with resistors + series diode bank , leaving about 20 volts to spark plug for the in series current flow. You could also use Power On Board 500W inverter box so as getting the secondary side transformer wire gauge as handling 6.5 amps, then hooking to SCR controlled adjustable AC voltage reducer with meter, to get about 38v DC after the following rectifier or diode, assuming the plug is zero ohms. The green box 400w 115vAC Power On board brand, is what the technicians used in the shop in Georgia 2008 with the "worth their weight in gold" vacuumed sealed AC 60cycles traffic signals switching relays used in pole boxes that allowed smooth running of car engines. Their Inverter they tested could not be used with the S1R coils assembly on mower engine, as it will bog down and quit, most likely from the coils leakage inductance interfering with box. They should of made the coils assembly right the first time with all insulation + proper plug, and proper protection including fuses. The box inverter or triple coils assembly will work due to the expected 38% only duty cycle of on time as flywheel goes around to fire again. The Inverter boxes have a Peak double value wattage usable , but only for very short time such as start mode, but can use a short duty cycle as not on 100% of the time. Nathren had said there was a 1 HP loss for every 6HP of an engine, and they run at a lower RPM. THE 1978 Elcamino was on 18 miles per gallon only stream mineral water at highway speeds, PLUS the required EGR usage, at 6-7 amps Peak 3.5 A average current, because of the 50% duty cycle after diode from Inverter box. That "Wife's" car was in security garage locked up, he was hassled and shot at by thugs, arrested once, and wife divorced him, and Web site, and property address no longer any good. How many people are trying to duplicate this spark plug electrolysis that also generates water vapor pressure same time at -34 degrees late timing past TDC?? See again his S1R9A9M9 first two Youtube videos of 18HP Briggs mower engine running idle speed on plain water in carburetor. It actually sounds like a water pump! A car alternator can be belted to the crankshaft for power output.

  • #2
    The S1R9A9M9 triple coils assembly had several purposes same time. The magnetic field of 10A peak, 5A average DC causes the required time extension of spark so as water has more contact with it. It was not a step up or step-down transformer. The ignition coil on Briggs mower is called a Magnetron as it has an embedded SS trigger switch. Mowers are negative spark with positive ground. That means the spark jumps upward from metal casting to center of plug. An autotransformer with 3 leads requires a ground wire for primary. The spark would never work, as it would bypass plug and go up the side wire. That means S1r coils is just a type of electromagnet only, with end wire hooked to the negative high volts at top of plug. No adjustment of Briggs timing. Therefore, since old car engine could have distributor turned for timing change, Nathren used coils for that purpose. The cars conversions had inductance about 1.5MHenry for high volts line that also contributed to extended timing. So as the Briggs 18HP had RELAY in the plastic tub on side of engine as it dimension-ally fits. The same amps for magnetic field over plug wire also goes THROUGH spark plug. Electrolysis at plug tip electrodes for small Hydrogen is supplemented with water vapor pressure to move piston. The inductors provide also a required magnetic field at plug tips. The cars conversion has 400W 110vAC inverter box and output diode 50% duty cycle on time, while the Briggs alternators AC output to DC with diode or bridge rectification are outputting Pulsing on + off DC power at 50% duty cycle or full wave Bridge DC which has more power. The Briggs engine DUAL ALTERNATORS at low cranking speed has no output. The 12v battery ran circuit until engine was at idle RPM so as alternator would run circuit. Then battery was removed. It has 5-14.5 A capability at idle. The ohms resistance of circuit was in series as about .7-ohm MH coil, and voltage drops of the diodes for the formula I = E / R reduces the 12v battery. His car and mower engine conversions had 2-3 spark gaps in series. This kept the plugs firing, as not fouled with water. Do you understand all this?? The Champion plug comes apart so as resistor can be removed for zero ohms so as current can pass through spark plug. *****And there is a reason for the S1R coils having bare copper wire for the high volts cable section that bothered many other people over time. It has to do with GETTING cross - leakage inductance, so as there is a higher LOW volts to push the amps to plug, since plug was Champion YC12Yc 125 ohms, not zero ohms. They did not know it could come apart. The superimposed high volts over the 12v DC line allowed the higher push to get through the 125 ohms. Back to Ohms law E = I times R. Is the YouTube S1R9A9M9 Briggs water engine videos making more sense now?? The tech web site is shut down. The S1R coils copper insulated wiring came from chassis #16 gauge wiring of a riding lawn mower. Nathren's son used oscilloscope to get current reading peak of spark plug amps. Average current is about 1/2 peak amps as on a common hand meter. Put that in your pipe and smoke it. Questions?
    Last edited by russwr; 07-25-2023, 02:04 PM.

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    • #3
      Today I tried to replicate small test as described in the tech literature of S1R9A9M9 from 2008. The web forum had page regarding a side leakage inductance of wire coil wrappings that would reduce current flow on meter in 60 turns, by inducing a reactance ohms in the low voltage line, from the high voltage line. (increasing ohms) It was called "The 60 Turns Coils test".I varied the insulated high volts wire to bare copper wire. I varied the end connections for polarity of the outer coil as matching turns direction. I used a steel bolt core inside plastic tube with the 2 types ignition wire and then the 60 turns insulated wire from car battery. I had added 7kv diodes in series to protect the battery from the 6kv ignition. When repeatedly pushing the ignition single firing button switch, the amp gauge value never changed with all different adjustments. I suspect now, that the analog with needle panel current meter would not register the fast ignition impulse as impressed on the adjacent wires. A small China $35 battery/AC operated oscilloscope from E bay should be used with one ohm resistor on the GROUND side of the current line returning back to the power source. Ohms law says the volts read over resistor is the actual pulse current since I = E/ 1. The Georgia 3 technicians back about 2008 did have an oscilloscope for use.The ignition pulse returns through engine casting for ground and not interfering on the ground side to the 2nd power source. I don't doubt there was a higher volts transfer from one side to the other, since other people who did the test, had held the 2 wires wires and got shocked before.This was assuming the triple coils assembly of 2008, on the mower engine running on water in carburetor, Nathren needed the higher volts due to the spark plug being 125 ohms and can't get 10 amps to go through with just car battery. The superimposed volts over 1000 would push the 10 amps through the spark plug. Because of these negative tests I did, , it is now still possible of the bare ignition wire used to insure proper spark plug firing with the added 10 amps current. They may not of known in 2008 that Champion plugs can have the resistor removed and replaced with copper segment. The larger Briggs engines require LONG REACH Threads type plugs while smaller ones are short reach and have readily available zero ohms spark plugs. He probably , back then, could only get Champion QC12YC as long reach 125ohm instead of 4000ohms regular plug. My current series circuit can have the same resistance values without having to change them to get unchanging 6 amps. All his previous car engines had ran on 6-7 amps. In the original message board article from 2008, 20 amps on meter was reduced to 12 amps to same resistance load when cross firing was done for an experiment The only difference was, I used separate resistor for load to ground, as was done in the original 60turns test, rather than firing the amps through spark plug- AS WAS DONE IN THE S1R9A9M9 2008 You tube videos of running self powered engine of Hydrogen gas and water vapor pressure. There are voltage drops in series from my beginning 38V DC so as about 20v is left for the spark plug. My query at this time is whether to use half wave DC or Full wave DC. Both earlier conversions, cars + Briggs 18HP, had used half wave dc , as there is an off time 50% duty cycle, to make usage of the Back EMF from inductor inside relay greater than 100v.The 2008 videos had car battery 12v for starting, battery removed, then switched to alternator DC about 12-18v DC. He neglected to say it was self running . Most likely since all earlier car conversions had used certain dual coil relay sealed in vacuum per cylinder, that one was also used with the Brigg 18HP mower engine because it also fits inside the plastic deli tub on side of engine, and INDUCTORS ARE REQUIRED also . See videos again. The AI computer answered my question recently and gave a worked formula to get a back EMF of 100v from inductor with parallel diode to circuit output using 1.5MH inductor coil, 20volts, and 6 amps at fast discharge of 11 milliseconds. Inductor is also in High voltage line. This is ALSO as circuit published that was used in the car engine conversions based on speed of only INDUCTIVE TYPE ignition firing of spark plug. (The tiny electrodes of plugs may require much higher volts for common electrolysis to get sufficient Hydrogen WITH the accompanied vapor pressure to push pistons.)
      Last edited by russwr; 07-25-2023, 02:05 PM.

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      • #4
        It was called "The 60 Turns Coil Test". I suspect now, that the analog with needle panel current meter would not register the fast ignition impulse as impressed on the adjacent wires. A small, open board type, China $35 battery operated with optional AC supply oscilloscope from E bay DSO 138 as "welded/ completed " ready to use, should be used with one ohm resistor on the GROUND side of the current line returning back to the power source. Ohms law says the volts read over resistor is the actual pulse current since I = E/ 1. The Georgia 3 technicians back about 2008 did have an old oscilloscope for use.The ignition pulse returns through engine casting for ground and not interfering on the ground side back to the 2nd power source. There would be interference and possible damage, if scope resistance probe was used on the same side as the high voltage .

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        • #5
          Notes regarding the back EMF spike higher volts for the S1R9A9M9 engine to water in carb conversion.--

          After considerable time with calculator , formulas, parts values, I have been unable to verify being able to obtain minimum 100 volts back EMF to superimpose on the circuit low 38v DC. The tech web site had mentioned several times a 6-7Amps and 100v was necessary for the circuit. Therefore, the result is that half wave DC is not required as power source to make usage of the off time for the extra time space, for the volts forward.( They may have only just meant the DC to AC Inverter box power as 100v) Both car conversions and the Briggs mower engine had ran on half wave DC. Also Briggs starting mode had used 12v battery, then removed. E volts = L Henries X I Amps / t spark time in second as extended. 2 Inductor coils in series was .003Henry. The needed value came out as 180 microseconds as too fast. (not about 28 milliseconds with time extension) Timing on car engines started at late minus 34 degrees plus the inductor in High V line. The Briggs timing started at zero degrees and extended to about minus 34 degrees plus the coils inductance. At that point the Hydrogen was formed, fired, and water vapor pressure was generated that contributed to piston pressure. I built 3 different ISOLATED power supplies for upcoming bench tests. They will be all changed over now to Full Wave DC that is more energy efficient. The special relay that was used back then that contained the 2 coils in vacuum, can be seen as drawing on internet as original hand drawing by Nathren's son and also computer generated red/black/blue circuit as same thing. No back EMF volts addition is available to main circuit conversion.

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          • #6
            AI computer says the engine spark on time is different (LESS) for 6000RPM as compared with idling 700 RPM. The regular Briggs mower engine Magnetron fires about .27 Milliseconds as about 10 degrees of flywheel rotation of 6000rpm. There may be confusion on my part, as regarding length of spark time, from normal Briggs Zero to continuance of spark such as to degrees to negative minus 34 degrees ATDC, and then some. Some engines start at BEFORE TDC but the Georgia AUTO engines conversions had timing start at about negative - 34 degrees ATDC PLUS the time lag due, to the 1.5MH inductor in series with the 10kv ignition. This allowed slightly more contact time of pulse current with the water at spark plug gap according to the forum tech data. (More Hydrogen formed) The high volts plasma path initiates electrolysis for the 6-7 amps,and then reduces in voltage as idling running engine. The S1R9A9M9 triple wires elecromagnet 6-7 amp coil magnetic field over the spark plug cable causes an extension of spark time, plus inductor time. This was to simulate timing as ATDC, since mower engine ignition coils are stationary, with firing start at zero, while the older car engines had adjustable distributor for any timing change and also -34 degrees to start. There was no exact data given on the Briggs spark time with the electromagnet field. The regular plug cable hooked to section of bare 5 turns copper wire under the field stress, before going to spark plug.This did cause spark time extension to some point. Oscilloscope test would be required.Their scope data was not given to us. Half wave DC Isolated power supply could possibly still be used, as they did, in conjunction with the dual inductors - as was in the original relays per cylinder. 1.5+1.5 = 3Millihenries as both together in series with low volts, and just one 1.5MH in series was with the high volts. . The assumption was that since cars used -34 degrees , then the Briggs should be in that range also, as being a 4 stroke engine.

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            • #7
              A successful conversion of a small mower engine to run on water in carburetor, is based on several actions at the same time. The ignition type has to be inductive ignition, not capacitor discharge ignition. This means the amps flowing through the spark plug must be from a DC power supply. The speed of CDI is too fast for proper contact with water molecules to MAKE hydrogen gas and water vapor pressure. The current has to be low, so as the tiny tips of plugs don't get burned out. The best setting was called 6-7 amps DC pulse according to S1R9A9M9. Nathren , in 2005-2012 worked with the 2 technicians in the shop for testing building alternate energy related set ups. Ignition primary wires can be switched around to get the opposite output polarity high volts. One man was his son who had the same name. They both contributed tech data on the previous website that is now closed down. So you have either positive or negative high voltage, diodes facing proper direction, proper resistance in circuit based on OHMS Laws, time delay lines added for way late retarded timing to -34 degrees, required magnetic field that travels down to plug tips ,and 6-7 amps DC current. The high volts pulse is NOT good enough to provide a proper PLASMA PATH for the expected current to pass through plugs. What is used is an added small circuit that has a SMALL capacitor charged with about 200v DC against a blocking 15kv FAST diode , hooked to the capacitor output. The initial high V. pulse out, in split second ,sees a different path rather than the effort for the spark gap. It presses against the ON diode that abruptly shuts off , compressing the high volts against the diode , that then reverses back and fires spark plug.. It takes with it, the small cap discharge very fast, providing energy path for the waiting main current. The delay line is provided by wire turns over the plug wiring, and also an inductor coil of about 1.5Millihenry in the high volts line. The Briggs mower has preset non adjustable timing at TDC. The Mag field stretches the firing time out to -34 degrees along with the the extra L coil.(see data on the S1R9A9M9 triple wire coils assembly that has several purposes same time). The MAIN power supply is to be called ISOLATED grounds, as is done with an Inverter box with a transformer separate secondary side with output single diode for about 45 volts pulsing half wave DC output. No filter capacitor. Output has to go through a safety series bank of 15kv total protection diodes . This short length series diode bank rests vertically on horizontal 80mm 12v fan .3amp, with see through plastic shroud. The heat released is blown upwards away from the diodes. Either FR607 with dual set screws European type wire terminal connectors, or fast flat plastic DTV32F plastic damper diodes on narrow aluminum heat sink. The inverter isolation separates the battery ground with the output power ground. The miniature added P.S. is a 150 watt 20khz open board inverter with fast bridge rectifier you add on. Two output.wires are soldered to the appropriate terminals for 200v AC. .The high volts sees the 2 diodes in the bridge through the ON 15Kv diode. It wants to bypass the plug gap effort, by going different route seeking the opposite high V polarity terminal. But the microwave diode stops it, and reverses back to plug. This technique is US Patented, US8555867B2 and has this output diode added to the capacitor that is on a regular type CDI . The left over energy, from firing Primary of ignition coil , goes through high volts diode along and goes with with the high voltage that fires plug. (Just firing ignition does not allow extra main energy current to pass to plugs. ) The small board power has to have enough watts and current to keep recharging the minimum 45uf 400v cap in between firings. The MAIN extra energy comes from the Inverter power supply. The ignition voltage has to be extended in time of milliseconds for more contact with the water. The CDI type deals with microseconds. The 15KV diode is said to also release RADIANT ENERGY that travels down to the combustion chamber. Tesla worked with this and had written about other special circuits for that purpose. See data on Tesla Hair Pin circuit that has extra spark gap and 2 capacitors output that releases radiant Energy. The earlier Georgia S1R9A9M9 car conversions all used special dual coils relay per cylinder, and they were IN VACUUM. I just assumed that the radiant energy if provided, was enclosed and not lost in the air, so as it would travel with the circuit all the way to spark plugs. They had diode, coil, diode, coil , diode to output. The high volts came in after the 2nd diode. The L coil charge from inverter was in front of the 2nd diode. They called them the "Magic Relays'. The required magnetic field came from them and traveled down the wire. (Also, a North + South neodymium magnetic ring type magnet fits over a steel spark plug and field is also there at the tips in combustion chamber-just another idea.

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              • #8
                The S1R9A9M9 car engine and lawn mower conversions to water in carbs back in 2005-2012, required what's called PLASMA PATH for the subsequent main energy going into the spark plugs. (To make it work) The Chevy V8 had a different, stronger, ignition coil called High Energy Ignition that was about 20-40Kv, instead of 10-15KV regular coil. A low high voltage does not allow extra, unusual, heavy current to pass through spark plugs. The Elcamino had this HEI built into the 1978 distributor cap. They then switched around the primary 2 wires so as the output would be positive, rather than regular negative high voltage. The special relays were then added per cylinder with input of both low and high volts + many exterior diodes. The 400Watt inverter changed the 110v AC to half wave DC using one diode, at about 45V DC. The car ran with lower power but about 18 miles per gallon of plain water. With the late timing and magnetic field that was added, The complete set up worked.

                Then Nathren (S1R9A9M9) converted the Briggs 18HP riding mower engine to water, which is on the (2) 2008 You Tube videos. The common solid state trigger with (inductive type ignition) Magnetron coil on engine produced about 10kv while under compression. It's not enough to get the required PLASMA PATH for the forthcoming 10 amps current through spark plug. The added engine parts were enclosed in small plastic tub on side of engine. The hand wound S1R triple magnetic coils assembly, accessory spark gap, and other parts that would be needed for plasma path such as ---a peaking PF high volts capacitor across plug, OR high volts doubler circuit, OR 20kv blocking diode with small cap charge circuit to about 200v that would release fast energy through spark plug previewing the main 10 amps current. A CDI high volts type ignition cannot be used as the output is in Microseconds, while the spark plug electrolysis for Hydrogen requires Milliseconds time for contact of water with the current. These options would be better as it is best to only use the lowest voltage possible for the isolated power supply for the project. If using an extended length series diodes safety protection bank of 20-25KV, that requires a higher input from power supply to counter the larger voltage loss through diodes string. This is more data for those following this issue.

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