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Water Spark To Hydrogen And Water Vapor Pressure Ran Engines 2005-2008

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  • #16

    This work is a steady long running duplication project . The 2008 demonstration of self running Briggs engine used car battery start with then disconnected , so as idling engine ran on the alternator only with water applied to carburetor. The 3 technicians at that time were the ones who discovered that 2 things operated the engine same time, as water vapor pressure along with hydrogen gas formation . The additional Nitrogen from EGR increases efficiency as on the 2 earlier chevy V8 successful conversions done. It was verified also that the special relays had contributed to the greater efficiency. (NOT used as you normally would at all) and is related to the Radiant Energy applied from either or both methodologies, as diode release from the Hi V against on diode that closes fast, producing radiant energy with current following, or the vacuum present that causes containment of the Radiant Energy that then follows the wiring to plug, They just knew the system worked. The Magnetron ignition is self powered by external magnet. The alternator is self powered by 12 magnets. The timing has to be greatly adjusted as late to -34 degrees. A magnetic field has to be present at the plug tips. They believed that the diodes kept the cylinders HOLDING the system until the next firing cycle. The cars operated on 6-7 amps draw at about 24kv, as from oscilloscope probe tests. The Briggs engine was on 10 amps draw as running engine , but due to reactance added to the low volts line, from the high side, the input had to be higher as about 16amps. The website example showed a spark wiring demonstration called "the 60 turns coil test". 20amp dc battery draw to a separate load was reduced to 12amps flow with the HIV field interferes with the 12v line side. (60 turns over plug hi v cable wire with steel rod core for the electromagnet. The Georgia technicians stopped their final open report to public since no more exact relays were available to purchase. Not only that, many others were hurt trying to duplicate a set up and didn't know what they were doing. You Tube S1R9A9M9 (2) YouTube videos Questions?


    • #17

      The Georgia engines shop work from 2005-2012 was experimental, and well known in the rural area where Nathren and the 2 techs had their commercial electricians work base. The alternate energy set ups were done in spare time. As was stated in my earlier paragraph, the relays per cylinder were not used as originally made for. No clicking action, not used as original switching latching method . The interior inductors were used both on high voltage and low volts at same time for purpose of extension of spark time based on inductance value. There may have been dual pulses involved based on the parallel side diode path. Wire coils hold a temporary charge as well as capacitors. The vacuum chamber prevents leakage of energy and electrical contacts react better. The cars tested with water flow had greatly reduced horsepower, but could be used as slower to get up to highway speeds. . The 1978 El Camino was said to have went 3000 miles before being locked up. The car engines converted required the carburetor main jets to be redrilled about 30% larger for more water flow. This for the power mode , which is above idle speed. The drawing of that strange specific relay and it's connections is on Internet as used back at that time, as well as the schematic of its use on engines. I saw 6 sets of contacts, switching armature , and with dual coils with diode built inbetween. This original purpose was for electromechanical Georgia traffic signals switching , pole electrical box with .6ohm each coil from main input pole line 220v AC 60 cycles. The signal lights were 6v auto bulbs up above. Extreme high electrical efficiency for all temperatures and weather conditions sealed in vacuum. There was no part numer or name plate for any purchasing. Black Bakalite housing on all 15 surplus units purchased in Georgia. All search teams failed to find any more. It was assumed they were a special manufacturing order. This is why no final electrical report was issued to the public on the web forum.
      Last edited by russwr; 11-02-2023, 04:27 PM.


      • #18
        It's finally coming together as to theory on the wiring set up similar to the S1R9A9M9 demonstrations of lawn mower engine running on water in carburetor summer 2008. My original idea had to do with the triple wires coils as a step down/up transformer with wire to ground. This would be seem reasonable since there was a possible wire to ground. However, the use of original ignition coil is negative high volts with positive ground. With high v. at metal ground of engine, it would never jump upward of spark gap. It would bypass the spark plug for sure, and travel up any side wire, resistor, or capacitor lead, since the gap requires an effort. Electricity always travels the easiest way.

        Now, when examining the old 2005-2012 schematic from Georgia on the car conversions of water in carb as successful, I noticed the polarity was referenced twice as positive high voltage. After purchasing a Chevy HEI coil, the primary wires are exposed, and can be switched around from normal Negative to positive high volts. The HEI ignition is high enough to form it's own plasma path for the following 6-7 pulse amps from the half wave DC Inverter. The regular mower ignition Magnetron as modified for positive only had reduced output volts as done 2 ways, as tested was about 10kv, DC after diode. It's not enough for a good plasma path and would not allow engine to run on water.

        I then went back to repeat the original You Tube videos #1+2, at 25% speed and noticed the rusted ignition coil had shiny new screws, which made me suspicious. This means it was removed, and the screws were lost. After the videos , engine was put back the way it was in garage with original ignition with new screws on it. Then I noticed that Briggs 2 plug engines can have 1 or 2 ignition coils on them. The single coil type with (2) cables for each plug fires negative and positive high volts the same time. Then I surmised that this is how the Briggs 18HP was changed to positive high volts ignition, wire negative to ground, just like the earlier cars had positive high volts. This way IT IS ALLOWED TO HAVE an accessory WIRE TO GROUND, and the ignition would always fire the spark plug. The special dual cable type outputs FULL high volts without loss and is a standard type secondary side winding that is not connected to the primary side as in regular AUTOTRANSFORMER type.

        The next observation of the original design was mine alone- no one else ever figured this out except me. Right after the 2 videos were done in Georgia, The S1R triple coils assembly was removed and taken into house and photographed on blue graph paper. The circle was traced around the plastic deli tub that it was in , on side of engine. Nathren stated in message there were other parts in tub used as associated with this fuel conversion. (not mentioned) A picture blow up of the removed electromagnet coils shows something extremely important. The joint of the red and gray wires is covered in black electrical tape. There is a stub cut off wire with copper strands sticking out of joint, as 3 wires.

        Later Nathren said he was going to show us in video on how to special hand wind this coil unit. Get this,- He only took apart the "verified" original triple wires on camera, not putting one together as a new one like he should of. But what's important is the very first part of video. The same unit placed on back porch table had been READJUSTED. The center stub cut off wire was removed and new black tape was re covering up the joint. He didn't want that piece shown dropped off during disassembly. This tap point on the S1r triple coils assembly is what was needed with separate 1.5Millihenry inductor coil, in the tub, to direct ground. See no#1 +#2 video for the brown extension cord hooked to side of tub, Inverter box, and direct to bottom of spark plug. The wires like that were on all the car conversions as return line back to power source Inverter. The "plug" end on cord was BRIDGED across so as the extension cord twin lead was actually A VERY LONG CONNECTING SINGLE WIRE). This is what was connected to the inductor. When the positive ignition fires plug downward to ground, the side inductor coil discharges as back EMF flyback pulse following the spark, and provides the proper plasma path that the ignition coil could not. The diodes in between plug and side coil are in an ON STATE . The rushing in Hi V pulse tries to avoid the plug GAP and "sees" the other ground point through the diode and side coil. Right after the ATTEMPT forward against diode, the diode shuts off so as it reverses and fires spark plug. The side coil then releases it's fast higher volts back EMF to the plug gap providing the plasma path. At that point the main current 6-7 amps can flow through spark plug.

        The fuel generated is water vapor pressure and hydrogen gas from spark plug electrolysis. The original 4000 ohm spark plug was changed to Champion brand 125ohm QC12YC plug so as the internal resistor can be removed for zero ohms spark plug. Proper late timing is required at about -neg 34 degrees. The electromagnet extends the engine timing from zero degrees to about -34 degrees before shutting off. This is the invention of the 2 Georgia technicians and Nathren (S1R9A9M9) from 2005-2012.

        I am currently doing ignition coil tests with homemade horizontal spinning wood flywheel with flywheel magnet and opposite balancing lead washers . The brass screw + magnet is matched with brass screw and easily cut lead washers as both even weights as tested on digital gram weigh scales. The auto type heater blower 12 v motor spins with 10A variable DC SS speed control module. The Briggs coil is mounted on used coil bracket so as close enough for an air gap of .012inch using brass non magnetic feeler gauges. This set up allows indoor testing and not causing undue stress on an engine , and repeated recharging of battery due to the huge starter motor pull of amps on lawnmower $35 battery. I have list of 10 tests needed to be done with this.
        Last edited by russwr; 11-02-2023, 04:29 PM.


        • #19
          More tech notes for those who are still following this subject - if you recall, regarding the original S1R9A9M9 triple coils assembly from 2008 lawn mower that ran on water in carb, the construction of unit was quite peculiar and caused many peoples reactions and disbelief. The photos are still on internet for review. The high volts side used bare copper wire. The lower half of electromagnet had no steel core. The reference was that the engine ran on negative high voltage. You may also be thinking about inventions only partly shown to public, without exacting information or changes done before actual release photos. After many had failed to duplicate the process with wire turns, voltage source and amps load, I surmised that the originator had probably used a only similar, but DIFFERENTLY constructed S1R coils assembly. Most US Patents and drawings are only a high % accurate so as not to divulge propriety information. Therefore , I am presenting here today further data for you to chew on. I am still actively pursuing this project. The blow up of original unit showed a stub- frayed wire cut off from the joint of (2) #14 gauge wires. When Nathren's next video came out he had removed the stub and re taped up the joint, .... before the take apart video was done. I had way earlier dismissed the notion of a transformer, since a High Positive volts from ground would not allow spark plug firing with a side line wire to ground.(Electricity always goes up a bypass if it is less effort that way.) The study of documents regarding the earlier cars conversions showed that the ignition coils were firing positive voltage to ground. Why not the Briggs 18hp engine? The change over to a double cable Magnetron as used on the twin cylinders allows the use of one cable as ground and the other as positive high volts on 1 cylinder lawn mower. . This now allows a Sir coils assembly to be a possible transformer. Next, - The car conversions all had very high output ignition coils as minimum 24KV or higher. The Briggs Magnetron is only 6-15Kv and not AC output- Very hard to raise up the voltage. (cap+diodes multiplier can't be used.) What was needed was a PLASMA PATH extra method applied . This is either a back EMF higher high voltage from charged inductor 1.5MH or a charged capacitor with output time constant to last the required .030second. I took another look at the data from the expired old web forum , and I remembered the page regarding the (60 turns coil test). The talk was about reactance ohms added on low volts side, from high volts side, that causes the 16 amps capability input to reduce down to the 10 amps going through spark plug. The demonstrated engine videos both started on 12v battery. Nathren said that all information was in the web forum to duplicate his work!!!!!!!!!!!!. A final data sheets set was not going to be released, due to too many people getting hurt tryin to do the conversion. So now, after reviewing all this, I surmised that the other 2 methodologies for getting plasma path WOULD NOT HAVE THE PARTS ACTUALLY FIT INSIDE THE small PLASTIC DELI TUB ON SIDE OF ENGINE IN THE 2 You tube VIDEOS.What was left ,- if regarding positive high volts firing downward to ground negative of spark plug, was that an ignition coil CAN fire into another step up pulse transformer to send an even higher high voltage output! Now get this,---- The original S1R coils as used in the (2 )2008 videos is not what was shown to the public. A similar one may have been actually used.- but different construction. I say 13 turns primary, and 47 turns as PART of secondary as full secondary is 60 turns total,(13+47) as being a 3 terminal autotransformer step up type. The end of primary goes to accessory spark gap in the tub, that fires to an outside ground wire. There was a cable to ground in the videos. The 2nd triple wires assembly shown was notorious with bare wire, missing lower core present, no talk about the joint, nor the outside cable,, or actual polarity of spark. With about 6kv firing the first primary spark,3kv per 1mm gap, the ratio step up could be greater than 24kv. (ratio 1;4.6) This similar unit will fit in the plastic tub, and form the proper plasma path for the subsequent 10 amps through plug. I also surmised that he dropped the number 4 on the triple wires assembly and reduced the length of core steel. 13+ 7 = 20turns. All his changes disallowed a transformer effect and not enough wire turns. The current model I made is for 6 amps as all the other car engines conversions in Georgia had used 6-7amps flow. The number of turns of the added on #16 wire required magnetic coil on top, was increased by same ratio as amp decrease. , so as 13 to 22 turns. The magnetic field travels down to spark plug chamber to enhance the reaction. I also had put neodymium ring magnet on steel spark plug.

          I am currently looking into possibility/ not possibility, using bundled thin soft iron wires together in vinyl hose to use as iron core , rather than steel long screw. The residual magnetism removes itself in between pulses- contrary to steel nail or rods.Residual may be needed. I'm using floral wrapping iron wire roll.
          In the original (2) S1R9A9M9 You tube videos, the battery was disconnected after engine idling, and the under flywheel alternator provided the electric flow from the free energy 13 magnets. Nathren neglected to say it was self running on the developed water vapor pressure and Hydrogen gas at spark plug electrolysis.


          • #20
            Speculation On Nathren's Grand Deception ! -- His Briggs Engine Did Run On Water during demonstrated two 2008 Youtube videos! During research for my electrical conversion project to duplicate Nathren's electrical circuit, at stage 5 of 6, this current level has to do with what's called "waste spark". We need to protect our battery from the high voltage. That wasn't done during 2008, and him and his son were in danger of battery acid expulsion. The engine timing fires spark plug WITH conductive solution at plug tips. During waste spark firing, there is no fluid, only dry plug gap. This forms way higher voltage that can reflect back to battery. I was going to use power supply with diode bank for plug firing at protection level of 15KV. The Electromagnet was to be on all the time to ground, according to Nathren. EXACTLY AFTER the 2 videos came out, he answered questions truthfully.on the web forum and the comments section of Youtube videos for VERY SHORT PERIOD ONLY. Soon after, all answers were wrong, and his circuit comments would not operate any engine on water. Not only that, the rest of the needed parts were not told about that were in the plastic tub on side of the Briggs 18HP engine. Several non-knowledgeable people were hurt trying to duplicate system, so at that point,he got in trouble, he gave no more truthful data, and made false answers, even to me. . This is what has impeded interested parties who were also wanting to get into the conversion.

            He said the engine was purchased new for a demonstration. Close up pictures show dusty, worn paint, used engine. He then said mower engine came from a used riding mower. It was requested for the part number of engine, so as specifications would be known AND about the alternator. Specs were not given. He said that engine had no alternator. It is well known that all riding lawn mowers have an alternator, and during the 2 earlier videos, the engine 10 amps current had to come from the alternator for the power used, after the battery was completely disconnected..That particular engine had "dual" 1/2 alternators, so that with bridge rectifier mounted, 10 amps could be realized. I have the same type used engine with same alternator..

            The earlier 2005-2008 conversions done on 4cyl, 6cyl, 8 cyl cars, and 4 cyl tractor engines all used the 400Watt inverter and dual coils relay per cylinder. The ONLY ground for system was through the spark plug to NEGATIVE ground. There was no separate electromagnet to separate ground on these previous engines. With POSITIVE high volts to negative ground, the plugs would always fire. But never with positive ground , negative high volts., with same time other connections to ground causing plug BYPASS. The ignitions were changed to positive high volts. On the Briggs engine, he said the electromagnet had to be on all the time to separate ground. With negative NORMAL high volts, the single spark plug would never fire.The very EARLY comment said the power current wire was connected to high volts and spark plug top, so as 10 amps would flow through spark plug. The later stories and his other videos DID NOT HAVE THAT! We now know that POWER current HAS TO FLOW THROUGH SPARK PLUG!, not as an induction mode he later said. His later statements were to get people away from a working engine by keeping power current away from plug and through a separate resistance load to ground. The Nathren deception continued with the message board and videos messages section.

            It is now believed that separate electromagnet is not necessary on Briggs engine, since all previous engines DID NOT HAVE ANY! Previous engines conversions did not have the S1R9A9M9 triple coils assembly with electromagnet AT THAT TIME period! The necessary magnetic field of the coils is only when plug fires to ground!

            There are 2 solutions to the waste spark problem. (1) No separate electromagnet used, with its problem of high voltage danger to battery. (2) Use of electronic circuit counter IC circuit for fire+ not fire, to eliminate point where plug is dry, and greatly increases voltage hazard. A Separate diodes bank to protect separate battery circuit loses 10.5 volts from 12 volts. Just Integrating the power supply output and battery output same time through same diode bank protection - still loses 10 volts from battery. Note- the strength of magnetic field from an electromagnet only has to do with number of wire turns, size of coil and the amps current involved. Nothing about voltage in main formula. - But the wattage is lost.

            Therefore : - Power supply of 6 amps flow and separate 4.5 amps electromagnet flow from the battery is reduced down to just 6 amps forward flow through spark plug from power supply only! Nathren and his son, and 2 technicians in their shop used 6-7 amps through all the cars engines spark plugs. 10 amps is not necessary as used on the mower engine of 2008. You can still see the 2008 S1R9A9M9 Youtube videos of his engine running on hydrogen gas from spark plug electrolysis and water vapor pressure contributing to piston compression.


            • #21
              The electrical circuit for the water powered mower engine has several voltages involved that you have to be aware of.

              (1) fully charged battery voltage
              (2) Inverter box secondary AC voltage
              (3) AC voltage reducer box voltage output
              (4) Full wave rectification DC block output power voltage
              (5) Voltage drop loss adjustable power resistor
              (6) Voltage drop loss 15KV series diode bank
              (7) electrical load spark plug conductive electrolysis cell voltage across
              (Ground return line 1 ohm resistor voltage drop back to Inverter ground terminal
              (9) In series "added" voltage from cross leakage induction volts from S1R triple coils assembly
              (10) Briggs alternator ring output AC voltage
              (11) Briggs alternator voltage regulator output DC charging voltage
              (12) voltage drop loss from accessory in series spark gap with spark plug
              (13) voltage drop loss from inductor 1.5-1.75 mh in power line

              E/I=R, E/R=I , I X R =E Voltage drops in series add up to supply volts.

              An electrical meter as multiple neon bulbs ,or digital readout voltmeter will only register the highest voltage at top of the spark plug. What's there, is about 35vDC, 100v added DC, and variable high ignition volts DC. What is also needed, is to measure separately and KNOW the crossover leakage volts that ALLOWS the spark plug cell to make sufficient hydrogen gas. This voltage is adjustable by using the common spark tester with screw that adjusts ,as used by auto mechanics This is the accessory spark gap.and is in line with the 2nd inductor, and spark plug to ground. ( With the plug gap covered in conductive electrolyte such as baking soda water, salt, the plug gap greatly reduces the high voltage. The 1st spark gap can regulate the final gap, and also the needed induction crossover volts that pushes faster hydrogen gas.The S1R9A9M9 coils has the 2 red wire ends that receive the induced voltage. The GAP adjustment is done to get this induced voltage sufficiently high. Remember, the diodes bank must cover the highest volts ,so as no return damage to inverter or battery. The Briggs engine is called a 4 cycle and has what's called WASTE SPARK. During that spark period time of flywheel rotation, of no moisture plug gap,and is an open air gap, the ignition voltage jumps up way higher. Now you see this is a more involved design for a bench set up. Temporarily, I use a small old style Harley motorcycle ignition coil can with push/release points switch and condenser for immediate testing with high voltage.

              On the old cars with high mileage, after dark, you lift the hood and see sparking going on with the ignition wires. They are worn out from overheating and needed replacing. The engine was running uneven because of crossover induction. The 1978Waterfuel web forum, that's now shut down, had page reference to car ignition thick insulation cable wire wrapped with 60 turns insulated hook up wire for purposely getting crossover leakage volts!


              • #22
                More data for those who may be following this S1R9A9M9 project.-
                I just mounted a small Briggs engine to test compression "USES". Tests done way earlier by another researcher (on Internet), found out that a capacitor charged to 200v and 500uf and fired into salt water at spark plug would move lawnmower engine piston one revolution. The high volts didn't seem to matter to him, though. Notes gathered from the S1R website indicated that a crossover leakage inductance voltage , possibly capacitance effect, did transfer => 90 volts, as indicated by glowing neon bub. Other parts were indicated as used in the 2 SUCCESSFUL 2008 Youtube videos, but not told. I assumed it was diodes and an accessory spark gap. NOW I see a good reason for it. Spark gaps in air are as 3Kv /mm gap. 2mm plug in air is about 6Kv. Under engine compression that would be about 6 X 5 as ratio of a Briggs engine compression is 5.8 :1. Now, if an in line series gap is ADDED , the spark plug stays at the same voltage. (Plugs only fire at the least volts needed) The sum of 2 gap voltages equals the beginning ignition coil output. If the total is INCREASED, then the crossover volts (of the S1R coils assembly) increases past 90volts, so as being in series with the amps current line through the spark plug also. 100-200volts can be realized with the low volts included. Nathren and other 2 shop technicians had said several times, about 100v and 6-10 amps is needed for the electrical circuit for creating sufficient hydrogen gas fuel from spark plug electrolysis. Salt water cell at plug TIPS is about 22 ohms resistance - not zero ohms, and requires higher volts than 12-18vDC to push 6 amps through the tiny electrodes. E / I = R, I needed X R cell = required voltage. E total high volts = E1 plus E2 spark gaps.

                Other statements regarding the earlier car engine water conversions in Georgia had told of a special test done with 60 TURNS insulated wire over a spark plug wire and getting crossover volts. This technique may have been used on all those car engines, along with EGR. (They had also talked about interference reactance ohms from crossover leakage as a connected circuit of 12v and 20 amps, through amp gauge being reduced to 12 amps flow through load resistor when plug was fired.)! What do you think now? (Closing in on The 2008 Georgia Briggs 18HP engine that ran on water.)


                • #23
                  Since the spark plug electrolyte cell requires over 100 volts added on / superimposed in series to the low volts power supply to get the 6-7 amps through spark plug of about 22 ohms CELL, there is another method to do this without relying on the leakage voltage transfer from the S1R9A9M9 triple wires electromagnet assembly section. A purchased miniature power supply module as DC to DC converter, high frequency, 150W, with fast rectification, can be used with power resistor ON THE INPUT BATTERY side to limit the power/ current way down, and get mostly the higher voltage needed ON THE OUTPUT SIDE. It's called isolated- "150W dc12v to AC220v power inverter module. The small board HAS built in optional use, full wave rectification output .The selection jumper also allows for 110/220v . This is the upgraded, now better unit on Ebay. The regular box Inverter to DC use higher wattage power supply will send the amps + wattage, while the small P.S. board supplies the superimposed higher DC volts required to push the 6-7 amps through the ohms resistance of spark plug electrolysis electrolyte at those plug TIPS. Since the small board is basically an Inverter with no connection between primary side and secondary, it's called ISOLATED as per the grounds connection. The main unit P.S. would be also like that. (Resistor cannot be on secondary side, as it would also limit the main other previously adjusted P.S. The LOAD cell is the resistance for BOTH.) Again, there is also what's called waste spark, which during that time of flywheel rotation, the intake valve of Briggs engine is closed and no significant water at plug.
                  (Your flashlight has multiple DC volts batteries in series to raise up voltage for the bulb.)


                  • #24
                    This was a circuit from 2008 on a mower engine that purposely allowed crossover leakage induction volts from a 5 turn wire onto an adjacent 7 turn wire, WITHOUT core, so as the in series volts is increased from 12 to over 100 volts. Was this brilliant, or just a cheap method of increasing a lower voltage. See photo of S1R9A9M9 triple wires assembly electromagnet on internet images. The LOWER only section of 13 turns had steel core. This was in reference to HIS (2) YouTube videos that can still be seen. . (On old, worn out ignition cables, they spark across in the dark at night when you lift the hood on bad ignition cables.) He put the inserted section with spark plug cable to use for his project in 2008. Is this type called capacitive voltage induction? My first test on this showed a neon bulb glowing with at least 90v, FROM ONLY THE 7 TURNS WIRING, not electrically connected to 5 turns.

                    The next step is to add accessory spark gap, which does not affect spark plug firing. As the input Ignition coil is then forced to INCREASE to compensate, the leakage crossover volts would also go higher. ( I believe NOW THIS IS THE SECRET how Nathren and the 2 technicians successfully ran the Briggs engine on hydrogen generated in combustion chamber electrolysis and fired for piston force. If this is so, then all their other car conversions done earlier had made use of stated 60 turns over EXISTING spark plug cables!! E higher volts needed = 6–7 amps X Resistance of tiny salt water cell at plug tips.- about 23 ohms. Briggs had 5 turns bare #12 wrapped with 7 turns insulated, and then for the other autos,- thick insulated ignition cable wrapped with 60 turns insulated #14 gauge wire coil! What do you think?
                    Last edited by russwr; 04-10-2024, 07:59 PM.


                    • #25
                      Where did they get their information from? To answer your question, I am referred back to the thousands of messages on the now shut down web forum, used by Nathren and others. Nathren was a non-technical person - at all., little formal education, just hands on work knowledge. His son, also Nathren, WAS a technician and worked for an electrical company. They had a part time machine shop/garage, where the other 2 TECHNICIANS also worked in their spare time on alternate energy systems-solar, and electrolysis for hydrogen. Therefore, all 4 of them tinkered in the garage/workshop in Georgia. So now you know who designed and built the electrical circuits for the different car conversions and the mower engine that ran on THE SAME type spark plug electrolysis for hydrogen and water vapor pressure. On the Waterfuel1978 forum, Nathren signed in as S1R9A9M9, and son signed in as Nathren. You could tell the big difference by the technical quality of paragraphs written. ( The code S1R9A9M9 came from a metal machining job done by contract for small part used on a previous NASA mission to space. It is a reference to MARS 1999 spelled backwards. That's what he had used to start up the original web forum to tell the public about the TECHNICIAN"S work on alternate energy projects)


                      • #26

                        I need an electrical circuit for using only a standard lawn mower Briggs magnetron to increase high voltage output to 24,000volts! The flywheel magnet instills 5-8v PULSE ONLY, trigger shorts the primary to ground, then back EMF creates negative -130 volts to run the secondary side for negative 12,000volts. The primary is very low .2 ohm resistance. The metal core end connects to ground for secondary side and trigger side, + the trigger connects primary to ground. The open tab terminal is accessible for primary wiring . Can this be attached to 12 volts DC to superimpose on the 5-8volts, to get a higher secondary output? How? Mower ignition is called autotransformer with 3 terminals only. The aftermarket solid state trigger module called Stens operates when the voltage is indicated going into primary from the North pole magnet. The internal transistor switches on temporarily to ground. This connection maybe could be used for another transistor to instill 12v DC superimposed onto the magnet voltage. This would then instill a higher back EMF that runs secondary side for higher, high voltage. Also, a different burst oscillator mode, for single pulse desired, could be used and then shut down by the trigger. Maybe the 12v DC has to be triggered in, so that it doesn't short the primary winding to burn out. That's the problem. Ideas??? I have magnetic hall switches to operate a transistor to switch in the 12 volts. ( A voltage doubler circuit requires only AC input) The small unit being sold for autos is a high frequency oscillator that raises also up to 16 volts pulse to the ignition, - was called firestorm for as $8 to $75. A man in England on YouTube was adding parallel capacitor to TV fly back primary to raise up high voltage as the resonant frequency of wire and ferrite core is way higher, and run from high frequency oscillator.
                        I already tried increasing magnetic field by adding neodymium multiple magnets on top of North pole magnet with no volts increase. ((After 1982, The Briggs ignition coil had built in solid state transistor and trigger coil under the epoxy, and then all are called MAGNETRONS. - Uses same name as the glass tube oscillator in a microwave oven.)) The other model ignition Magnetron, with 2 ignition cables, has secondary side not connected to primary side. That dual cylinders Briggs engine fired one side negative high volts while the other spark plug fired positive high volts. The system is still single pulsed based,- NOT AC.
                        The way earlier pre-1982 Briggs ignitions were called MAGNETO with points + condenser, that used plain autotransformer without any solid state. I had earlier contemplated to add a south pole magnet next to North pole one, to get AC to run the Primary of a MAGNETO transformer, and use double universal triggers with blocking diodes to get it to run. Only then, can the common AC voltage multiplier be used to increase the high voltage on the secondary side. That is also still a primary+ secondary auto transformer system. If that was used , the secondary side has reduced high voltage, as the metal core has to be mounted upside down to get positive high volts. - The primary is not then part of the secondary when fired. Any ideas?
                        Last edited by russwr; 04-17-2024, 07:27 PM.


                        • #27
                          S1R9A9M9 Discrepancies And Lies, And Corrections From 2008

                          This section is a grouping of data collected from the YouTube videos and original web forum called Waterfuel1978, regarding mostly the TRUE AND SUCCESSFUL 18 HP Briggs mower engine demonstrations that ran on water during summer 2008 Georgia. Those who are following this particular hydrogen gas conversion need to know these things I found out over a long period of time.

                          Nathren + son also Nathren, gave data as the shop work progressed through various adjustments on cars and mower engine. Majority of thousands of messages tech data is true. Once a viable system is first completed, general information is given to public, but controlled to an extent. Priority confidential parts hook ups are kept out of released info. These changes and misrepresented parts have been verified by very diligent observations of all data found over time. Here is what you missed or didn't know --- Nathren (father) was uneducated as people can see from his writings on web forum. The son WAS a technician who worked in the Georgia shop with the two technicians on projects. The father Nathren gave impression in web forum messages that he was responsible for these conversions and gave directions to the tech people. Not so. He did not know specially how sections worked as he was not the brains behind these engine conversions. His sentences had to be gone over several times, just to figure what he had really meant. Yes, it was that bad.

                          The conversion parts during 2008 summer demonstration were contained in a plastic deli tub, on side of engine, spray painted gray to keep eyes out of needed information on the Briggs 18HP engine conversion to hydrogen gas and water vapor pressure. There were several other parts in tub not talked about. ( figured as accessory spark gap, diodes, wire connectors. After considerable amount of my comparisons done on this special wind of S1R9A9M9 triple wires assembly, It has been found out that the picture shown in color, of the coils is really the original one used in the YouTube videos , (basic frame) but modified before being shown to public on that graph paper photo. The wiring directions have also been changed,- not only of the coil itself, but also the wire ends function and hook up. The original unit used had a BENT steel nail as core. See photo, as original. Others are copies with straight nail. When unit was removed from engine after the 2 videos, the wires JOINT extra wire with the red and gray, was snipped off leaving a stub wire with frayed copper sticking out . You can actually see that on enlarged photo on the graph paper. This was a separate connection used on engine. An actual ground connection, because this whole thing was originally a step down autotransformer type to increase current TO spark plug with ratio step up of 7 to 20 current from 3.5 to 10 amps. The alternator without modifications was pulsing DC 3.5amps maximum. The exterior extension cord has a Y with one end hooked to ground under plug, while other end goes to the tub. The main cord plug is breached with jumper so as this becomes one very LONG wire to ground for the transformer tap point. Now the high voltage bare wire of coils assembly, hooks both to ignition and to white #12 wire to plug. This 2nd joint actually had 3 wires- white 12 gauge + bare #12 wire + red #14 gauge together. The main other joint also had 3 sections. Power comes in on the one gray wire from both battery and alternator. Battery start was necessary to get alternator up to idling RPM for useable current output, to get the pulsing DC from the one diode to actually run a transformer. Either AC or pulsing on + off DC will run a transformer. The red wire and High Volts go to spark plug. NOW******The original S1R9A9M9 coils unit used ( NEVER SHOWN) had to have had 7 turns parallel wound TOGETHER with the 5 turns ignition side. That makes the whole unit a transformer with steel core under both primary and secondary. With this particular step down voltage autotransformer, the 2 coils 13T and 7T together is the full Primary. 20:7 as 20 turns to 7 turns ratio. 2.8 to 1 as step up current ratio as 3.5 amps primary side from idling alternator before transformer effect to 10amps. An autotransformer type, has 3 terminals only. Nathren had taken the original from engine and loosened- removed the RED coil from the 5 turns high V as being in parallel, and changed it to 90 degrees wind , so as there would be no core for the red wire, and then no transformer to use. This then, does not disturb the main joint that still has the stub wire. They did not want proprietary information let out, on how their system actual worked. He then said he would later show video on how to wind one of these. What he did though, on video was a "take apart" only. It was noticed that when comparing the so called original photo, he had removed the STUB FRAYED wire and retaped up the joint just before the take apart. You can see this in start of video with coils setting on table. (stub removed and retaped up differently. He did not want people seeing this 3rd wire piece falling out during video. (That was the ground wire tap for an autotransformer!)

                          In the 1st of the (5 ) S1R9A9M9 You tube videos, you can see the power wire coming down from engine upper plastic cowl going down into the plastic tub with the high volts ignition wire. Run video at lowest speed and see open spot where the black electrical tape had pulled down exposing the 2-3 wires. The heat of summer, engine heat, and the weight of tub of parts had loosened the glue , allowing the tape to slide down. By playing video back and forth , you can see the wires actually moving around. This power source was the FIRST proof of Nathren's real video! The old battery in video 1, was poor, so he hooked up a battery charger to add volts to run the starter motor. The water hose from bottle was placed in carb top chute. The hose was pinched slightly to get proper flow of water. Engine ran best during the later part of Video number 2. (That's the part that will make you smile!)

                          The purpose of the (2) 2008 videos was to show an engine running on water only, using battery for start only, then battery completely removed, with engine self running as OVERUNITY, running on formed hydrogen gas and water vapor pressure. The on board ring dual alternators under flywheel powered by the normal 12 magnets provided the lower 3.5 amps that was subsequently increased to 10 amps. All the earlier technicians car engine conversions had 6-7 amps through spark plugs. The 10 was not really needed. My own triple coils made, has slightly more turns, as it will use 6 amps , but using the same level magnetic field generated, by increasing the number of turns on both sides by the same increase ratio of current 20:1. The required timing change is based on this same level strength of MAGNETIC FIELD to time extend the spark in milliseconds to about negative late 34 degrees. The tap to ground runs primary as the higher turns section , with the lower turns section being the increased current side. This is what Nathren didn't want you to know. It fooled me for a long time until I figured it out.
                          Last edited by russwr; 04-24-2024, 08:16 AM.


                          • #28
                            Continued --

                            The related "Smack" videos, relating to the same 2 demonstrations, show the NON original, modified type unit as it has a STRAIGHT nail, and the joint is removed. It's the one that has the 90 degree winding. (non transformer). Smack came 1000 miles to Nathren's property to see an engine that ran on water, but was disappointed. Nathren never intended to show how it worked. The fool Smack never even tested engine to see if it would at that time even run on gasoline. The engine had sat in garage for long time before he got there, and it had seized up valves, no compression, from not being cleaned before storage with salt water from the original 2 demonstrations. He wasn't as smart as he thought he was , just like other young guys who think they know it all.

                            Nathren's other porch video was coils unit connected to engine improperly as 'in induction mode", which would never work. In the 2 original S1R9A9M9 You tube videos, the green 400watt Inverter box was NOT connected as any power. That was there, in background to mislead people watching. That box was only used on only all the car conversions using special dual coils relay per cylinder, as parts use-, not for relay type use.

                            I had way earlier asked him for the engine model number. (For more data for me to collect.) He did NOT comply and wanted to know WHY I wanted that. I was concerned about what type alternator was on his engine. He replied that engine did NOT have an alternator and the flywheel had no magnets to run it. More lies. (Everybody knows that all riding lawnmowers have a working alternator to recharge the battery.) He also said he purchased the engine new just for the videos. Upon closer checking of engine surface, it was dirty, and it was a used engine removed from a riding mower chassis. With the battery disconnected during both videos,-there was no way to power the engine conversion circuit. It would not work without an alternator. The salt water as electrolyte at spark plug tips, allows more current to flow with common electrolysis at spark plug tips. During piston downward thrust, the water becomes "VOLITILE" and changes to pressure vapor and expands also for more piston pressure. This all happens during about negative 34 degrees late timing, caused by the magnetic field over the inserted bare spark plug wire part of the coils assembly. Some of the field travels down to plug tips also. Exactly at the time of You tube videos release during 2008, Nathren was truthful and properly answering questions. Abruptly he changed stories and had redesigned coil, photos, and hook ups so as repeat performance of an engine on water would never happen again.

                            They said back then, the initial car V8 conversion of 1978 El Camino was on 18 miles per gallon water only, road tested for 3000 miles, using required EGR to get the Nitrogen from exhaust to improve engine performance. Engines will start and idle on water, with way lowered power output, but no power acceleration mode unless carburetor jet is increased/redrilled about 33% larger hole for more carburetor water to engine. With an appreciable amount of RESISTANCE OHMS in the electrolyte being there at plug tips, (10-22 ohms) a higher volts is needed to push the 6-7-10 amps through the spark plug. I X R = E volts needed. That's what the UNUSUAL bare #12 wire was for in the S1R9A9M9 TRIPLE COILS ASSEMBLY. It's called -----crossover leakage induction voltage , and in series with the low volts to raise it up so as full current can be realized. Nathren said several times in the forum to use 10 amps and 100 volts, but neglected to say how it was done. The several previous car conversions done there in Georgia, with zero ohms spark plugs with saltwater/ baking soda also needed a much higher volts to push 6-7 amps. The web forum had only one paragraph saying 60 turns #14 gauge insulated wire over spark plug thick insulated cable as a test for "show". I believed that was a HINT on how it was done on all those other earlier engines. (4 cyl tractor, 4 cyl car, 6 cyl car, 1978 V8 cylinder car, and the V8 engine on engine stand self powering their full electric for the workshop with large generator attached, and just the water line. Engine ran 24 hours all the time, never shut off. Engines must have EGR with adjustable valve added . Questions?
                            Last edited by russwr; 04-24-2024, 08:19 AM.


                            • #29
                              Tests done recently showed a bad spark leakage in the S1R triple coils assembly. A Suzuki car ignition was used instead of the Briggs mower Magnetron ran by spinning magnet. Therefore, either the ignition was wrong, and too high volts, or the 2008 documents +,photo of S1r coils is not EXACTLY what was used during the 2 successful Youtube Briggs engine demonstrations of running on water. (Proprietary information) I am presently assembling another S1R coil with insulated high voltage soft cable instead of bare copper wire as the original one allowed to be shown. The tests, however, did show, in general, good cross leakage induction volts on neon bulbs meter of 110-220volts and higher. The crossover is necessary in series to add to the low volts , so as it can push 6-7 amps through the spark plug electrolysis cell of 10-22 ohms electrolyte. (making hydrogen and in an engine,- water vapor pressure in addition).
                              The technicians and Nathren in Georgia had some kind of method they used on all those previous car engines to increase the low volts. Their diagram showed half wave DC of about 34 volts from Inverter box 110v AC. (not enough). Therefore, they may have really used a bridge rectifier for 110volts DC , and not allowing the public to know that. The shut down web forum did have a paragraph about a test for show, using 60 turns insulated #14 wire over spark plug cable for a demonstration of spark.They called it ball flash of light at plug tips. This may have been used, as cross leakage induction, on all those previous car engines that ran on water in the work shop 2005-2008. What do you think?
                              Last edited by russwr; 04-29-2024, 03:56 PM.


                              • #30
                                I finally found a reference on how to increase ignition high volts, like S1R9A9M9 Nathren, quite easily, from lawn mower Magnetron output. Data is from 2008, where poster Capacitor70 placed several notes regarding the method. It has to do with adding in 3 capacitors and firing an additional mounted ADJUSTABLE TYPE SPARK PLUG TESTER The wiring hooks to a 2 1/4" Diameter gray ferrite toroid core FT240-31 as step up transformer with 8 + 24 turns. The secondary side hooks to the main spark plug, and also the additional power supply amps. The transformer wires should be insulated high voltage silicone cables. I am using white 30kv and red 30kv. Winding directions polarity have to be figured. (Automotive ignitions are usually quite high in volts, contrary to lawn mower engine's Magnetron). A Briggs Magnetron is a pre1982 Magneto with a solid state trigger module epoxied in, and is all a one-piece unit. Total capacitance in series as less than 1000pf, near 500PF, at 6kv to 24kv total. Has to do with speed of resonance of Primary L and C. Suggested use was 2200pf+3900pf+7500pf. Use electronics formula for capacitors in series. The transformer will work for both negative and positive high voltage. While High V is going, must slowly adjust the first gap, to get the second gap to fire. EAY purchase orders less costly than Amazon that has minimum $35 order for no shipping charge. Some separate electronics companies have a minimum dollar order plus shipping plus sales tax. Someone back at that time had converted a Volvo 4cyl car engine to water, using the toroid method. Capacitor70 converted 3 different motorcycle engines that ran on water in carbs.HE said the new method was better than string of series diodes that overheats and melts the solder joints. (I don't see this toroid as any protection for main power supply.) He said there is an isolation factor. I also don't really believe it was just coincidence that the (2) S1R engine demonstrations came out in the same time summer 2008 as the capacitor70 tech data! Several drawings on Internet are wrong for the spark plug hook up for capacitor70 circuit. SEE THE ACTUAL TOROID CORE PICTURE FOR ORIGINAL USED AS GREEN WIRE HOOKED TO ACCESSORY FIRST SPARK PLUG TOP! The higher turns brown magnet wire is secondary step up as volts 1:3. The secondary side should hook to spark plug top and ground, CONTRARY TO THE OTHER INTERNET DRAWINGS. The circuit will allow for PLASMA PATH for the following amps injection. See other notes about the S1R coils as an actual hand wound STEP DOWN transformer ratio 13: 7, to use the low amps pulsing DC output of dual alternators ring, to raise it up to flow the 10 amps as stated, when only at idle speed RPM. The 7 turns WOUND SAME WAY AS 13 turns, REQUIRES THE STEEL NAIL/SCREW CORE underneath for proper magnetic field.) The exterior extension cord that's split,in the videos, allows connection to ground exactly at plug ground. Ground point same for both 1rst spark gap and tap to ground for S1R coils . The electromagnet also provides the needed field that EXTENDS the spark time- slows it down for zero to minus 34 degrees proper late timing. A separate L coil about 1.75millihenry is also in the high voltage line for further time extension. (Car battery first allows current, then removed.) The plastic sealed deli tub on side of 18HP Briggs engine contained BOTH the S1r coils assembly + the step up high voltage type pulse transformer with spark gap and capacitors. Nathren had said there were no capacitors used. He was untrained, and ignorant, and was thinking about CONDENSERS - the old wording. The 3 actual technicians in Georgia shop designed and built all the circuits,- not him. He said so. All this has to do with electrolysis at spark plug for hydrogen gas and water vapor pressure for self running engine, as was shown on Youtube video - S1R9A9M9 (2) videos and Nathren's now shut down web forum.
                                Last edited by russwr; 05-07-2024, 02:03 PM.