Off the grid with Bedini Tech

[BobZilla]

Hi Mikey,
Thanks for the video. One thing that I notice right away is that you at least seem to be powering it with a charger, from the grid. I understand you are simulating a solar panel but if I am seeing and understanding correctly you have the charge on the primary and the machine also drawing from it. If this is how you are running than you will never charge your primary up in a real world setting with a solar panel. I do think the tracker systems from Mr. Bedini can do that but you appear to be just putting the primary battery in-line to the AC charger. That's cheating Bro ;-)

Let's suppose that charger is a solar panel for a moment. It will try to charge your primary up but never make it because you are pulling a load at the same time, a pretty heavy one at that 2.2A. Ok so what would happen when the sun goes down. Your primary will be at about 12.4 or so and then it needs to run your system under it's own power. I imagine you would only get a few hours of run time before that battery craps out.

The thing to do is have one primary charging on the solar(charger) and the another running the system. That charger shouldn't be in-line if you want to simulate the solar setup.

I am only talking about a simple scenario here. But I am curious if you ever simulate the sun going down, ever unplug the charger? I do not think you are getting the same power input as you would from a true DC source such as a Solar panel but it is close maybe. Power supplies do some strange things on these systems that you do not see when using true DC. I know because I used to cheat with one myself and I noticed that when I went to batteries only on the input the system ran much differently. I also started learning to manipulate my power more efficiently because a couple hundred ma can make a huge difference on your run time.

Anyway just something to think about.

[BobZilla]

Mikey I think you misunderstood my point. Yes I use an external charger for my primary's, at least some of them. Others I do charge off a Bedini system but yes always tracing back somewhere I do use a charger. The point I am making to you is that that is done completely separate from the Bedini system. In other words the Bedini system never has any source on it accept a battery which has been charged by whatever means.

When observing the behavior of these systems it is crucial to understand how it works when you do not have an external power supply feeding it. All that I am saying is in your video you seem to be feeding your primary a steady drink and that is not realistic, even if you had a solar tracker because at some point the sun goes down and it will have to run on it's own.

Charge batteries with solar, a wall charger, whatever and then use them as primary for the machine. As the battery runs the machine it is going to loose voltage and amperage and this is the real world margin that we have to play with.

You remember my experiments with my solid state awhile back right? I stsrted doing some wacky stuff towards the end but early on I was showing that with a single 100ah primary I was able to charge two 75AH up to 12.8 or so. If I had a charger connected to that primary well you can belive that I would have pushed them both to 15 quite easily but that is not realistic. In fact I did finsh them by replacing the primary with another and running for a few more hours to get to the finishing charge. I did not elaborate on that because I was trying to get the job done with only 1 primary, if I had of suceeded it would have been a 50 percent gain, 150AH charged by 100. Also worth noting is that I used to run those things down to 11V because they are true deep cell.

Don't get pissed off man. I think your machines are really cool and you are doing some stuff that others are not. We could learn from your experiments and that is what it is all about. The reason I point out these things that I notice is to give you an outsider perspective. I know what it is like to work on a machine night and day for weeks, you start to get tunnel vision about the thing. That is why I switch up from solid state to mechanical sometimes. To take a fresh look.

I personally am thinking about buying some solar panels and a tracker so that I can truly take my experiments off the grid. As I said I do use a conventional charger for my primary but not in-line while running my systems. Even with the tracker you need enough extra power from the panels over top of what the charging battery needs if you want to run a machine at the same time. Most of my money has been spent on parts for the Bedini systems but always in the back of my mind I know that I am still using the grid as a source and I wish to change that. I do have some small panels that can run my machine in sunlight but that is not what I mean, I need to get real panels and a charging system.


By the way the thing with the primary charging itself back up, I have seen it happen with my own eyes on my system. It does not always happen and I have not figured out how to reliably produce it. In my case it can happen when running in mode 1 and setting the machine so that the charge rate is pretty darn slow. It is amazing to see BOTH the primary and the charge chart climbing at the same time. They do not climb fast but think of it, at that moment that truly is free energy, costing nothing to run the machine. To bad I cannot figure out the conditions that produce it. Just remember what I said before, current chases away the radiant.

Efficiency and TIME work against each other. The faster you want something to charge the less efficient, and less radiant appears. It's a fine line to walk.

[Tom C]

Thanks for the input Bob, its really important to understand why we experiment and why we do what we do! I always use a simple joules in joules out formula. if I even get 200 more joules out then that is a cop greater than 1. I can then look at my system and see where the gains are. some transistors go negative, but only at certain current draws. especially the 29114. JB has shared which ones go negative several times (2n222 mps ao6) he has also broken the machine down into its components so we can see how each part works. the front end is all standard EE. I too have seen both batteries climb, in mode 3. not every time, but enough to know it happens.

its just like Johns first mechanical device, ran till the bearings wore out, and he could not replicate it, but it was enough to put him on the road he is on right now, it was in resonance.


300 watts of free energy wow I love it!!! I can light my shop on 300 watts forever... that's a 250 dollars solar panel for free!! sorry Mike you and I will disagree on this one .... 300 watts leads to 600 and to 1 KW. I love solar because then ALL of my gains go to my house and nothing folds back into the machine and I have an infinite supply of primary for a few cents. a self runner does no one any good, because its not doing any work!!

Ismael, hector, doug, all those guys are working towards the same thing with coil banging and fast switching. pick your technology, run with it. I have infinity on my primary power, and I get a multiplier of gains on the output, even 30% more out than in is great!!

[aln]

Mike, your beast in a 2 channel will spin a wheel very nice. Thank your for posting it. Playing with it in mode 1 and very impressed so far, I move slow as I got lots on my plate, but I have a crude copy of your 14 awg spinning a mountain bike rim and zapping batteries. Why did you choose 47 ohm resistors? Al

[Brodie Gwilliam]

cpd mod solid state seems to like 100 ohms or less on the base, wheel is a different story

[aln]

My resistors have not made it to me yet, so I just put it together with a 10k ohm pot where your tank circuit is and a 1k pot where your resistors were. The wheel came off a bike from the dump, horrible free-wheel time. Too embarassing to mention. While hooked up, I couldn't keep it spinning unless I brought the 10k pot to nil and then matched the 1k pots around 600-700ohms. then it barely kept itself going. But, when I brought the resistance down something different happend on this than the 3pmp kit I've been playing with for a year, the input mA stayed the same and the output mA went up between 120 ohms and dropping it down to 50, and it was very nice at 50 ohms. That is why I asked how you came to using 47 ohm resistors. I am not ready to share results, I may have faulty meters, I hope not It is nearing deer season here and lots of work needs done outside before snow so I appologize in advance to those who will be wondering about this post as it may be a bit before I can confidently post results. I was getting the trannies warm at 50 ohms, but they were definately doing work for me. Peace, Al

Update 12/3/13: I did have faulty cheap chinese analog meters, will continue to test.

[Tom C]

mode 1- standard SG
mode 2- standard SG with cap pulser
mode 3 -SG in generator mode
mode 4-SG in generator mode with cap pulser

here is a small sample of the other ways I have tried, there are over 50....

mode 5- SG with bridge on output
mode 6- SG with bridge and cap pulser on output
mode 7- SG in generator mode with bridge and cap pulser
mode 8- SG in generator with freewheeling diode
mode 9- SG with various diodes and coils in different places
mode 10- SG with novel battery wiring and location
mode 11- solid state but not!
mode 12- patricks mode which is 6 to one or more!!!
mode 13- wind circuit trigger
mode 14- hall switched
mode 15- separate trigger coil
mode 16- no trigger coil
mode 17 tesla pancake coil wind on the spool
mode 18.................

the list goes on and on

Tom C

[Faraday88]

Splendid !Tom C i think one can do some thinking and add more to the list here..
The Tesla Pancake style is for sure an Universal mode both for the SG and the G-Field Coils.
Rgds,
Faraday88.

[BobZilla]

Tom don't forget about the work I did with the photo resistors ;-0

I know that was pretty far out there but it did offer a separation of amplitude and trigger frequency, it was a spin off of Patrick's CPD operationally. I don't think many people understood what I was doing with that, probably would have come off better if it could be seen in person.

Mikey I think the point Tom is making is that this is a group for builders and experimenters and creative minds will come up with a multitude of possibilities. I wish there were more people sharing some of the unique things they try. I personally have posted all kinds of wacky stuff, some works and some doesn't but there is often more to be learned from a fail than a success. And most importantly I look at this all as a collaborative effort. I mean at the heart of it why do we come here and post anything at all if not for the benefit of fellow experimenters?

It seems most people approach this and only post as if to say look at me, i did it, look how wonderful my machine is. What we do not see is the hundreds of configurations they have tried along way.

Mike I don't think Tom and the others are in the sinister role you sometimes paint them in. They are not dangling cookies at us or the holders of the great secrets. Sure they may know things that you and I do not but that is because of an understanding they have gained through a LOT of experimenting and hard work.

Mr. Bedini gave us the path, Tom and others try to help us navigate it but each individual is in the drivers seat.

[Faraday88]

Hi Bromikey,
My opinion on your query: 6 SG coils(SEVENTH IS OF COURSE THE TRIGGER) going to 1 battery is the Patrick's method....now who is Patrick is a question to me as well
BTW Modes 9, 14 ,16 combined are probably the Real-Mc'-coy modes I call it the 'split Bridge Mode'
Rgds,
Faraday88.

[Tom C]

Mike



I am refering to it as mode 3 because that is what it was called at the conference, nothing "secret" about it, its just semantics. so mode 2 is fine with me, mode 3 can be cap pulser. its not a list from anywhere, its just what I have tried as part of my experimentation to find what I need, you want 50 more? why? you dont have a bike wheel to experiment with. Bob is a perfect example of this, look where he went just from looking at the circuit and working outside the box.

patrick (min2oly) has been doing this stuff for years, with a little 3 pole kit. he has had zero "secret" information, but simply working on it has figured it out. 6 to 1 means I can do 6 batteries for 1 battery based on the input output ratio. did u watch patricks video? did you replicate it? Ralphs 6 coil was 9 to 1 on the bench, over a few hour period, charge discharge charge discharge. nothing fancy just a replication of Johns 6 coil.


Tom C

[RS_]

"300 watts leads to 600 and to 1 KW. I love solar because then ALL of my gains go to my house and nothing folds back into the machine and I have an infinite supply of primary for a few cents. a self runner does no one any good, because its not doing any work!! "

"Yes one panel leads to 2 panels and so on "

Mikey, he does NOT mean one panel leads to 2 panels....


He means that if you do it right, that you use the first so many Watts for x hours = Y Joules cumming from the ONE Solar panel bank that can charge the Primary battery fully, and run the energizer while the sun is shinning or what ever source is available ( (or use a Crystal Battery that runs 24/7, etc...etc...) by charging up more than one bank of battery's on the secondary side, than you can get more Joules out than you put in, you have to think of it as energy Amplification.....!!!

as example, say you have a primary battery that is charged from a solar tracker 5 that's running a energizer, that's charging 4 of the same size battery's as the primary, and that took 2A at 12V = 24 watts for 24 hour's (hours to sec = 86400sec ) 24W x 86400sec = 2073600 Joules of energy that it took to charge 4 battery's the same size as the primary. Then you run down each of these 4 battery's at 2A at 12V for 24Hr = 2073600 Joules of energy each = 8294400 Joules of energy, that is Cop 4, and is energy amplification.....

then say that you took each of the 4 secondary Battery's and put each of them on energizer's charging 4 secondary's each, and on and on...... some where in there you get to draw off the extra energy to do some thing else but charge more battery's......... and all it cost you was X Watts of solar and / or a little wind watts over time = Joules of free energy, ETC.... just enough source energy to charge the first primary fully, and run the energizer while the source is available, then the primary runs the energizer when the source is not available..... You amplified what you have available, into enough energy, that it will run ALL the things you want....... vs just using the solar and primary battery to run a few of the things you want directly.....

as another example, my 5 for 1 circuit that charged 5 sets of 4 AA battery's in series from 1 set of 4......
with this circuit set up with the source energy being a 5 cell crystal battery and a set of 4 garden lite size solar panels charging up a set of 4 60F super caps in series, would charge 5 sets of 4 AA battery's, that then ran various other charger circuits, , one of these cap pulsed charged 12V motor cycle battery's, that i then used to run other bigger charger circuits charging auto size battery's, or even run a small window motor, that was it's self, cap pulse charging a battery, or used the AA's to run Led Lighting circuits that would run for 22 hours........

[Tom C]

Bedini, 6 coil, John Bedini his 6 coil. Thanks RS for the answer, I am done for now. someone build a wheel

Tom C

[Branch Gordon]

Branch Gordon

Bedini, 6 coil, John Bedini his 6 coil. Thanks RS for the answer, I am done for now. someone build a wheel

Tom C

[RS_]

side note on charging batterys with bedini tech charged batterys

Quick notes about the differences in Bedini circuits.....

1. You can NOT use a SSG style circuit charged battery, to run another Bedini energizer SSG or SG styles, as this does not work well....use SSG charged batterys to run inverters or other DC loads only.........

2 You CAN use Bedini SG style Cap Pulsed charged battery's to run other Bedini energizers....

3 You can use muilty strand SSG based circuits that apply their output to a cap pulser circuit that's charging 4+ battery banks, and then use those battery's to run cap pulsed based or SSG energizers, to charge other battery banks....