John Bedini's Magnetic Model

[Aaron Murakami]

Deuis,

Your post on Rick was moved to that Rick thread.

It's helpful to all of us who have been screwed by Rick. If there are enough complaints publicly posted, he'll eventually have to face the music. Also helps to prevent others from getting screwed by him.

[Aaron Murakami]

So what we have is two events one at switch closure and one at switch opening... Sometimes things can get confusing, look what Gerry Vassilatos book says below and John's post... This was also discussed on monopole Yahoo groups and was common knowledge on that group as well... Sorry but we need to be on the same page.

Dave Wing

The switch closure event is real, but it is still different than what is in the Bedini/Cole notes.

In a HV DC system, when a switch is moving towards the closed position, that voltage will jump the gap in the switch when the gap in the switch gets to a distance that is at the voltage's dielectric breakdown value. If the voltage is at 5kv and it is in open dry air, that "spike" will be the voltage jumping when the switch gets to about 1mm. That voltage is just looking for a closed path.

But there is also the radiant matter (radiant electricity) that exits the wires when suddenly hit with that HV impulse and not just the hv shock from being part of a grounding rod when closing a hv switch.

Here are some other quotes from Secrets of Cold War Technology that come after the page you posted - other parts to the switch closure event.

"Tesla understood that the resistance of lines or components, viewed
from the dynamo end, seemed to be an impossible "barrier" for charge carriers
to penetrate. This barrier caused the "bunching" effect. Electrostatic charges
were literally stopped and held for an instant by line resistance, a barrier which
only existed during the brief millisecond interval in which the power switch
was closed. The sudden force application against this virtual barrier squeezed
charge into a density impossible to obtain with ordinary capacitors. It was the
brief application of power, the impact of charge against the resistance barrier,
which brought this abnormal electro-densified condition. This is why the conductive
wires in his present experiment often exploded."

"The sudden quick closure of the switch now brought a penetrating shockwave
throughout the laboratory, one which could be felt both as a sharp pressure
and a penetrating electrical irritation."

"Tesla believed that material particles approaching
the vapor state were literally thrust out of the wires in all directions."

"The stings lasting for a small fraction of
a second, the instant of switch closure. But Tesla believed that these strange
effects were a simple effect of ionized shockwaves in the air, rather like a
strongly ionized thunderclap."

"Tesla devised a new series of experiments to measure the shockwave pressure
from a greater distance. He required an automatic "trip switch". With this
properly arranged, a more controlled and repetitious triggering of the effect
was possible. In addition, this arrangement permitted distant observations which
might cast more light on the shied-permeating phenomenon. Controlling the
speed of the high voltage dynamo controlled the voltage. With these components
properly adjusted, Tesla was able to walk around his large gallery spaces
and make observations. Wishing also to avoid the continuous pressure barrage
and its stinging sparks, Tesla shielded himself with several materials. The
arrangement of rapidly interrupted high voltage direct currents resulted in the
radiation of stinging rays which could be felt at great distances from their
super-sparking source. In fact, Tesla felt the stings right through the shields!
Whatever had been released from the wires during the instant of switch closure,
successfully penetrated the shields of glass and of copper. It made no
difference, the effect permeated each substance as if the shield were not there
at all. Here was an electrical effect which communicated directly through space
without material connections. Radiant electricity!"

"RADIANT ELECTRICITY
Through successive experimental arrangements, Tesla discovered several
facts concerning the production of his effect. First, the cause was undoubtedly
found in the abruptness of charging. It was in the switch closure, the very
instant of "closure and break", which thrust the effect out into space. The effect
was definitely related to time, IMPULSE time. Second, Tesla found that it was
imperative that the charging process occurred in a single impulse. No reversal
of current was permissible, else the effect would not manifest."

Is it believed that John's machines are utilizing this effect? He's using the free "radiant" potential, but everything electrical does that anyway including a flashlight. Anywhere there is a dipole, it's polarizing the aether and anywhere the dipoles gives a conductive path between the terminals, there is EMF (Heaviside Flow). For the radiant matter effect, John's machines are all too low of voltage and the switches are on for way too long. The free energy in John's machines are coming from the magnetic fields. The voltage will always rise when there is enough back pressure and if this is the "spike" that people are seeing during switch closure, that doesn't mean it is causing a radiant matter emission, which is the whole point to Tesla's Radiant Electricity. I think Peter covered this in his presentation Tesla's Radiant Energy.

The closest thing that I've seen that has the potential to demonstrate the radiant matter effect is my plasma ignition motor - I just haven't tried to exploit that at the gap. It's an analogy of the Gray Tube patent and is speculated that the 4000v 2uf caps rapidly discharging into the rods in the tubes and then shut off will give these radiant matter explosions that are then intercepted by the grids surrounding those rods. And if that is what Gray was really doing, then why are there zero reports (that I know of - Mark McKay would know) of anyone experiencing the stinging effects when near the tubes when the motor was running?

The other is Mark McKay's replication of Eric Dollard's experiment: http://www.gestaltreality.com/energy...by-mark-mckay/

[Aaron Murakami]

Caps are good for pre-current spikes while inductors are good for collapsing spikes.

Caps are what Tesla used to further exploit the radiant matter effect.

[Aaron Murakami]

Sounds interesting, I might need to read that a few more times to understand what is being said though.

I don't want to sound mysterious or coy but not everything I have learned gets posted. I generally will post fundamental aspects and leave the rest for someone to play with if they wish. There are many ways to expand on the "cap dancing" method I described but the basic idea is what I presented.

I tell you what that reminds me off in a way,, the EARLY work that Mr. Bearden put out in reference to Mr. Bedini's methods. Especially the idea of fast switching and separating the ION flow and the Electron flow into separate open paths. You can charge and run a load at the same time with proper switching. Sometimes we get lucky and hit a sub harmonic. Part of what I was doing in some of my suggestions with varying your pulse rather than the same thing over and over was with that in mind, if your really lucky you may hit the proper frequency and tickle sub harmonics of it too.

That is a quote from the other forum - I read through your experiments. That would be a good video presentation for YouTube.

John has talked about separating these flows and got into the Phi Dot flow to charge batteries, etc... has anyone actually seen it work?

[Aaron Murakami]

This was my green event:

[min2oly]

Hi guys, about the spike event, is evident that the one we see on the scope on the coil is the one that appears when the coil is turned off. But I have also always understood from John's website that the radiant appears before the current, when coil is turned ON.

I also saw the EFTV movie where is shown that the radiant appears first , green flash on cap discharge. Which I can also see if I short a cap manually with a wire. Also in my gen coils when I short the wires by hand while spinning I can also see the green flash there sometimes.

So I assume that the visible spike on the scope when coil collapses is one thing, and there is the other event that should happen when coil is energized and is not visible on the scope.

Best

Alvaro

I can see "the other event that should happen when coil is energized" on my scope. You will not see this in a Vanilla SSG. This is different than the green glow of a cap being shorted.

[AlvaroHN]

Patrick, what do you do to see the spike before the current on the scope?

[Dave Wing]

Is it believed that John's machines are utilizing this effect? He's using the free "radiant" potential, but everything electrical does that anyway including a flashlight. Anywhere there is a dipole, it's polarizing the aether and anywhere the dipoles gives a conductive path between the terminals, there is EMF (Heaviside Flow). For the radiant matter effect, John's machines are all too low of voltage and the switches are on for way too long. The free energy in John's machines are coming from the magnetic fields. The voltage will always rise when there is enough back pressure and if this is the "spike" that people are seeing during switch closure, that doesn't mean it is causing a radiant matter emission, which is the whole point to Tesla's Radiant Electricity. I think Peter covered this in his presentation Tesla's Radiant Energy.

Hi Aaron

John has said this... That is why it is believed. I also have seen Solid state SSG and the zero force motors can produce a spike going negative, of course they are two different machines.

When John gave his demonstration of the zero force motor and inserting an iron sleeve into the coil it, the spike went way negative and the current dropped out of the input... The machine started to generate, because of the iron inserted in the core, is this and the SSG example below not what we are looking for when you talk about "The free energy in John's machines are coming from the magnetic fields"?

I have tried to get a self triggered SSG to work in the Zero Force motor configuration and it would not trigger on a air core until I inserted iron in the core, then it ran as expected. The major point is... it would not generate enough to trigger a trigger pulse without the iron core. Maximizing your machines generation capabilities is the ticket, erfinder put me on to this point and I spent many hours studying these things and one device that blew it wide open for me was the pendulum, the explanation in the Kromrey papers and those old radio Bill Jenkins shows, in it John Bedini discusses and or describes the pendulum operation with generation capabilities as well. Look for what Kromrey said about attraction and generation, to me these are key points. Key points used in the SSG to be specific. Here is the link...http://rexresearch.com/infolios/kromrey.pdf

Here is a SSG drawing that I drew with the waveform also included, going negative. It can dump to the primary or the secondary. It still lost primary voltage when hooked up across the primary because I needed more coil surface area, I have not had time to do so.



Aaron I am not coming at you... Hope you are not thinking that... I am of course still learning just like anyone and I do not have all the answers by any means. Often I can become confused and always welcome the chance to reason out until truth prevails. So are any of these things I brought up in this post to be a move in the right direction?




Dave Wing

[BobZilla]

I always liked that cap dump of yours. I hoped at the time it might spark the conversation of the dipole a bit further. I can’t find where you show the pre-current spike, can you provide link?

The spike I see in my scope is just as big as the spike after the current. As I’ve described it, I have only been able to produce with resistance (a coil). The Vanilla SSG will not be able to produce it. I cannot see it in my scope by using a cap to battery as you describe. I must be missing something.

So, you have a cap with potential XXX and you want to connect it to the battery with potential X.

So are you saying in order for both the pre-current and after current spike to show up, the switching has to extremely fast?

Or - in order for the pre-current spike to show up at all the switching has to be fast?

My common sense would tell me that the pre-current spike should show up regardless of the on time of the switch and that it is the after current spike that needs some coaxing?
None of this is common sense though right :-)
KR-Patrick

There is a lot being said here and it's hard to keep up but I wanted to at least try and answer you directly Patrick out of the great respect I have for all of the good work you have shared over the years. It would just be very rude not to try and answer you so here goes.

The super fast switching is not necessary in my opinion to manifest either the pre or post current spike but you did pick up on me praising fast switching so I see how you might think I was saying that is conditional for one or the other to appear but the speed is just to use it to the highest advantage.

I actually don't want to get too hung up on pre and post spike because it's difficult to truly know for sure exactly whats going on anyway. Some may say it's a big spike at the end from the magnetic field collapsing, others might think it is a big spike just before the current starts to flow but we could all debate that for the next 10 years and still not all be in agreement. Again in my opinion which obviously anything I say is lol but we get both and they are so darn close together that we may as well just think in terms of both of them anyway. You not really going to get one without the other.

I would say that maybe take a second look at the 400v potential that that cap was manifesting on that old thread and ponder a bit on the whole situation there. I didn't make much of a big deal on that but it does speak to this very topic. I would also say that of the two kinds of spikes we are talking about here voltage or more properly said the potential increases radiant harvesting for both. In other words we all know from changing from 12 to 24v on any of our machines we see a lot more of the good stuff, or also increasing the potential between a cap and a battery, potential always plays it's part but it's cousin current does not need to. With the cap it was raised to a high potential and then fluttered off/on very fast so as not to allow much current to flow, as little as possible.To get instead of one pop to the battery with that potential of 45v, 50 pops instead. Current flows of course but you see the advantage if your only looking at the potential and how many make/break's I can buy with each cap fill up. At the time most people would charge up to say 30v and dunp that down in ONE shot to say 15v and then let the cap fill again and do it again,, well that was two dipoles where I would take 100 for the same potential. Hopefully your with me on that.

So lets think a moment on that 400v that showed up on the cap because of it. This was not the result of a heavy magnetic field collapsing now was it, it's not a coil after all. Sure there is some magnetism going on so don't jump me guys but it's not an electromagnet collapsing a heavily pumped up field. This is the pre current voltage. The other post current spike comes more from coils as I was trying to say. Usually you will not get much pre current spike, there will be some because there always is, but for the most part we are doing it the other way by pumping up a big old field in the coil and letting it snap back on itself.

I am finding it difficult to really explain this how I would like to but anyway just some thoughts from my perspective. Great conversation here guys it's good to see people active.

[Faraday88]

Hi Aaron

John has said this... That is why it is believed. I also have seen Solid state SSG and the zero force motors can produce a spike going negative, of course they are two different machines.

When John gave his demonstration of the zero force motor and inserting an iron sleeve into the coil it, the spike went way negative and the current dropped out of the input... The machine started to generate, because of the iron inserted in the core, is this and the SSG example below not what we are looking for when you talk about "The free energy in John's machines are coming from the magnetic fields"?

I have tried to get a self triggered SSG to work in the Zero Force motor configuration and it would not trigger on a air core until I inserted iron in the core, then it ran as expected. But it would not generate enough to trigger a trigger pulse without the iron core. Maximizing your machines generation capabilities is the ticket, erfinder put me on to this point and I spent many hours studying these things and one device that blew it wide open for me was the pendulum, the explanation in the Kromrey papers and those old radio Bill Jenkins shows, in it John Bedini discusses and or describes the pendulum operation with generation capabilities as well. Look for what Kromrey said about attraction and generation, to me these are key points. Key points used in the SSG to be specific. Here is the link...http://rexresearch.com/infolios/kromrey.pdf

Here is a SSG drawing that I drew with the waveform also included, going negative. It can dump to the primary or the secondary. It still lost primary voltage when hooked up across the primary because I needed more coil surface area, I have not had time to do so.



Aaron I am not coming at you... Hope you are not thinking that... I am of course still learning just like anyone and I do not have all the answers by any means. Often I can become confused and always welcome the chance to reason out until truth prevails. So are any of these things I brought up in this post to be a move in the right direction?




Dave Wing

Hi Dave,
In my previous post i did mention it to Aaron that the N-face of the Magnet towards the coil core is the Natural Geometry for the Magnet's movement towards it and not at 90 degree, hence you flipp the Magnet at 90 degree (twice mutually) to fit for the direction for this Geometry.. does this not teach us what is it that we are doing ??? if you could make the magnet move inwards towards the coil inside i think that is all what we need!! but as i said it posses an Engineering challange but it can be done..! (btw this what is depcited in Stanley Meyer's EPG Magnetic circuit also!!), before we even get any further it has to be well borne in mind that the Bedini SSG/SG is an Accelerator machine which picks up speed with time (like a typical Particle Accelerator)and speed increase with time is the Energy gain! ofcourse the speed stabilizes at a point (since we have have scaled it to that level) the Radiant gain in the Battery is the Corresponding Electrical Equivalent of this ''Increase'' in the Speed of the machine.
The Natural Geometry posses another challenge in that the Increase in speed translates an orbital shift (imagine a Cyclotron) which makes the Magent confinement more difficult, hence John Bedini came up with this alternative arrangement to have the 'Rotor geometry constant, while have the Magneto-Interaction Dynamic by way of altered Magnetic Structure (Geometry)
Here it is again for all.
Rgds,
Faraday88.

[Aaron Murakami]

John has said this... That is why it is believed. I also have seen Solid state SSG and the zero force motors can produce a spike going negative, of course they are two different machines.

When John gave his demonstration of the zero force motor and inserting an iron sleeve into the coil it, the spike went way negative and the current dropped out of the input... The machine started to generate, because of the iron inserted in the core, is this and the SSG example below not what we are looking for when you talk about "The free energy in John's machines are coming from the magnetic fields"?

I have tried to get a self triggered SSG to work in the Zero Force motor configuration and it would not trigger on a air core until I inserted iron in the core, then it ran as it should. But it would not generate enough to trigger a trigger pulse without the iron core.

Here is a SSG drawing that I drew with the waveform also included, going negative. It can dump to the primary or the secondary. It still lost primary voltage when hooked up across the primary because I needed more coil surface area, I have not had time to do so.

Hi Dave,

I don't think you're coming at me - not in the slightest bit and I welcome all of it. There are however various clarifications that I think need to be addressed and defined because as you said, we need to be on the same page. I also don't have all the answers anyway as I stated in my first post and want to get the conversation going. I do have some for sure things I'll continue to share that wasn't left go guesswork when John shared them with me.

When you say the solid state SSG and ZFM produce a negative spike - now are you talking about during power on or power off?

For the power on spike effect, I searched to see if there was a transistor equivelant to switch bounce. With a manual switch, switch bounce will chop the power off and on and cause these spikes because if there is an inductor, that inductor is also discharging as it charges some and then discharges causing a spike(s) when turning it on. Many of those spikes can be less than 1 microsecond. There is something called Ground Bounce with transistors:

"In electronic engineering, ground bounce is a phenomenon associated with transistor switching where the gate voltage can appear to be less than the local ground potential, causing the unstable operation of a logic gate.

Ground bounce is usually seen on high density VLSI where insufficient precautions have been taken to supply a logic gate with a sufficiently low resistance connection (or sufficiently high capacitance) to ground. In this phenomenon, when the gate is turned on, enough current flows through the emitter-collector circuit that the silicon in the immediate vicinity of the emitter is pulled high, sometimes by several volts, thus raising the local ground, as perceived by the transistor, to a value significantly above true ground. Relative to this local ground, the BASE voltage can go negative, thus shutting off the transistor. As the excess local charge dissipates, the transistor turns back on, possibly causing a repeat of the phenomenon, sometimes up to a half-dozen bounces."

I don't know if that is what is happening but wanted to add that. The single transistor is not a microchip where it sounds like the ground bounce happens more often but it might be plausible that it causes the power on spike in any of these circuits. Coils that are rapidly charged can have power on spikes so that could be the source as well. Is the emf experiencing back pressure as it is applied to the coil and then the flow is established? If so, then that will raise its voltage higher than the source when the switch closes. In both cases, does anyone have an elegant solution to doing something with it? It would be taking it before it can be used so would that take away from what is needed for the applied charge?

John has mentioned the radiant that flows before current starts to flow when the power station operator closes the switch. That is a reference to early inspirations of Tesla's radiant matter electricity. But, radiant matter explosions are not created or used in John's machines. John has said for years the spike on the collapse is pure radiant potential, but anyone with a scope can see there is a small width to it meaning there is a little current associated with it. I think the primary point is that there is the emf (heaviside flow) that can exist without electron current, which is a component of Tesla's radiant matter process.

If we look at what the emf is made of, it is polarized and condensed positive "virtual photons" if you want to use Bearden's terminology that moves to the + terminal of the battery and flows over the wire towards ground. Being that there is 2 difference voltages - voltage potential - the pressure of that gas sitting a terminal of a dipole and then emf, the actual moving flow of that gas, which under normal circumstances is what potentializes and attracts the electrons from the copper atoms and attracts them towards the positive terminal. This is Bearden 101 so you I'm just preaching to the choir, but am posting for clarification.

So if that is what the EMF is, which can exist both with or without electron current, this gets compressed to a higher voltage potential when the coil turns off and that is how John is utilizing the same stuff that flows before current flows. He's sending it to a battery directly hitting with the a "potential charge" - the voltage push and the primary current develops in the battery on its own, which wasn't supplied by the circuit. John said there were 5-7 different currents flowing in a battery simultaneously so that gets complex. In any case, knowing what that stuff is that can flow before current flows lets us see how it is being used. The spike when the coil turns off is how it has been used and even if there is the spike when the power is turned on doesn't mean it is useful or is being used. The reference to the switch being closed causing it is to define that there is a flow that can move over the circuit before electron current moves.

@Bobzilla, I don't understand your circuit well and am have never used Adruino, but what you're mentioning to Patrick is the other way it is being used. It's still that potential charge to a battery where you don't supply current if you can slap that cap on the battery fast enough before current flows. Like I said I'm not familiar with what you were doing with it but sounds like you are rapidly blasting it multiple times to a battery in the same time that someone could dump it once - so you're taking multiple slices from it in the same time.

If we're just using a potential charge without current - if we have a cap charged to 50 volts and we hit the battery fast enough and if it only drops to 45 volts for example and not a full discharge, we hit the battery with 50 volts of pure potential. We only have to charge it 5 volts and not the whole fifty and can keep repeating so that we hit the battery with 50 volts of potential each time but we're only paying for 5 volts. Since we're not interested in actually getting the cap to charge with current, we don't need it discharged - just hitting the battery with polarized pressure. That's the idea anyway. This is basically the way this concept was always discussed at John's shop. However, I've never really seen this happen in its purest form. Look at these hundreds of amps peak current pulses from John's cap discharge circuits - electrical or mechanical - and you can see that the batteries are getting charged with serious impulse currents and not potential. Charging with spikes is a different story, but I haven't seen a cap make and break fast enough to prevent a significant current rush.

Maybe your computer controlled system can do it, I don't have experience with microcontrollers, etc. Actually I think Paul Babcock's switching circuits if tweaked for this application could be fast enough that there would be an extremely small amount of discharge to give a battery a real potential charge from a cap. If so, the caps can be topped up with flea power.

@Dave - you and everyone here probably already know this but this is the basic method that gave the best self running results I ever saw John achieve - or I should say that commutator method where caps were charged and then discharged to the front battery every 1/xth of the rotation - NOT this same circuit but with cap charger - large cap bank and mechanical switch:

[Aaron Murakami]

front feedback

Here is a video of the commutator - serious Hollywood production here That was about 10 years ago but I posted it a couple years back on that account I think.

My results weren't that great because you can see my ultra low budget build, but John's kept the front battery up for very long times - may have even climbed - I don't know what the long term results were, but that is how he sent recovery back to the front. I don't recall if that was in the 2nd SG or any books or not. He did that at the "Palace" building he was in and was before Peter moved to Spokane so that must have been around 2001.

I'm not getting comments on my space flux motor posts or the other stuff - not sure if anyone is interested in that kind of stuff but its a window into John's early on perspective going back to the 1970's.

[Deuis]

Hi Aaron,

Ive been building a mechanically commutated machine on another thread if you would like to put this video there that would be great.
Have you seen many commutators around? did anyone besides JB have a serious machine up and running?
Any tips or pointers would be great. I'm running a 24 segment commutator which gives me 12 degrees slots for coarse tuning and a rotating card for fine tuning.

Here is a video of the commutator - serious Hollywood production here That was about 10 years ago but I posted it a couple years back on that account I think.

My results weren't that great because you can see my ultra low budget build, but John's kept the front battery up for very long times - may have even climbed - I don't know what the long term results were, but that is how he sent recovery back to the front. I don't recall if that was in the 2nd SG or any books or not. He did that at the "Palace" building he was in and was before Peter moved to Spokane so that must have been around 2001.

I'm not getting comments on my space flux motor posts or the other stuff - not sure if anyone is interested in that kind of stuff but its a window into John's early on perspective going back to the 1970's.

[Aaron Murakami]

Hi Aaron,

Ive been building a mechanically commutated machine on another thread if you would like to put this video there that would be great.
Have you seen many commutators around? did anyone besides JB have a serious machine up and running?
Any tips or pointers would be great. I'm running a 24 segment commutator which gives me 12 degrees slots for coarse tuning and a rotating card for fine tuning.

Feel free to post the YouTube link - video is horrible but shows the idea.

Joseph Newman made serious use of commutators - complicated ones.

John's best self running results always seemed to be with mechanical switches.

[Faraday88]

Feel free to post the YouTube link - video is horrible but shows the idea.

Joseph Newman made serious use of commutators - complicated ones.

John's best self running results always seemed to be with mechanical switches.

Commutator switching is only for one type of ''Conversion'' the Bedini SSG energiser is a Magnetoelectrically triggered 'timing device''
for the Dual counterpart of the ''Conversion'' this is accompalished using a Transistor only that JB introduced.
I personally do not know of any other mechanism that does this.
Rgds,
Faraday88.