Plasma Ignition | Plasma Jet Ignition

[Floris]

Hello Aaron,

How is your project going? Mine is on hold for now, its to cool here in Holland, since i do my project outside.

I was looking at this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3x_kYq3mHM Supercaps as car starter. I have a question:

I have bought 6x 2,7V 500F caps from banggoods. Do you think if i put the caps in parellel with my car battery, there is an improvement for the MSD 5520 CDI?
I have read somewhere that the internal resistance of a car battery is around 5 ohms. If i put the caps on it, the CDI has fast power at will

Cheers!

Hi Co creator,

Why do you think the MSD would benefit from these extra caps? A healthy flooded battery will have an internal resistance of under 5 mOhm (mili). The internal resistance of your battery is low enough to supply all the current it needs. Then, the MSD uses a designated circuit to charge the capacitor inside the unit and MSD units draw around two-five amps when operating. Just my 2c.

It is nice though to have that cap bank ready, its a real nice lightweight starthelp in winter.

greeting from Holland

[Faraday88]

Pulser Plasma Engine

Hi Aaron and others,

I suggest the group here to view this very interseting video on the You-tube (search for Pulser Plasma engine), this is supposedly a ''refinement'' of the Papp
Engine, Heinz Kolstermann and team claim to have acheived the similar Kinetic Energy out of A Plasma Triggerd expolsion system that uses nothing but Atmoistpheric Air as the only 'reactant in the Plasma thruster.
The system involves similar triggering mechanism of enhanced spark by Pulsed Capacitor Discharge like the Aaron's Plasma Ignition (3 point gap)
attached here is a document for the same.
Lightning-harnessed-Infinite-Magazine-2003-copy.pdf
Rgds,
Faraday88.

[Faraday88]

Hi Faraday is this the post you wanted me to read on this thread I am sorry I missed it, at my first glance, and thought you wanted my advice on electronics or something like that.

Have you contacted the rohnerengineering about this engine.

[email protected]

What inert gas do you think he might have used, it seems in the description he is using air, compressing and igniting it etc. It would need an endothermic and exothermic type reaction, dont you think.

I can advise on circuit layout improvements if that is what you were referrring to. I was an expert in power systems in one of my earlier jobs, so know a trick or two, that dont get taught in schools or most engineering courses

Hi Andy,
Thank for your attention! Yes this group is very convencing as far as i'm concerned on many aspect of the Effect of deriving Kinetic Energy from Pulsed Plasma Ignition systems..First of all the fact that it is not an effect due to exoctic Gases although i still reserve that a certain proportion of Rare gases (Noble)mixture does some addtional enhancment from the elemenatry front. But Majorly the effect is possiable with any Gas... Secondly, the need of RF energy to cause Plasma initiation (Indcutivily coupled Plasma Discharges ICP) is again a red herring right from the Papp Patent..thirdly and most essesntialy this effect is no different from the E.V Gray Motor..the only thing that is foucused is the effect caused by the 'Load'Inductance which is the Plasma Pulse that is again Maganetically (z-pinch) squeezed in the Pulse compression phase. yes E.v Gray used that the Load Inducatcne's Magnetic Repulsion to get the Torque /Thrust, while Papp is using this Inductance-system to produce the associated Plasma (Back e.mf Energy if i may term it that way) to do the same...
i'm keen to know what trick that is unconventional in the school teachings that you would like to show us here...please go ahead and present it for us..
Rgds,
Faraday88

[Faraday88]

Some little tricks. All wires have typically 10nH/m inductance; when switching fast currents di/dt this matters, cable runs matter. The normal practice is to keep cable runs short, and use parallel bus bars, with low inductance capacitors, in the DC Bus connection in combination with Electrolytics or maybe super capacitors today. The parallel busbars should connect directly to the capacitor terminals, then as close as possible to the power transistors. Any power tracks on double sided circuit boards should have the 0V on one side aligned with the switched output on the other. Any gate or base drive circuits should be connected directly to the gate and have a separate track for the 0V as close to the transistor as possible, The power connections should be separate, even if they join at the semiconductor. Diodes have different switching characteristics depending on both the level of voltage and current being switched, if you use a 100Amp diode and switch it at 50Amps, it can oscillate at around 10MHz whereas when switched at 100Amps, it has almost a critical damping response. If you just pick a random diode it wont work as good as one specifically chosen to match the circuit. The benefit of using the parallel busbars is that they cancel out most of the inductive kick. Different transistor technologies all so help with this, an IGBT and transistor have a tale current, when switched off. This suppresses the inductive spike. A Mosfet does not have a tale current and often need a little bit of suppression, to prevent them killing themselves. The Level of drive voltage or base current significantly affects the conduction losses on and switching speed of power switching devices, and the short circuit capability. If you supply 20V on a IGBT gate the resistance of the device drops, and the short circuit capability goes with it, rather than 10us, you are down to 5us or less depending on manufacturer. The upside being you can switch faster and have lower conduction losses. If parallel busbars cant be used, twisted pairs are a fall back on thinner cable etc.

An alternative for the car ignition system using super capacitors might be to use a small solar panel on the car dashboard rather than a small battery to maintain the charge, of the capacitors. You could still run the radio.

Ref the Papp engine, with your plasma squeeze, to put it into terms of lightning. You are taking a lightning ball and squashing it, like what happened at tunguska, on a smaller scale. The Plasma spark produces positrons and electrons which manage to stay separate as the piston goes down creating an increased vacuum, then when you squeeze the electrons and positrons together as the piston goes up. It goes bang you have a mini tunguska in a tube.

The gas inside the Papp engine is not given on the data sheet. It must be able to be compressed down and expanded, there is no exhaust, or inlet. The pistons may be working in a vacuum, not with any particular kind of gas. It is not stated on the pdf you attached. There is an email address, did you try contacting them, do you have anymore information you have not shared here.

Rgds

Andy

Hi Andy,
Thanks for that little class on your hands on experiance in design criteria..
About the Pappa Engine stuff and the pdf I attached, actually i stumbled accross this group when i was studying Papp Videos on the you tube.. but what is very interesteing is that they are promoting their undertstanding on a Air-based Plasma explaosion engine whih could be much the same as what Papp originally did..only with a red herring of the Nobel gas mixture..im currently having some ideas on what these guys might be doing i this system..will share with the group here once im convinced.
Aaron has one way of triggering the expolsion while these guys have another iteration (or even Papp had the same) as you suggest i need to contact these guys to learn more if they are willing to share..
Rgds,
Faraday88.

[Faraday88]

They provided an email contact address etc, they must want to communicate. I look forward to reading how they respond.

Hey Andy,
Go Ahead let us know what you get hear from them...
Rgds,
Faraday88.

[heysoundude]

Hello Aaron,

How is your project going? Mine is on hold for now, its to cool here in Holland, since i do my project outside.

I was looking at this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3x_kYq3mHM Supercaps as car starter. I have a question:

I have bought 6x 2,7V 500F caps from banggoods. Do you think if i put the caps in parellel with my car battery, there is an improvement for the MSD 5520 CDI?
I have read somewhere that the internal resistance of a car battery is around 5 ohms. If i put the caps on it, the CDI has fast power at will

Cheers!

I would think that you would see a gain in fuel efficiency, but not from the power supplied to the CDI; because the capacitors charge so quickly compared to the battery, it's possible your alternator won't need to work as hard, so it might not load the engine as much...power to the road, not the electrics...fuel savings. (The charge/discharge characteristics of capacitors are what make the Bedini-designed solar battery charger/rejuvenators Aaron advocates so effective/efficient, after all)

that lasersaber guy has some neat stuff! In any vehicle, cutting the weight of the electrical energy storage unit (battery) will translate into a miniscule fuel consumption and emissions reduction in the short term, but over a long period will compound nicely, especially with wider adoption...

[Co-Creator]

Hi Aaron and others,

I suggest the group here to view this very interseting video on the You-tube (search for Pulser Plasma engine), this is supposedly a ''refinement'' of the Papp
Engine, Heinz Kolstermann and team claim to have acheived the similar Kinetic Energy out of A Plasma Triggerd expolsion system that uses nothing but Atmoistpheric Air as the only 'reactant in the Plasma thruster.
The system involves similar triggering mechanism of enhanced spark by Pulsed Capacitor Discharge like the Aaron's Plasma Ignition (3 point gap)
attached here is a document for the same.
[ATTACH]5702[/ATTACH]
Rgds,
Faraday88.

Hello Faraday, now that's indeed the real deal... what an awesome invention, here is the link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNSAXbZfnbE

[Faraday88]

Hello Faraday, now that's indeed the real deal... what an awesome invention, here is the link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNSAXbZfnbE

Hi Co-creator,
Yes Bulls eye man! notice in the demonstration that no compression phase is required, all that appears is a simple enchanced Spark-Discharge like the Aaron method.what is different..! is the kinetic thrust that it produces on triggering. The other aspect of this set up is the 50Turns Coil wound over the cylinder 17min.50sec in the video (this is not shown in the demo (appears hidden in the immidiate white delrin/teflon box), however in another working model one can notice clearly that some of the turns of the Coil that have freed themselves are strongly influenced by the force of interaction with the Magneto-Plasma inside)
it is worth exploring this system as it may reveal many other features of the Radiant/Plasma interactions.
Rgds,
Faraday88.

[Faraday88]

An Electromagnetic field could be used to contain the plasma charges, and stop them touching the walls of the cylinder. Could it be possible that moving -ve plasma charges are attracted to a magnetic field whilst +ve ones are repelled from a magnetic field. The magnetic field lines may have spin, which might repel +ve dipoles and attract -ve dipoles.

No has reponded to the emails for info, but if you look at the pistons they have an electrode which will draw the plasma along the cylinder as the piston descends. Once the arc is established at the top of the stroke the plasma will be difficult to extinguish. Another use for the electromagnet may be to extinguish the arc, as in high voltage circuit breakers.

Hi Andy ,
Just to add to our speculations... observe that the coils wound have to be over a Non-conducting and Non-Magnetic tubing or else the solenoid Field would get 'shorted'/shielded from it interaction with the Plasma inside.
Again,the field Strength of the solenoid is strongest at the edges and weakest at the centre or the Bloch wall of the coil(something like in the Gauss Gun). the video shows that they is a 50 T coil perhaps in layers of 2 or 3..
did you guys notice the jerks of the lose turns at 17:50 instance of the video??
I also speculate that the coil from an integral part of the Discharge Circuit..what say??
Rgds,
Faraday88.

[Faraday88]

Speculate no further than the data sheet you provided, Stainless steel 304 is low grade and slightly magnetic depending on the quality. Stainless Steel 416 and above is most definitely not magnetic. I think there is a typo in there spec sheet to stating it is magnetic. If you have a magnet to hand try it on 304, there will be an attraction on 416 you will get nothing. 416 is very high grade none magnetic stainless. 304 is low grade stainless and will rust if not treated.

Hi Andy,
I also said NON-CONDUCTING...the coil wound on a conducting cylinder is a 1 turn Dead- short..how do you account for that!!!? with a High-Frequency pulse burst this single turn is more than a dissipation path for the Energy excited. i belive the cylinder over which the coil is wound to be of a Ceramic type meterial.
the crux here is about the interaction between the coil's Field and the Plasma's Magnetic Field which as per me is most powerful (Magnetically)at the edges rather than that at the centre or along the centre from the Bloch wall of the coil's Magnetic Dipolarity.
but the key to this again is how are they excited..???? I am sure this is the essence of the entire mechanism involved...
I have few iterations of the Radiant circuit to try out, if this shows up something, than we have solved the Gray-Motor secret as well!! since i belive that even in the gray motor the place of the Load- Inductor is played by the Plasma Field.. Here is a link http://www.pureenergysystems.com/os/...iscussion/Rich
on the article on the E.V Gray saga where Mr. Richard Hackenberger one of the associate of Gray has infact stated the magnification effect due to Ionization Field in the Motor Cylinder. for some reason this link is'nt opening however i had it down loaded years ago during my research on the E.V Gray stuff. try your luck or i shall scan the same and present it here later..

Rgds,
Faraday88.

[Faraday88]

Speculating:- A coil wound on a iron magenetic core does not present a dead short to a magnetic field, it provides a path for the magnetic field, a none ferrous material will have a lower inductance than a normal core material. Also perhaps think solenoid arm it is metal and is ejected from a coil wound around it, when the solenoid is energised, by magnetic fields in the metal.

I missed the none conducting bit. But when dealing with radiant energy, it can as you know pass through concrete steel and wood on the edge of a pulse, as the electric field is stressed. It could work a little different on the coil, think Tesla!. Have you worked out the igntion sequence. From a plasma discharge the radiant energy field might pass straight through the stainless, it is not earthed, think EMC.

I will have time to study it later on to night. I posted a link under the lightning link to another forum, which covers a huge range of topics, and will take time to digest. There may be something there.

Your link did not work for me either.

Andy

Hi Andy,
You got me wrong.. I meant Electrical Short!! what will happen if you wind a coil over any Electrically conducting cylinder..classical example INDUCTION HEATING!!!!! or even a CAN CRUSHER!!! this is exactly what i'm trying to say..
Unless the cylinder has an Insulating gap or the cylinder itself of an Insulating meterial, it would not be a hot spot for Power dissipation.
as you point out, the ''short'' of the Cylinder could well be an integral part to invoke the Radiant!! I had this feature speculated in my mind even in the case of Stan Meyer's EPG tubing where the tube is made up of copper. much needs to be tried out more than speculation
About the link..I'm just baffled to find out that this very vital Technical Discussion paper by R. Hacken berger is just not to be found on the Internet, as i said I first saw it on Sterlling D Allen 's PES and fortunately had it printed out... if you wish to see this document will get it scanned.. lol!! the paper was missing and lucky me.. i found it.. let me know if you wuld like to view it..?
Rgds,
Faraday88.

[elizebethn4]

Would love to view the paper also. Any chance you can upload it on this forum please?

[Faraday88]

Yes I would like to read the paper, maybe somebody else has been able to download it. Some sites are blocked if you are viewing from different countries by big brother or some website providers.
Ref the materials used, I have considered the containment of anions and cations and or electrons and positrons inside of magnetic fields, electrostatic fields, a mixture of both, and using different materials. Using different materials the oppositely charged materials need to be kept seperated, so the charges can not be allowed to drift onto a conducting surface where they will lose their charge and get eaten. The electric field producing the plasma may serve to do this. However does the plasma need extinguishing as part of the cycle, if so a electromagnet may suffice to break the stream, or removing or discharging the electric field causing it. I have a speculation at this point ref the creation of matter, which I am posting on the lightning thread once im done here.

As an after thought speculating as lyk wot i du:- reversing the electric field separating the plasma charges would throw the opposite charges back against each other and possibly suck the piston back up the chamber before the plasma combines explodes and blows the piston in the opposite direction.

Faraday do you have pictures of the coils (protruding ) you mentioned on your previous post. Glass fibre can look like wire when covered in a thin layer of epoxy, and is none conductive, cheap and strong.

Rgds

Andy

Hi Andy,

I quote Enistein ''One should make things simple but not any simpler'' i gathered this quote recently and found it as an epiphany in the way we humans visualize/Speculate on various Theoratical front in Science.
Please do not mind, I find that you view at things from a wider perspective which perhaps complicates them from the essence, however you could be dead right on what you say but untill it is conveyed in Interpretational form that others cohere with, things remain hazzy.. what say?? I know I too have the similar Syndrome and had people bash at me when i take things too far from acceptance.That is how things are..
well... comming back to the coil jerking..yes i'm sure it is undoubltedly the coil that is set lose form its supposedly 50T windings. look carefully at 17minutes 50 sec instance in the Videohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3x_kYq3mHM it is shown for long enough time for us realize the same. let me know if not i shall post the snap shot..
Rgds,
Faraday88

[Faraday88]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3x_kYq3mHM is the link to the supercapictor youtube.

Maybe the snap would be good.

Rather than trying to copy someone elses design for a plasma engine, why not design from scratch taking a blank sheet of paper. We know we want a chain reaction, we know we want to be able to cause an explosion, we know we are dealing with plasma and an avalanche of electrons possibly producing positrons or at least leaving positively charged ions behind. This will work better in a vacuum i think. We can create a plasma in a cylinder, then either mechanically or electrostatically force it back together, to make it explode like a Mini Tunguska in a tube. How the resultant explosion is harvested, to create useable energy, is of interest. Is it better to use a traditional crank to convert linear energy to rotary movement, or could we Position coils around the outside of the cylinder aligned with magnets on the piston, to induce an electrical current to flow externally, as the piston moves directly from the explosion. F=B.e.v, i=L.di/dt spring to mind.

Ref quotes circa 500BC the Lord Buddha said "you must find your own light", or words to that effect. It was a bit before my time, and something may have been lost in the translation, or my memory.

It may be easier to design a plasma engine from scratch, and then compare what you come up with, with what has reportedly being made. We might come up with a better design, by understanding exactly what we are playing with.

Hi Andy,
Sorry.......here is the correct link : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNSAXbZfnbE
watch at 17 min 50 sec...let me know if still cannot spot what we duscussed...
Rgds,
Faraday88.

[Faraday88]

Yes spotted it.

What they are doing may be similar to what I suggested above. What do you say to designing a plasma engine from materials that are easily obtainable, easy to machine and manufacture. Just use a double acting piston in a tube.

Great! what i meant about the materials is about the Ceramic types that is Mechanically strong and Electrically Insulating..but that is as long as we have figuered out as to what the exactly is Circuit topology to have the Magneto-Plasma interaction with Explosive (Repulsive) result.. i'm sure i shall have it figured out sooner or later..btw this would also be the Answer to Stan's Water Fuel Injector technology (not Water fuel cell) Just a summary below:
Joe Papp __________ Nobel gas Plasma engine ----- Carrier Fuel Nobel Gases
E.V Gray ___________ Pulsed Capacitor Discharge Electric Engine---- Carrier Fuel :Air
Stanley Meyer _______ Thermal Explosive Energy ( SparkPlug replacement!) ---Carrier Fuel : Water/Air
Kolstermann/Team_______________ Pulser Engine.-----Carrier Fuel : Air
Rgds,
Faraday88.