Monopole Magnets

[erfinder]

Erfinder
you and I have not seen eye to eye on a few things, and that is alright. I am speaking about a specific machine and it's function and what the magnets are for. the fact that you can run the monopole circuit in solid state (no magnets just forced oscillation) is proof that is not designed as a GENERATOR if you load it down the way it is built, it slows down then stops. a generator consists of a prime mover of some kind and then windings and a stator that generates electricity to power loads. the generator action of the core and trigger is al it is there for. you need to be careful here, telling people its a generator, and saying there is a generator action are 2 different things.

You are right Tom, we don't agree on many things, and this is alright. I didn't make the post to get into a pissing contest with you or anyone else. I'm sure you know full well that I know you were describing a specific machine and its function. Lets not play that game. The fact that you can run a monopole circuit in solid state is not proof that its not designed as a generator, for here we are still capitalizing on effects associated with changing fields! My motor generators are also designed to reduce their consumption when loaded mechanically, we don't need to get into why my system does this, but I will say that I was inspired by the SG, the difference is I get the exact same behavior without the inductive trigger. This drop in consumption when mechanically loaded is not to be brushed off, it is significant. The device shouldn't stop when you apply the proper impedance, proper here doesn't extend to mechanical loading. The circuit should be allowed to match on its own, something that the SG also does to a certain degree. I have noted that a device can drop to a crawl in RPM, along with its consumption, but will not stop, another key point to look for, heaviest load possible for least consumption, the reverse of what we are instructed to look for. There is more than one type of generator action to consider, in the rotor based setup you have two to consider, in the solid state system one.

You state that "a generator consists of a prime mover of some kind and then windings and stator that generates electricity to power loads." First, in my view, motors are generators and generators are motors, this is the basic premise. This perspective is important for it lays the foundation for how we can view generators "motors" in the future. Upon closer examination, we find that there is no such thing as a motor, what we have can be summed up as being a "powered generator". An electricity producing apparatus which is forced to produce a mechanical output. The thing which is well established in the literature, but often forgotten by the researcher, is that the device never stops functioning as a generator, and it matters little how you have the device configured. Another problem that I have noted is that we see the generated as an output instead of what it is. The mechanism responsible for the induced potential is there to limit current. Your motor is a generator and always is a generator, it has an electrical output which we call BEMF, this electrical output is directed against the supply. We are told that the BEMF cannot exceed the applied and this is simply not true. The induced can be made to exceed the applied and I have demonstrated this on more than one occasion. If you didn't see that, its not my problem Tom. I don't need to be careful, you need to be careful, the device is a generator, as I stated, not a very good one but a generator nonetheless. That is how I see it, and I am calling it like I see it. The facts don't lie, and common sense goes a long way in situations like these..

if you want the wheel to power loads by means of rotational torque off the SG then go ahead use neo magnets, change the coil configuration, change the power source and add your pulleys and whizbangs. the window motor would do you a lot better as a prime mover to spin a muller gen type arrangement. as a matter of fact build a muller dynamo like romero uk did and off to the races you go. there are thousands of replications and different ways to work once you understand the basic machine, including yours, which no one can replicate because they do not have your understanding of your circuit and its topology and which you refuse to share. so please tell us EXACTLY how you do it share with everyone please, how you use neo's in your circuit and how you stack them, your coil topology and wiring, and how you and when and where to switch.

Your first few words contain all the proof that I need that you have no idea what you are talking about, nor do you comprehend what I am saying. I want the consumption to drop when the proper impedance is added, just like we note in the SG. It's sad that you don't comprehend what this symbolizes.

There are thousands of replications of devices and concepts that have brought us nothing. I am not into wasting my time or that of my fellow researcher. The fact that one guy, and I love that guy for it, got the effects I shared through his own effort is proof that more than enough information was provided. You didn't get it, that's your problem, not mine. Each and every question that you ask was answered time and time again, you want a blueprint, and that's just not going to happen, not sure if it would do you any good to have one anyway.

the peanut gallery is waiting for YOU to shar! you my friend are not the peanut gallery you are one who has claimed to have found "IT" so rather than complain about it not being shared, open up your secrets to the peanut gallery and let them judge the merits of your discovery.

just to be clear you said:

"I do accept the arguments against the use of Neos in designs that are presented by the inventor" what the hell else am I talking about? don't use neo's in the vanilla SG. that is what was being asked about not anything else.

so show us how you do it, the world will be forever grateful,,,

You are right Tom, we dont agree on many things, and this is alright.

Tom C

Is that why you post Tom? So your peers can judge you? I post because I feel "I" have something to say that they may find interesting, something they may find useful. Before you demand anything of me, demand these things of the individuals who inspired my seeking for answers. I seek because they aren't disclosing. You aren't seeking, you are parroting, beating the dead horse. My discovery is their discovery and you wonder why we aren't on the same page......

Regarding your out of context quote, there are exceptions. You must keep in mind Tom that you were never told what this whole thing is about, no one was! But the writing is on the walls, and in the absence of dictates from the source, speculation rules. If the internet kill switch was activated tomorrow there would be some really sad faces come the day after tomorrow when one is hit with the reality of the utter uselessness of that which is now being considered. Yes, there is magic in batteries, but that magic is extended to it from the system which supplies it with the impulses, that impulse system facilities the magic.....right?


Regards

[Lman]

The only time I have heard John Bedini saying he could or might use Neodimium magnets is in DVD 25 where the trigger winding is independent coil. And than he would be adjusting the space between the magnets and the trigger coil.
The only machine John showed us using Neodimium magnets was the Zero Force Motor. But that is a different machine.
NEVER Neos in the monopole.

Tom C, I think your post #74 should be in red and be put as a sticky somewhere. I have the strange feeling that we will see that question about the magnets again

Regards
Lman

[Tom C]

Erfinder,

please start a new thread, and then go thru your last post and show step by step how you have modified the circuit and changed things to produce each effect you have stated and gotten to where you are at....

Tom C

[Tom C]

Erfinder
you and I have not seen eye to eye on a few things, and that is alright. I am speaking about a specific machine and it's function and what the magnets are for. the fact that you can run the monopole circuit in solid state (no magnets just forced oscillation) is proof that is not designed as a GENERATOR if you load it down the way it is built, it slows down then stops. a generator consists of a prime mover of some kind and then windings and a stator that generates electricity to power loads. the generator action of the core and trigger is al it is there for. you need to be careful here, telling people its a generator, and saying there is a generator action are 2 different things.

if you want the wheel to power loads by means of rotational torque off the SG then go ahead use neo magnets, change the coil configuration, change the power source and add your pulleys and whizbangs. the window motor would do you a lot better as a prime mover to spin a muller gen type arrangement. as a matter of fact build a muller dynamo like romero uk did and off to the races you go. there are thousands of replications and different ways to work once you understand the basic machine, including yours, which no one can replicate because they do not have your understanding of your circuit and its topology and which you refuse to share. so please tell us EXACTLY how you do it share with everyone please, how you use neo's in your circuit and how you stack them, your coil topology and wiring, and how you and when and where to switch.

the peanut gallery is waiting for YOU to shar! you my friend are not the peanut gallery you are one who has claimed to have found "IT" so rather than complain about it not being shared, open up your secrets to the peanut gallery and let them judge the merits of your discovery.

just to be clear you said:

"I do accept the arguments against the use of Neos in designs that are presented by the inventor" what the hell else am I talking about? don't use neo's in the vanilla SG. that is what was being asked about not anything else.

so show us how you do it, the world will be forever grateful,,,

Tom C

[erfinder]

I asked JB, and in his words, "I have told them a million times, no neo's, not gonna tell them again" it is all over the internet in his writings and on multiple dvd titles. so I will tell you the reason. the fields are too large, and they are too strong. the ceramic has the right gauss and the field shape is perfect for what we want. it is just a trigger. every machine JB has has ceramics on it, except the giant ferris wheel which has neo mags on it but they are on the back of the ceramics to change the shape of the field for that particular machine, but that is the only one.

1- if the field is too large, you don't get a good south between magnets, you have to put the magnets too far apart, and it takes more energy to spin the wheel.
2- if the field is too strong it oversaturates the core.
3- this makes the machine hard to tune and puts to much current to the base of each transistor.
4- because it is not a generator.

Tom C

There are exceptions to this as I am sure you are well aware, however, as this is specifically about the SG, and doing as one is instructed, the exceptions are irrelevant. The part about the device not being a generator I cannot accept, and no one who has worked with this machine and similar embodiments should blindly accept this "idea" that the device isn't a generator when the facts indicate that it is. The device has generator written all over it. Aren't you taking advantage of generator action to turn on the transistor.....isn't the induced in both the trigger and the power winding at the same level when when the transistor is activated? What's the harm in considering the device from the perspective of the induced? If the supply battery is removed, aren't we left with an experiment in coil shorting, switching at the peak of the induced wave? I am not asking questions, I have answered these questions for myself, and only bring them up as I don't feel we are justified in saying that Neos cant be used, or that this isnt a generator, when in fact, it is possible to use Neo magnets, and the device is fundamentally a generator, not a very good one, but a generator nonetheless. I do accept the arguments against the use of Neos in designs that are presented by the inventor, however, as you know, here too are exceptions. If the device isn't a generator, then we require a detailed description of what it is because according to common sense, its a device capitalizing on the generator aspects of the machine. As far as I am concerned, and this is my opinion, we are dealing with a DC biased, pulsed AC generator. Mag Amp sums it up. It doesn't make sense to me that things are suggested, but when it comes right down to it the subject is avoided. Real talk about real principles are outright avoided, and if they aren't avoided, we are instructed not to use our common sense.

No progress is going to be made till we of the peanut gallery decide that what we are being presented isn't enough. Radiant......this term has no meaning whatsoever till you realize its connection with that which we call reactive power.

All this stuff we are being given I see it differently. We are taught about cap dumps not because we need to dump a cap into the battery. Remember, we charged a cap with the collapsing field, after realizing that the discharge of the coil wasn't what the battery wanted....the gears were switched and a cap was charged instead of the battery, this cap was then discharged across the the battery. What if....the lesson with the cap dump is that we should get the coil to behave as if it were the cap, hitting the battery with a current pulse instead of the voltage pulse we are all familiar with? Again, not a question........see coils as caps, comprehend that the only thing stopping a coil from instantly processing current is the mechanism of self induction. If you can regulate self induction, you govern the speed at which current can change in your coil. Now....self induction has a relation to capacity, the two form a tank...doesn't take a degree in rocket science to know that if this circuit is tuned, preferably self tuning, RPM independent, or no fixed frequency, is resonant, and the Q is high, there can and more than likely will be a rather large circulating current just waiting for you to route out via the all too familiar method. When you control the impedance offered to the flow of current within a coil, you are controlling more than you are aware of.

What I have found we want is to establish those conditions found at the zero crossing, were the current applied to the circuit is not opposed by the induced. If you could establish those conditions found at the zero crossing all the time........I think you get the picture, and if not....try harder.

IF.....you can control the impedance of a coil when current is moving through it, that coil can behave like a cap, transitions in current happening more or less instantly. This can result in voltage spikes which will destroy the entire apparatus, lucky for us, if its done in the proper manner no spikes ever manifest! Not only this, but if they do manifest, the only negative is you loose the switch, spikes being so great and so fast that they punch the gate of the switch (Aviso, Magnacoaster).

When my hero said, that he found the relation between self induction and capacity, he had found something of profound significance. A relation that once mastered and implemented, enabled him to move current in his system as if the system had no self-induction. We have been looking only at the induced current, and not the current in the oscillator. The current in the oscillator is already moving with zero impedance between L and C, that mechanism is what I believe he spread to other parts of the circuit, eventually being able to extract energy out of the oscillator. Now after considering that, look at your battery again, and tell me that the battery is not being charged with current.....if you still don't see current, under the proper conditions, insane current charging that battery, heaven help you.

Out of the many things that "increasing the reactive cross section" could mean, this is hands down, the only one worth my attention. They aren't lying, they just aren't keeping it real....this is a good thing, it makes us good researchers.

Please forgive my abrupt interruption of the flow of the thread.....habit.....

Regards

[Tom C]

I asked JB, and in his words, "I have told them a million times, no neo's, not gonna tell them again" it is all over the internet in his writings and on multiple dvd titles. so I will tell you the reason. the fields are too large, and they are too strong. the ceramic has the right gauss and the field shape is perfect for what we want. it is just a trigger. every machine JB has has ceramics on it, except the giant ferris wheel which has neo mags on it but they are on the back of the ceramics to change the shape of the field for that particular machine, but that is the only one.

1- if the field is too large, you don't get a good south between magnets, you have to put the magnets too far apart, and it takes more energy to spin the wheel.
2- if the field is too strong it oversaturates the core.
3- this makes the machine hard to tune and puts to much current to the base of each transistor.
4- because it is not a generator.

Tom C

[wrtner]

At the beginning of this thread, Tom C said JB would be chiming in with the reason why we should not use neos. Did he do so? If so, what page?

[powerdraw]

don't know what it's worth but my wheel is turning fine with the slightly smaller (1/8 inch smaller in length width and thickness) I got R45 welding rods through amazon. wire from rautken.

[BobZilla]

They same guy will wind up coming here in a few weeks asking why his system runs like crap,, but he did everything exactly as instructed ;-)

Every few months it seems someone comes in and dismantles all the correct instruction with some post where they are proud to have out smarted everyone with their Neo's.. I have gotten to the point where I don't even bother trying to correct anyone anymore. After all if they can get a wheel to spin than they are certified experts aren't they

[Tom C]

what an idiot!!

Tom C

[D Rhodes]

Wanna read something funny but infuriating? I sell a few ferrite magnets through my site and also ebay. They are 2" x 1" x 0.5 ..well someone bought 24 last night and then sent this email today.
"Can you please cancel my order? These are NOT the magnets I need to make a Bedini generator! You shouldn't be able to get away with saying that sort of crap, to build this generator you need neodymium magnets!!!
Please cancel & refund my order ASAP.
Cheers!"
So I refunded the money. Oh well...I have sold over 500 magnets to happy customers , but you just cannot convince some people what is best. I suspect he has been influenced by Rick F. Let each go their own way.

[Tom C]

yea the magnets are not on the website but I have a box of 1000 of them on my workbench for the upcoming 1 coil and 3 coil kits...... thats why I said send me an email...... send the neo's back get the ferrites.

if you want a small wheel get a 12 inch wheel from skyway, they work well and are smaller.
Tom C

[Volty]

Ward, we have magnets at teslagenx, send us an email we will get them to you, sales@teslagenx.com. we use a square ferrites because 1. Jb said they are the best for the bike wheel. 2. they have a sharp leading and trailing edge, which makes switching faster. 3 they are much less expensive than other types of magnets. we don't use neos because the fields are too large. John has already tried many combinations and he has had the best success with the ceramics on the bike wheel. Tom C

Tom,

I see recommended finished 8+1 wire coils pre-wound, or welding rod and spools for cobblers, but no magnets and no search function at Battery Chargers, Bedini SG Kits, PCBs, Books & Videos

I was so anxious last night I bought "10 Pcs Strong Neo Neodymium Block Countersunk Ring Magnets 20x10x4mm Hole 4mm" and "5pcs Rectangle Strong Neodymium Block Magnets 50x10x5mm N35 Grade Rare Earth Neo". I can shelf these for a while if you point me to the
" Ferrite C8 in the monopole energiser. 3/8" by 1" by 1 7/8" A.K.A.
(17/8) inch = 54 mm
(3/8) inch = 9.5 mm
1 inch = 25.4 mm
Please link it if you can. * * * Also, save me from folly please; Bike wheel may be quiet, but too darn big. Scooter wheel will have close magnets. I read somewhere here magnets spaced 4 or 5 widths apart... and now, "No Neo's".
Even the 10mm wide magnets, i was thinking of on a ~5" diameter whee,l could only hold 4 magnets.
-Ward

[Tom C]

I am going to chime in here and second what Branch has said about charging, also charge time depends upon the size of the battery, the number of circuits you are running and the condition of said battery. seniority is based upon number of posts and the time you have been on the forum. Tom C

[Tom C]

Ward, we have magnets at teslagenx, send us an email we will get them to you, sales@teslagenx.com. we use a square ferrites because 1. Jb said they are the best for the bike wheel. 2. they have a sharp leading and trailing edge, which makes switching faster. 3 they are much less expensive than other types of magnets. we don't use neos because the fields are too large. John has already tried many combinations and he has had the best success with the ceramics on the bike wheel. Tom C