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**Forrest** · 09-04-2012, 08:57 AM

Hi all, One big thing I forgot to mention. The wire size and buss size is something not to be taken lightly. You cannot make them too big but you will loose if they are too small due to heat. On the 7 lead coil I built I have #12 solid copper wire for the buss where everything is soldered to. Now this coil only outputs 3 amp when running according to the meter.....however!......this buss heats up to around 105 degrees to where you really know it is worm. Now we all know this wire is good for 20 amp and it is heating up at 3 amp. So this negative energy is way more powerful than we can imagine. We just cannot measure it well. Start thinking bigger!

Bud

**Jet-A** · 09-04-2012, 12:44 PM

Great write up Bud!!

I'm not at the multi-filer coil yet, this gives me great encouragement that it can be done! Can't wait to hear about the COP on this build.

Learn something new everyday - I thought the #19 trigger wire gets twisted with the #18 wires - now I know.

Keep up the good work.

Alex

**streamingindie** · 09-05-2012, 01:22 AM

Well stated

Originally posted by Jet-A View Post

Great write up Bud!!

I'm not at the multi-filer coil yet, this gives me great encouragement that it can be done! Can't wait to hear about the COP on this build.

Learn something new everyday - I thought the #19 trigger wire gets twisted with the #18 wires - now I know.

Keep up the good work.

Alex

I have been following other threads and forums and never commented.
This thread taught me some things and you were right to call it what you did.
Thanks Bud.
And a thanks is never enough for JB. Duly noted...
Building my first now.

**MrRonsen** · 09-05-2012, 04:13 AM

Also one of the best working educations is from the 50+ runs I did to prove to myself that COP>1 is achievable using that tiny SSG coil we all start with.

umpf, 50+ runs.. can i hope that i dont have to run the same 50+ ?
working on the vanilla SG with 7Ah batteries.. (reaching 14.5V already, but in a terrible long time)

PS:
i am dreaming of a new project documentation file, where many FAQs are added and sorted, do that and dont do this,
our aim should be to use it for ourself, for our neighbours, for our village and so on.. and honor JB,
but when everyone has to redevelope the bicycle.. hmm, the world will go other ways?
i am famous for my patience ;o), over a year on track (3PM-kit "fairy tail").. now with vanilla SG

**Forrest** · 09-05-2012, 12:26 PM

MrRonsen, The 50+ I am referring to is what I had to do to appease the powers to be at that time. This was when we were all imprisoned to do 20 runs per spec to advance to the next level. It irritated me to do this but in the end this is where I learned a ton about what happened and why. 30 of these runs were mistakes of my own doing. So the final 20 or so runs I thought that was required was where all of the learning came from. One of the biggest educations learned was that I was sent a coil that was of the wrong construction and I never knew it......not until I decided to build another unit and coil to JB's spec and then it was known to me that what I was sent in the kit was wrong. Winding my own coils and doing my own work is where the vast amount of education came from. It also gave me the push to build what I just showed above.

I guess at the end of the day......do your own work and then you are at the mercy of your own mistakes. Making the coil with 850 turns of #26 and #30 will do the work to charge a 5AH lead acid battery just barely. But it is enough to learn the basics and see how the battery responds to negative energy. The key is not in the rate of charge but in the rate of discharge time inside the battery once it is negatively charged. You cannot see this until you do the 20 runs because it requires about 12-15 of these runs to get the battery conditioned to neg energy then you will see the magic happen on paper.

If you do not feel comfortable with this charging rate do what Tom suggests....build the coil with 130' of #18 and #19......guaranteed you will get charging then!

Bud

**John_Koorn** · 09-05-2012, 02:16 PM

Bud,

I'm glad that you appreciated that doing the proper load testing taught you a lot on how the machine works and how the batteries respond. I think I was one of the "powers to be" that made you do the extra runs.

The reason why this was enforced was to make people actually do some load testing so they could see the results for themselves. On paper, like you said.

Now that we have this new forum people can do whatever they want, but load testing should still be part of the experiments. I'd like to continue to see people's load testing data and if they want it critiqued I'm happy to do that. We picked up a lot of things people were doing wrong by looking at their load testing data.

We want to see people succeed with this.

John K.

P.S I still do load testing everyday with my machines. I'm currently load testing the hybrid gel-acid batteries as well as the 10 coiler. I'm still learning new things everyday as well.

**Forrest** · 09-05-2012, 06:48 PM

Hi John,

I have to admit that doing the extra runs was frustrating but it was worth the effort looking back. I know for sure that I too will be keeping track of the cycles times by paper from now on. For all you others who are reading this take heed......this is something you all need to experience to truly understand what the neg energy does to a battery. It does not matter how large or small your machine is......the neg energy effect is all the same regardless if you succeed in achieving a COP>1 on the runs. The COP part can come into play later by building differnt coils and machines.

All of you that have watched me struggle with the same thing do not realize how many times I have built - tore down - rebuilt - and gone over and over the basics just to master what I have achieved so far. The only way you will accomplish what I have done is to get started and start doing.

I am just getting started and I am willing to help any of you along the way but you have to do the work.

Bud

**Forrest** · 09-19-2012, 05:27 AM

Hi all, 15 days have passed since I started charging those L16 batteries. They are around 370 AH each and there are 8 batteries in all. As you know I am feeding the multiple coil SSg setup with a 20 volt 6.5 amp power supply. I have noticed that the ssg acts much differently being fed from a power supply than from a battery. Being on the power supply it seems as if it is running from a deficit rather that having more than it needs like from a battery bank. From what I have surmised the three coil setup I have shows the output at 5.6 amps......however I am betting that the real output is somewhere near 37 amp. This is my take on what the amp reading shows on the 7 coil buss bar @ 3 amp output and the heat that is warming the bar from realistic current going thru the buss. A very good explanation of this phenomenon is in the new dvd " Magnetic energy secrets " by Paul Babcock.

When I first started charging on these batteries I did not know they were as bad as they seemed. When I got them home I did a hydrometer test and could not read the bulb as the acid was almost pitch black from extreme sulphation. The batteries started at 6.0-6.2 volts and who knows how long they had been in that condition. On the 1st of sept I started started charging them and the machine has been running 24/7 ever since going from battery to battery. I did a check this morning and 7 of the 8 batteries have taken a charge to 7.25 minimum voltage. I am working on the last one now. As I charged these batteries there have been times when they refuse to take a charge over a certain voltage and go backwards. This is when I switched to another battery to give the previos one a break. After several days coming back to one which refused charge and then trying again to find that it did charge to higher voltage than previous. I am seeing that the batteries do need a break from charging. Also noticed now that I have a full charge in them that the acid is very clear again. Even though I have a full charge in them at 7.25 volts or more that the specific gravity is stil hanging around 12.4 - 12.6.......short of being hot like a new battery @ 12.75 - 12.8. As I cycle these I will keep track of each one on the 20 run sheet just like doing the experiment to follow their progress of getting better or staying the same.

As I have been charging I have been working on a super pole setup like Johnk's. I took the other SSg wheel I have and mounted 14- 2"x3" ferrite magnet pairs north to north and connected them to the wheel by the 2" face. I am building 3 coils that will be arranged ....one off the end of the magnet and two that sit on either side of the magnets. All three magnets wil be 90 degrees to each other and on the same plain. I do not know if there will be any interference from one another when running. We will soon see. I will post some pictures when I get a chance. As of now I have the magnets all mounted and one coil wound. Have the electrinics to build and all to mount up. Waiting for more wire to show up. Can't believe how much wire I have chewed up in the last few months!

Like my dad used to say when playing poker......no one ever gets into the game by checking!

Bud

**Prinsloo** · 09-19-2012, 07:34 AM

Hi Forrest

Tried to look at your picture that you posted in post #1 but could not, are they still accessible? please check.

Thanks

T

PS: Thanks did manage to get a look at your photos eventually.

You need to get a scope and look at each coils spike output, on my system with a big coil and a small coil running together the spike defaulted to the lower coil spike voltage. Iaw (for example) if the big coil gives you a 200v spike and the smaller coil a 100v spike the scope will measure 100v and not the 200v, it defaults to the lower voltage, question is what is the battery seeing? 100v or 200v spike ?

Unless your run each coil on its own trigger so that they fire separately from each other, my 2c worth,

I still have a lot of question to ask this forum on my setup. Still trying to read all the posts and getting to grips with all the information before asking unnecessary questions, I am just so glad that I stumbled on to it

**Prinsloo** · 09-19-2012, 07:40 AM

@ All

Is there a specific core size diameter preference for the big multi coil machines ?

T

**Forrest** · 09-20-2012, 04:38 AM

Hi Prinsloo, Yes the pictures still work.....they are on photobucket......maybe photobucket could have been down at that time. As for the coils on this three coil setup .....each coil has it's own trigger. They do work all independantly. This whole thing was a big experiment just to see what wold happen. As it turns out the whole rig works great and is charging these monster batteries.

Bud

**Prinsloo** · 09-21-2012, 12:21 AM

Thanks Forrest

Now it's time to ad the other 7 coils and really use those batteries going,

Theunis

**Tom C** · 09-21-2012, 07:36 AM

so I have read thru this thread, and a 3 coil SG should not pull that many amps. if anything is getting warm you are wasting energy. if your coils are warm you are wasting energy they are passing current too long. get that machine running cold. you need 4 gauge to the charging batteries, and a capacitor in parallel from the power supply. you are way under unity right now, and running from batteries on the primary would tell you that.

the batteries will desulphate better with pure could electricity. we dont want amps coming from the secondary only hi voltage pulse.

Tom C

**Tom C** · 09-21-2012, 07:37 AM

Originally posted by Prinsloo View Post

@ All

Is there a specific core size diameter preference for the big multi coil machines ?

T

same spools 3/4 inch core pittsfield spool.
Pittsfield Plastics Engineering, Inc.

Tom C

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Pictures worth a thousand words.....quad coil build and setup to charge L-16 batterys

Pictures worth a thousand words.....quad coil build and setup to charge L-16 batterys

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