Why not shown how to charge one battery with the other at the offical Bedini forum?

[Kamen]

Hi Tom,

Can you please share a little more about that branch circuit. If using Radiant mode and only two branches - do you split half the coil strands and their corresponding Collector diodes to charge one battery and the other half of the strands charging another battery? And if doing a Cap Discharge do you then use two separate Comparators discharging to two separate batteries?

I always wondered how branch circuits differ from simply using multiple Charge batteries in parallel. This is on my list try try out.

Thanks,
Kamen

[forelle]

Hey Dave,

Thanks for your expert interest in the question posted by Forelle - in my opinion, he is basically frustrated in not being able to live up to the standard of 1:1 COP with his Bedini build as is touted by the principals of this forum. The forum's statement is somewhat unclear in that the "SSG will do one to one" on the primary battery to charge battery exchange of energy (meaning a fully charged exchange) never alluding to the Mode that will accomplish this. The frustration out there is the fact the stock build ( 7 and 8 transistor) in Mode 1 (shall we call it Radiant mode?) yields about a 0.5 COP for the Primary to Charge exchange, give or take, for many of the experimenters, being of course, "unskilled in the art" which may be part of the problem.

Anyway, the mantra for the builds has been max speed, vary the gap, vary the resistance yada,yada based on years of experience to gain the desired result, all very well documented on the forum. I do not dispute the point! Still their (new builders) net efforts have not produced enlightenment in Germany, Austria or other close and distant climes. Some of the problems and frustrations, perhaps self inflicted, are, no doubt, due to the learning process.

So Dave, getting to the point - yes, the current Snowman 8 transistor build has gone through many hours of charge and discharge. The Primary output and Charge input amperage have been measured with a good quality clamp DC meter using new system batteries. The C20 discharging is done with a 6 watt 12v auto bulb . In all the testing to date, there has been very good agreement between these amperage values and the actual battery discharge capacities. Being a Luddite, I normally opt for the simplified methodology and leave the more technical aspects for the more stringent focus testing.

For example, a 230cca 12 volt battery used as a Primary output source for an identical Charge battery (both conditioned of course) on a 8 transistor build tuned to max speed etc will require about 1.75 amps output (give or take) and input about 0.9 amps to the charge battery yielding an approximate Input/Output ratio of 0.5.

So in essence, in this instance, it takes nearly 2 Primary charges of a 9.5 amp hr batteries (tested) to bring a 9.2 amp hr Charge battery (tested) to 15.3v from 12.2v and then subsequently discharged down to 12.2v at C20. The Charge battery COP will consistently reflect a 1:1 ratio, while Charge/Primary COP (~0.5) here has been very reflective of the I/O amp ratio. Of course the wild card here is the elusive Radiant.

This is repeatable and has been many times! Of course there are those anomalies that push you to think outside of the box...

So the critical point here, is a 1:1 exchange between Primary and Charge battery doable in a 21 magnet build Mode 1 for a 7 and 8 transistor standard build tuned with a nominal 26" wheel? That I believe is the pivotal question that is the frustration point for many builders beyond normal points of inexperience. Can an example of this be shown to uplift the many builders and benign lurkers? There is a huge following here...

As one of the respected elders we rely on your wisdom and knowledge. Your attention is appreciated and thoroughly apologize for putting you on the spot. If there are reticent builders out there that are over this hump - speak up and support the effort!

Still immensely enjoying this adventure,
Yaro

Hi
you are right,basicaly im frustrated(i would say ofcourse because i am rebuilding a maschine and not inventing) that i am after 11/2 year and 3 different wheels and reading both SG books and the DVD33 and all whats written about this maschine i didnt have the slightest improvement in the COP.When i begann i started with a 6 coil maschine,i build it hooked it up and it was giving me a COP of 0.5 right away,that was 2 Years ago.Then i build a SG because i didnt came above 0.5.
Till now nothing has changed.
I have all like its suggested exept the coil is 7xAWG19 and 1xAWG 22.Till now I have run it most time with a powersupply because i didnt want to charge the battery with a standard charger so i ordered 2A12.
My suggestion to all newcomers is to build it exactly like it should be.If you reached 1-1 you can make modifications,not before.

[Tom C]

K,
yes your example is correct.
a branch circuit style SG allows you to take the collector diode output and instead of adding it to the charge rail bus, you run an individual "charge battery positive wire" to a single battery. you can take those batteries and give them a common negative to primary positive, or run the gen mode mods, or neg neg or any other way. the advantage of this is that batteries in parallel swap voltages to try and balance each other, so if you have one battery at 12.0 and 1 at 12.2 the higher batt will drain to the lower because of the pulse, as opposed to a straight DC charge where where as each battery isolated by a branch will charge off that one collector diode. so you can pair diodes or do 3 or 4 collector outputs however you want. you can do it straight vanilla or a cap dump off each collector.

Tom C

[John_Koorn]

Hi
you are right,basicaly im frustrated(i would say ofcourse because i am rebuilding a maschine and not inventing) that i am after 11/2 year and 3 different wheels and reading both SG books and the DVD33 and all whats written about this maschine i didnt have the slightest improvement in the COP.When i begann i started with a 6 coil maschine,i build it hooked it up and it was giving me a COP of 0.5 right away,that was 2 Years ago.Then i build a SG because i didnt came above 0.5.
Till now nothing has changed.
I have all like its suggested exept the coil is 7xAWG19 and 1xAWG 22.Till now I have run it most time with a powersupply because i didnt want to charge the battery with a standard charger so i ordered 2A12.
My suggestion to all newcomers is to build it exactly like it should be.If you reached 1-1 you can make modifications,not before.

Hi forelle, on a slightly different topic. I watched an interview with David Gilmour on Youtube today. I'm a big fan of his, he unfortunately, has never heard of me. He said during the interview that when he gets frustrated or sick of what he's doing, he takes a break to "recharge the batteries". He finds that when he does this and becomes relaxed he becomes inspired again.
The point being is that occasionally you need to take a break and come back with a fresh mind and fresh ideas. So take a break and do something you enjoy. I like to listen and play music or spend some time with the family.
It took me over 2 years of tinkering every day to build a machine that would charge the secondary battery before the primary ran down. I got frustrated too, it's part of learning but it's even more rewarding when you achieve your goal.
I've built about 17 different versions of the 4 battery Tesla Switch. I haven't built one yet that keeps the batteries charged while running a load. Have I failed? No. I've just learned what doesn't work and are getting closer to my goal. I've taken a break until I come up with more ideas. It's no big deal, I'll get there one day.
So take your time and take the time to learn the art, for it is an art - just like playing a musical instrument, it takes time to get really good at it.

John K.

[John_Koorn]

Kamen,

That is a good list... you can add
all of those modes with a branch modification splitting the output to more than one cap dump... branch mode in gen mode is also very interesting.

Tom C

Then once you've built all of those you can convert them to solid state.

John K.

[Tom C]

took me even longer..... half the battle was learning a bit of electronics then batteries, then tesla... if you dont understand tesla you wont ever get this stuff! leedskalnin http://www.code144.com/ and http://www.leedskalnin.com/Leedskaln...ionHolder.html will help a lot too.

tom C

[forelle]

You are right,i should take a break.
Thanks

[Faraday88]

Tom Said it! This is an excellent examples to the proof that Science does not stick around with one 'Langauge' of its Interpreation,and so does it reveal it self in a vivid of people trying to understand its beauty.
Rgds,
Faraday88.

[hobbyrobotik]

Hi Gary,

thanks a lot for posting this results. It is hard to believe my eyes when I look at.
You give a good example of "how it should be"- values not only to me.

GRAET WORK !!!

[Tom C]

@Dave,

you make a good point... batteries with known amp hours is probably the first step in true testing. you can easily fool yourself with a battery that is supposed to be a 10 AH one but only has 3 or 5 AH of capacity.

Tom C

[romeo-kilo]

@All,
I just wanted to say thank you for the initial question and the answers in this thread. As it was described by many others, all I get is a maximum CoP of 0.6
So with all my tries with different coil gaps, using different sweet spots, using different batteries, tuning the wheel to "endless" free runtime - the whole gain was .1 (coming from a CoP of 0.48 with the first run of my machine).
For me it is a very important thought, that I'm not the only one being totally frustrated.

Ralf

[Dave Wing]

It took me over 2 years of tinkering every day to build a machine that would charge the secondary battery before the primary ran down.

John K.

Hi John,

Just for clarity are you saying you have done the actual one primary to one secondary battery, with the SG (see picture below) in the second mode, which is with the secondary battery across the power coil/ trigger only and no circuit changes, nothing extra... like generator coils on the wheel, standard wire length, or other tricks of the trade?

Thank you,

Dave Wing

[Dave Wing]

Yaro, Ralf and Gary,

Thank you for your replies...

Dave Wing

[John_Koorn]

Hi Dave,

Yes, that is what I'm saying - exactly as the picture posted. Built to spec with good flooded lead-acid batteries. C20 rate on primary. C20 rate of discharge on secondary.

COP=1.1 + 23 percent mechanical

John K.

P.S. Teaser alert! I'm working on a testing method where anyone can easily test if they have a COP>1. More to be revealed soon

[min2oly]

Hi Romero,
yes, frustration - welcome to the party. So the question i would ask myself is how do we handle that frustration... Are we really frustrated or stumped because there is something we do not understand.... and do we allow that frustration to fester, do we take it out on others, or can we use it as motivation to increase our determination.

Romero looks like he has been at it for just over 2 months if I take him at his word from his first post on this forum. That's pretty awesome (sincerely) to come to a new off the books technology and pour your serious time and life into it, this is no small undertaking.

I want to share one of the builds that helped me understand and provided the best experiments possible for me to learn how to balance this marvelous machine.
I first saw John Bedini share it in DVD #2
go here
KR,
Patrick

@All,
I just wanted to say thank you for the initial question and the answers in this thread. As it was described by many others, all I get is a maximum CoP of 0.6
So with all my tries with different coil gaps, using different sweet spots, using different batteries, tuning the wheel to "endless" free runtime - the whole gain was .1 (coming from a CoP of 0.48 with the first run of my machine).
For me it is a very important thought, that I'm not the only one being totally frustrated.

Ralf