SSG Where the rubber hits the road

[John_Koorn]

Hi John,
Thanks! this beats a complete run down/discharge, now Patrick can get some sleep

What are your thoughts about leaving the amp meter inline for the whole hour? I ask because my draw increases when I shunt the meter. And/or what are your thoughts about using a clamp meter to mark the draw. I don't have one, just some of the ideas crawling around my head...

Thanks again,
Patrick A.

Hey Patrick,

I actually use a clamp meter more these days. If you're going to use an analog amp meter in line, just use it for the first run. The draw shouldn't increase too much if you shunt the amp meter, if it does either your meter has a large resistance in it or it's faulty.

I've used this method a few times. On my superpole bike wheel SG I was getting system COPs of 1.03 plus the mechanical. i.e. 60 minute discharge and 58 minutes to recharge.

Note: use 15.3v for lead-acid and 14.8v for gel-cells.

John K.

[Allen R.]

Hi Patrick , everyone. First let me say sorry for the broken sentence post. These days I need some help getting to sleep. I was in a race to beat the sleep meds and I lost. Secondly if my post is very long my phone gives me fits trying to edit. The post is terrible. The dump was a quick and dirty mech. contact. The coil was a standard spool with very fine wire about 2100 turns with a core. I was just holding it so I could easily change the timing in relation to the magnet pass. Used a two magnet 16 inch wheel so things would be slow on purpose. When the coil was in the right place the dump would push the wheel faster and still help thd run time. The meters showed a large increase in voltage. Everyone will get a kick out of my extreme southern draw and sloppy building. I had a wad of clip leads on it too.

When I have an amp meter on the input of my wheels it changes the tuning. I wished it didnt , I like to see what is happening.

I need to watch your latest vid now.

Thanks.
al

[min2oly]

Hi Al,
you gave me a good laugh - I hope you're ok. Your meds did get the best of you... you left out the link LOL :-)
I'm the last person in the world to judge anyone for slapping things together when they get an idea in their head. Most times I have to do it real quick before the idea is lost...
I look forward to your awakening :-)
Kind Regards,
Patrick

Or maybe I'm reading it wrong and you're just giving us another teaser

Hi Patrick , everyone. First let me say sorry for the broken sentence post. These days I need some help getting to sleep. I was in a race to beat the sleep meds and I lost. Secondly if my post is very long my phone gives me fits trying to edit. The post is terrible. The dump was a quick and dirty mech. contact. The coil was a standard spool with very fine wire about 2100 turns with a core. I was just holding it so I could easily change the timing in relation to the magnet pass. Used a two magnet 16 inch wheel so things would be slow on purpose. When the coil was in the right place the dump would push the wheel faster and still help thd run time. The meters showed a large increase in voltage. Everyone will get a kick out of my extreme southern draw and sloppy building. I had a wad of clip leads on it too.

When I have an amp meter on the input of my wheels it changes the tuning. I wished it didnt , I like to see what is happening.

I need to watch your latest vid now.

Thanks.
al

[min2oly]

Got excited about the distraction and forgot to answer this part.

Did I calculate 71ma amp draw on the input? Is that normally where you run your input at? Just curious as I run mine at 120 and 220~ma there are two very prominant spots there on my wheel. Sounds lime I get the new wheel whipped up. My wheel is somewhere between junkpile and not nearly close enoufh to the smooth one you show later. This new one must be lest redneck engineer and more scotty engineer. Im getting excited to see the big eight running!

Thanks
al

you meant 71mA/winding I think...
that's just where the wheel wanted to run with the coil so close. Now that I have the coil closer to where it wants to be, I'm drawing in the neighborhood of 850-900mA.
I'm still not finished tuning.
Kind Regards,
Patrick

[Allen R.]

Hi Patrick. Sorry about that. I'm not the best communicator in the world. I'm from the south I know what I mean Here is the link.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oO-BE4RWG8 I had posted this a long time ago on the Energetic forum and of all the folks talking only one guy thought it was interesting. No one even commented. The other place I posted it received no comments at all except a seething hatred for John B. and anything he did. Needless to say I don't bother with those folks anymore. Just keep reviving batteries while they say none of it works. If it is stupid you are welcome to say so I really want to build something proper and try again. This works better when I am not trying to get that last post in before falling asleep. A real keyboard helps as well.



Bobzilla -- Very cool work. The dancing pulses is an interesting concept. Thanks for sharing.

Have a great evening everyone.

al

[min2oly]

Al - me ROFL your edit reason :-)

hey I like the simplicity of this. it's like thousands of years ago when some guy said "hey lets put a pole through a couple of those wheels so we can drag stuff around." I'm making that up of course, but you get my drift...

Just to be sure I've got it down, The basic SSG is filling a cap 2 magnets per rev then dumping that cap to a battery using a pure mechanical dump (no mosfet or transistor etc) on the + leg of the cap through a coil w/ core timed so this coil can push one magnet per rev. The cap is filled to +/-30V per rev in normal (shunted) mode then dumped to charging battery. When you remove the shunt, the dump goes through the magamped coil and increases the revs and potential to the charging battery to about 80V +/-.

I have so many questions and will explore this on the bench here for sure. I would like to ask one... Do you notice the charging battery charging faster on a long run?

Thanks for sharing this!
Kind Regards,
Patrick A.

Hi Patrick. Sorry about that. I'm not the best communicator in the world. I'm from the south I know what I mean Here is the link.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oO-BE4RWG8 I had posted this a long time ago on the Energetic forum and of all the folks talking only one guy thought it was interesting. No one even commented. The other place I posted it received no comments at all except a seething hatred for John B. and anything he did. Needless to say I don't bother with those folks anymore. Just keep reviving batteries while they say none of it works. If it is stupid you are welcome to say so I really want to build something proper and try again. This works better when I am not trying to get that last post in before falling asleep. A real keyboard helps as well.



Bobzilla -- Very cool work. The dancing pulses is an interesting concept. Thanks for sharing.

Have a great evening everyone.

al

[Allen R.]

Hi Patrick. That is me most of the time. Great , I have learned something already. Now I know what to call the coil situation. The ssg charges a cap then during off time dumps to the run battery. At 1:20 I incorrectly call a diode a bridge rectifier. No other transistors are being used even though you can clearly see a mjl tranny on the cap. I thought it was blown at the time but it isnt being used. The magnets on the wheel really were just to let me play with the switching and to make things nice and slow. It also messes things up with the south that forms between magnets. Only having two magnets isn't really a factor IMO. I was learning back then (still learning now too) and tried many different setups to understand the processes. The setup was just me trying different things to see what happens which usually lets out the magic smoke.

Your question was did I notice any charge battery increase? I was back popping the run battery with the ssg output. The run battery really didn't loose enough to notice when the other coil is in the dump circuit as far as I can remember BUT it is only two magnets per revolution so it wouldn't use very much anyway. I didn't make really long runs because of the very crude mechanical dump switch. The cap would get a really high voltage fast when my crappy mechanical dump would get out of adjustment. :0

There are many questions and thoughts about how to best put it to use. My skills are not that great and I just kinda put it away but I always think about the boost it made to the wheel and the potential gain that appears when the other coil is in the circuit. My hope was back then and still today that someone with proper skills would see what is happening and exploit it if it is useful.

Glad you liked the edit reason. I have to laugh at myself or I would cry!

My only regret with all of this is now I have distracted you from the "rubber hitting the road" and that is what I am really craving! Thanks for putting up with me. If I am in the way or fowling up your thread let me know. The last thing I want is to be rude or disruptive. That is why my post count is so low for the amount of time I have been a member.


Thanks,
al

[Allen R.]

Hi Patrick. I left out a very important detail. The battery in the video is an 18 volt nicad pack.

al

[min2oly]

Al, this is proof that sometimes I see what I want to see and not what is really there. I wanted to see the dump going to a charge battery so I missed that you were sending it back to the primary/run bat.
No Worries, I truly do not see these posts as any type of distraction what-so-ever. I find these ideas keep me motivated.

I'm still working on the wheel, finished getting matching magnets all around yesterday and completed two of John K's 1 hour run cycles to see where I'm at. I'm no where near where I need to be. I'm at about 1 : .80 I'm using 220ohms on the base resistors and am wondering if I should take those up a bit... I might break down and pick up the garden battery this week. I'll have to check on the Ah rating on those. I'm drawing an amp from the primary side which means I should have to draw an amp on the charging during discharge, or maybe I could just do half an amp for twice the duration...

Here's a "quick" LED vid:

I'll be spending the rest of the week tuning and cleaning this up. during my after hours. I thought John K's new measuring method was going to allow me to sleep. I'm just spending the extra time working on other parts!

I was only using 4 wires, my mje's, and about 50base ohms when I was getting 1:1 maybe I'll turn a few of the transistors off and see where I'm at... I'll have to hunker down, make sure I'm taking the measurements correctly as well - anyone have any recomendations on a DC clamp meter?
Kind Regards,
the good the bad and the ugly - Patrick A.

Hi Patrick. That is me most of the time. Great , I have learned something already. Now I know what to call the coil situation. The ssg charges a cap then during off time dumps to the run battery. At 1:20 I incorrectly call a diode a bridge rectifier. No other transistors are being used even though you can clearly see a mjl tranny on the cap. I thought it was blown at the time but it isnt being used. The magnets on the wheel really were just to let me play with the switching and to make things nice and slow. It also messes things up with the south that forms between magnets. Only having two magnets isn't really a factor IMO. I was learning back then (still learning now too) and tried many different setups to understand the processes. The setup was just me trying different things to see what happens which usually lets out the magic smoke.

Your question was did I notice any charge battery increase? I was back popping the run battery with the ssg output. The run battery really didn't loose enough to notice when the other coil is in the dump circuit as far as I can remember BUT it is only two magnets per revolution so it wouldn't use very much anyway. I didn't make really long runs because of the very crude mechanical dump switch. The cap would get a really high voltage fast when my crappy mechanical dump would get out of adjustment. :0

There are many questions and thoughts about how to best put it to use. My skills are not that great and I just kinda put it away but I always think about the boost it made to the wheel and the potential gain that appears when the other coil is in the circuit. My hope was back then and still today that someone with proper skills would see what is happening and exploit it if it is useful.

Glad you liked the edit reason. I have to laugh at myself or I would cry!

My only regret with all of this is now I have distracted you from the "rubber hitting the road" and that is what I am really craving! Thanks for putting up with me. If I am in the way or fowling up your thread let me know. The last thing I want is to be rude or disruptive. That is why my post count is so low for the amount of time I have been a member.


Thanks,
al

[guyzzemf]

what why multi spiks

quote

I truly do not see these posts as any type of distraction what-so-ever. I find these ideas keep me motivated.

ditto
ok Patrick [ALL] what is happening to cause it to have multi spikes .spike echo? trigger echo ? coil-battery echo?
battery to battery echo. is a echo at all. is it acting like a solid state but only real slow ? different thread but related what is resonating . and why what why its better one spike than many
guy

[BobZilla]

Nice video Patrick. I really like how you are bringing the basics back to one place for people who may not know some of the tricks. One piece of advice, if you get a blue and a red LED and hook them in opposite polarity you can catch the charge and the discharge across the coil. That is how I like to make my timing lights. I don't have a scope though so for you it is less relevant. Keep up the good work man!

Guy we had a little conversation about this in one of my threads. Not trying to divert away from Patricks thread here but at the bottom of page three I stated what I thought was going on and some others chimed in on the thread too. You might find it interesting. I also shot some boring video switching between 2 and one spike with a meter hooked up.

http://www.energyscienceforum.com/sh...?t=1258&page=3

[min2oly]

I'm interested to hear your thoughts on this Guy. I'm not much for theory on what is happening only the results I get.

I know John B ran his one coil 7 transistor bike wheel w/ 2 spikes on DVD 7, and he ran his 10 coiler w/ 1 spike in DVD 2. I've been running on 2 spikes today, currently on my second run using John K's 1hour method... first run was @ .90 (w/ no other changes from the runs that were giving me .80) we'll see where the next run goes...

Question is how do YOU get it to 2...

Not there yet on my vid line up, still doing runs and tuning, and clean up - and I have to work.
Kind Regards,
Patrick A.

quote

ditto
ok Patrick [ALL] what is happening to cause it to have multi spikes .spike echo? trigger echo ? coil-battery echo?
battery to battery echo. is a echo at all. is it acting like a solid state but only real slow ? different thread but related what is resonating . and why what why its better one spike than many
guy

[min2oly]

I've got another vid out there w/ a small rotor on using the 2 leds to explain that. I thought I might confuse myself and any others if I tried to talk about it now - LOL

Say nice thread I remember following it, it's good to go back and read. those are Tom's coil holders, yes? I think Guy is touching more on what is going on w/ the battery vs coil in relation to "echo" and number of spikes. I'm not sure if anyone touched on that. I do like your thorough rundown of 1 spike vs 2 spikes. did you ever get to 3? or did I miss it...
The big question is still, how do YOU get to 2...
gotta run...
Thanks,
Patrick A.

Nice video Patrick. I really like how you are bringing the basics back to one place for people who may not know some of the tricks. One piece of advice, if you get a blue and a red LED and hook them in opposite polarity you can catch the charge and the discharge across the coil. That is how I like to make my timing lights. I don't have a scope though so for you it is less relevant. Keep up the good work man!

Guy we had a little conversation about this in one of my threads. Not trying to divert away from Patricks thread here but at the bottom of page three I stated what I thought was going on and some others chimed in on the thread too. You might find it interesting. I also shot some boring video switching between 2 and one spike with a meter hooked up.

http://www.energyscienceforum.com/sh...?t=1258&page=3

[BobZilla]

Yup those are Toms coils and holders which I recommend to anyone reading. Most of my early builds were wound out in the yard with a drill and honestly I skipped the litz most of the time lol. I like all the stuff Tom is offering but to have such nice coils available at a very reasonable price I think is HUGE for our little community.

Generally speaking about spikes I have found that it all depends on the machine and the battery you are trying to charge. For that 2 coiler I can easily charge garden batteries all the way down on 4 spikes well I used to, I have reconfigured that machine with a 7 winding single coil) But anyway it really depends on your load as to what you can get away with. I can get some good charging even on my 100AH on 3 spikes BUT at the end it wont peak at 15.5, it will only take it to high 14's so if I want to bring it up I will loosen the pot and go into 1 spike and it shoots right up. I think that is more having to do with the smidgen of current that you need to carry the charge, one spike will give just a bit more.

I don't think there is any firm rule to say one spike is best , or two spikes is best, it all really depends on what your working with.

[guyzzemf]

Patrick ,Bob all
first i think this thread is going where pat wants it [i like ; im sure pat will rain us in if not

Anyone watching my new machine thread knows I have been playing around with 2 spike, one spike, three spike to see the differences. When we setup for one spike it seems to me that that is the true spike produced from the induction triggering mechanism. When we get more spikes I think it is the circuit going into self oscillation for a brief time , probably the power winding inducting across the trigger and re-opening the base.

i like the the thinking there .now if it is self oscillation for a brief time as it seems to be, it reacts to base changes as a solid state dose . now what happen to me and pat we got a transistor to self oscillate with no trigger just the e to b diode
so there was a trigger path ,so the question is what is oscillating in solid state [resonating ] .The coil for sure with what
the input? i dont think the its trigger winding always but i do think its the trigger here because the way it responds to base- trigger resistance .It also has to do with [imho] that the transistor not turning off all the way [in comes the n14001 e to b diode . i can think of at least 2-3 test i want to do need to pull out the butler;my vanilla ssg 1.test spikes per mag
pass with /with out n14001 e to b diode with at diff resistor values 2.open gap coil 3.4.open /close magnet spacing
the trigger may not be oscillating but it lets it happen and if that is true then there must be a min currant to full turn on
and get full gain and a clean off a clean note [if you will] if not the transistor run over it self never full on or off;multi spike
now i did some test with ss and got it to where it would not start self- R unless i put a magnet on the coil
for a sec. that fits s
so the coil and transistor are oscillating but many things change the frec. bat size base res. type of transistor coil/wire size
Bob you said some good things 1 don't change a thing in a run i think a lot of people got poor results because of playing with the pot .pots hunt burn up there only few base resistors to use any way 0 to 1.5 k usually 0 to 600
Pat i use a led to get to 1 pules
AL i loved the saying [let the magic smoke out ]been there done that. now ill go to sleep wake up and disagree with myself and or have may more question to ask my self/// i;ll dream of tank circuits .Tom
guy
edit Has anyone put a hall triggered transistor in self resonance and if so dose a hall trigger multi spike
i cant believe i dont know; dose a hall [trigger multi spike ] the answer is all telling
better sleep 4-b I question myself into a loop