SSG Where the rubber hits the road

[min2oly]

Patrick,
I installed your switch method on my machine and it works great! Anyone using reeds should know about this, you have really let a great one loose here my friend. Thank you.

Here is a very short video showing it on my machine. I am not running in the video but rather showing how the switch improved my timing.

https://1drv.ms/v/s!AmzmftzD-V0mhwFH2D62ltLtBgBj

Very cool :-)

[min2oly]

Could someone please draw out the schematic that would allow one to replace the trigger circuit on the original sg with patrick's dual reed switch idea.
Thank you in advance.

Hi Brian,
it can be as simple as this one I drew up here
if you start getting into multi-filer and multi coil and you still need a diagram, well.....
KR - Patrick

[Brian McNece]

Could someone please draw out the schematic that would allow one to replace the trigger circuit on the original sg with patrick's dual reed switch idea.
Thank you in advance.

[BobZilla]

Patrick,
I installed your switch method on my machine and it works great! Anyone using reeds should know about this, you have really let a great one loose here my friend. Thank you.

Here is a very short video showing it on my machine. I am not running in the video but rather showing how the switch improved my timing.

https://1drv.ms/v/s!AmzmftzD-V0mhwFH2D62ltLtBgBj

[ZPDM]

That's great, then you can also use the spacing between reeds to modulate On time. If I got my Forrest Mims intro to circuits right, then you've got an "AND" logic gate there.

[BobZilla]

As anyone who has watched my vids knows I've been working with reeds since the beginning. I'm always looking for ways to increase reliability and manipulate the "ON" time... the amount of time the reed connects and allows the transistor to be turned on. One can use a magnet in close proximity to the reed which will force it to close and open quickly as well as kind of shorten the ON time, it's very touchy however. John used 2 side by side magnets per switch on the Zero force motor to manipulate the reed further... Anyway, I've been doing this reliably for the last few months and thought I'd share:
[ATTACH=CONFIG]5606[/ATTACH]

The VENN Reed Switch
I've used this with my bike wheel (no timing wheel just the big N8's) to get the ON time down to a very small window - further increasing efficiency. Poof - "Shaka, when the walls fell."

I thought it might help with the Zero Force but did not want to clutter that thread with a possible distraction...

Great work Patrick. I might have to give this a try on my reed that switches my SSR.

Thanks for sharing!

[John_Koorn]

Very clever Patrick

John K.

[min2oly]

As anyone who has watched my vids knows I've been working with reeds since the beginning. I'm always looking for ways to increase reliability and manipulate the "ON" time... the amount of time the reed connects and allows the transistor to be turned on. One can use a magnet in close proximity to the reed which will force it to close and open quickly as well as kind of shorten the ON time, it's very touchy however. John used 2 side by side magnets per switch on the Zero force motor to manipulate the reed further... Anyway, I've been doing this reliably for the last few months and thought I'd share:


The VENN Reed Switch
I've used this with my bike wheel (no timing wheel just the big N8's) to get the ON time down to a very small window - further increasing efficiency. Poof - "Shaka, when the walls fell."

I thought it might help with the Zero Force but did not want to clutter that thread with a possible distraction...

[Faraday88]

This always stuck with me regarding the Energy:

Simplicity that he defined!!!
Rgds,
Faraday88.

[Tom C]

man... I miss Him. we used to do midnight runs to Jack in the box for tacos and talk about this. what a genius he was.... He was our living breathing Tesla. they will be mentioned in the same breath in the future.

Tom C

[min2oly]

The Spike

This always stuck with me regarding the Energy:

[min2oly]

MONOKOTE ECONKOTE
that looks like it would work well w/ a heat gun, I Think I still need to cover the magnets. I still feel quite a bit of air being pushed around even w/ a slow 170rpm...

Bob and all,
Here is one way I like to get to two spikes:

Kind Regards,
Patrick A.

Hi Randy,
I'm assuming you're reading the new posts like most everyone. So I'm replying to your question bringing to light this old post. LMK if you have further questions down this path...
Kind Regards - Patrick A.

[BobZilla]

Well I'm glad it sort of makes sense, not that important really but since I said it I wanted to try and clarify.

Yea I'm not ready to start a thread about that cap dancing bit yet. I have been working with the new machine and I actually just built another which I might post soon. The new one has no BJT's,,, only FET's. I actually used that same board I am using on the trigger of the other machine but for the coils themselves.

I had posted a lot of info about the cap dancing in another thread when I was first figuring it out and then that video sort of wrapped it all up. I don't want to clutter your thread with it but PM me if you have any specific questions about what I was doing. I thought the video pretty much explained it didn't it?

[min2oly]

Ok - maybe 4 conversations and I'm having 3 of them in my own mind

I get what you were trying to say now :-)
it's just the use of the word current throwing me off...
So I wonder if "current at faster than the speed of light" can still be called current. The discharge after the spike has plenty of current if the timing is right =2 or more than the input. The spike itself, however, I'll leave that to the experts. Your explanation sounds reasonable.

please don't spend any video time on explaining for my sake, I would much rather see how you did the bouncing cap discharge spike surf thingy. That's the one I would like to replicate.

KR,
Patrick A.

Hi guys,
Now there are at least two conversations heh,, let me try and clarify a few things about what I was saying.

First in response to Patrick



Not exactly what I meant Patrick. I think I will shoot a small video to explain what I meant but in short, the "current " I was speaking about is very little, we all know to use potential yada, yada,, but there is still current there. It can increase by poor switching or faster RPM, coil gap, etc.. but all of those spikes crunched together DO create a current, just not a large current like a conventional charger.

The point I was making is if you increase that by whichever means RPM, Input Amplitude, whatever your voltage on the output battery will rise. It does not take much either, a few ma measured can be the difference between 15v and 16.5v. Think of it this way, you know 16v is not the true voltage of those cells because when you stop charging it settles back to 13.2 or wherever right,, so while you are charging it is the little bit of current which is pressurizing and forcing the meter to show you 16v, this is a reflection of the pressure from the current.

A smaller battery as I said before will take less of this pressure to pump up to 16v, so at the same tuning on a small one may go there but a larger one reads 15v (provided both are good batteries in the first place). Your machine is tuned exactly the same for both, same spike voltage, the difference is the larger battery can take more "pressure" or current and does not rise to the same voltage. Imagine it as a fluid dynamic or a balloon, not a direct translation but it may help to understand what I mean.

I will say again that when I am talking about current in this context I am not talking about AMPs of current, I am well aware of potential charging and how a mode one charge works HOWEVER do not ignore that even those spikes DO have current and that is what I am talking about.


Now to James, yes I think you are understanding what I mean but look at it once you have a fully charged battery instead of on the climb. If you lower your input or RPM, I keep saying it that way because it is not tied directly to your input from primary, it can be but more directly it is your output so your switching speed could change the spike current too with same input, say two spike or 1 spike both can draw the same off the input if adjusted but a far different output,, Back to what I was saying on a fully charged battery you can easily see the effect I am speaking about by varyiing your output, you can make it sit at 16.5 or slow down and sit at 15v,,, the battery is no more charged either way and that was my point originally, people obsess on finishing voltages but it is relative to the current imposed and the size of the battery.

None of my comment were in relation to Patricks method of COP testing by the way.

Let me know if I am making any sense at this point. If not I can try a video, I know I have a hard time properly explaining these topics in an understandable way.

[BobZilla]

Hi guys,
Now there are at least two conversations heh,, let me try and clarify a few things about what I was saying.

First in response to Patrick

Hi Bob,
I think I am confused, it sounds like you're saying that it is the input/output current that should determine how a given battery charges, and depending on the current and the charge battery size/condition this will determine the charge curve?
I'll have to think on your words a bit more.

my thought is that it is ALL about the potential/voltage and the only time current comes into play is when I test the output of the charge battery. I'm always pushing as little current as possible.

I know what you are talking about with the charge curve, that's when you know your battery has reached it's full potential - ba-da-bum-psh... hehe This is not, however, where I have had my most efficient results. mine come at the 90% charge line this is the one I've been exploring most.

Not exactly what I meant Patrick. I think I will shoot a small video to explain what I meant but in short, the "current " I was speaking about is very little, we all know to use potential yada, yada,, but there is still current there. It can increase by poor switching or faster RPM, coil gap, etc.. but all of those spikes crunched together DO create a current, just not a large current like a conventional charger.

The point I was making is if you increase that by whichever means RPM, Input Amplitude, whatever your voltage on the output battery will rise. It does not take much either, a few ma measured can be the difference between 15v and 16.5v. Think of it this way, you know 16v is not the true voltage of those cells because when you stop charging it settles back to 13.2 or wherever right,, so while you are charging it is the little bit of current which is pressurizing and forcing the meter to show you 16v, this is a reflection of the pressure from the current.

A smaller battery as I said before will take less of this pressure to pump up to 16v, so at the same tuning on a small one may go there but a larger one reads 15v (provided both are good batteries in the first place). Your machine is tuned exactly the same for both, same spike voltage, the difference is the larger battery can take more "pressure" or current and does not rise to the same voltage. Imagine it as a fluid dynamic or a balloon, not a direct translation but it may help to understand what I mean.

I will say again that when I am talking about current in this context I am not talking about AMPs of current, I am well aware of potential charging and how a mode one charge works HOWEVER do not ignore that even those spikes DO have current and that is what I am talking about.


Now to James, yes I think you are understanding what I mean but look at it once you have a fully charged battery instead of on the climb. If you lower your input or RPM, I keep saying it that way because it is not tied directly to your input from primary, it can be but more directly it is your output so your switching speed could change the spike current too with same input, say two spike or 1 spike both can draw the same off the input if adjusted but a far different output,, Back to what I was saying on a fully charged battery you can easily see the effect I am speaking about by varyiing your output, you can make it sit at 16.5 or slow down and sit at 15v,,, the battery is no more charged either way and that was my point originally, people obsess on finishing voltages but it is relative to the current imposed and the size of the battery.

None of my comment were in relation to Patricks method of COP testing by the way.

Let me know if I am making any sense at this point. If not I can try a video, I know I have a hard time properly explaining these topics in an understandable way.