How to Make a Bedini Crystal Battery

[James Milner]

Kzep,
When I looked into aluminium sulphate chemistry it is quite unique in that it is capable of hydrolysis to function as a weak acid or a weak base dependant on the ph of the water. Therefore it can form OH- ions (base) or H+ ions. I suspect if you treat the battery with baking soda, which is alkaline that you will form more OH- ions which is not what you want. These will bond ironically with your H+ ions to form more water thereby weakening the ionic medium to be able to conduct current.
We want it neutral to mildly acidic.
This also is part of the reason for using distilled water. Most tap water carries dissolved minerals and is likely to be slightly alkaline. The other is that other metal ions can contaminate the plates as when charge goes into the batteries these metal ions take in the e- charges to form solid metal on the plate, thereby rendering that surface area useless.
As John has been saying the surface area is critical for current output.

Hope that helps.
James

[k4zep]

So the final solution is The lead Acid battery is tricked into believing that it has Sulfuric Acid in it, here is the molar mass and Atomic weight.

Aluminum 26.9 Atomic weight Mass percent 15.7 %

Sulfur 32.06 Atomic weight Mass percent 28.11%

Oxygen 15.99 Atomic Weight Mass percent 56.113 %

Number of Atoms AL= 2
S= 3
O= 12

Hi John, All,

I believe you are right John, My new little battery works but is very weak and my old battery that I brought back with your Renaissance charger work's like a champ had acid in it, I wonder if it would be better if Baking Soda was NOT used in the cleaning process, just a thorough rinsing with distilled water?.

I sent off my West Mountain Radio Discharger yesterday and traded it in for a series 4 upgrade, it should be back in a few days. Sort of naked without it. Working on another little project and will get back to batteries, etc. in a few days. John, you can call me on my cell, 727-418-Sixty Two Hundred any time. Talking about 1 summer LED lights, we have 12 around our pool here at the condo and in the last 9 months since they were put in, two have failed due to corrosion and 2 bad Nicads.

Ben K4ZEP

[John_Bedini]

So the final solution is The lead Acid battery is tricked into believing that it has Sulfuric Acid in it, here is the molar mass and Atomic weight.

Aluminum 26.9 Atomic weight Mass percent 15.7 %

Sulfur 32.06 Atomic weight Mass percent 28.11%

Oxygen 15.99 Atomic Weight Mass percent 56.113 %

Number of Atoms AL= 2
S= 3
O= 12

[John_Bedini]

Lidmotor,
Radio Shack has that adapter from serial to USB it's hanging on the rack with the cables.
it for that meter and others.

@All
I have been doing the charge / discharge testing like everybody else and my findings are about the same. I bought the Radio Shack meter that plugs into a computer so I can do the graphing but the connector cable didn't fit my computer. I had to send away for the adapter.

I made a small test cell using some lead oxide (lithrage) pasted into holes drilled into the plates and it really improved the performance. It was a good experiment to prove that you can make a strong cell without ever using sulfric acid.

My motorcycle battery conversion continues to work but I have to make sure not boil off the water with over charging.

Lidmotor

[John_Bedini]

Branch,
The balanced equation is 2Al + 3H2SO4 --> 3H2 + Al2(SO4)3

Thanks John.

[Branch Gordon]

Thanks John.

Branch,
I have always used new batteries, but I always formed them first so that the plate material was active, very important. I do think Ben should have done that first, then changed the solution and started his curves, just like his big battery. I have put allot of work into the Alum Batteries. The only reason I used junk plates was to see if the SO4 was in the plates. The Alum mixture cancels the SO4 (AG) and locks it up in the crystal. Hydrates are the only thing that I know of that does it . When I first did the battery I did wash them out, but I found out you do not need to, the alum is all you need mixed with water. If you use a bad battery do not ask for much. Bad sulfated batteries dried out do not ask for much unless you use the negative plates. I will do some more videos on this as soon as I get some time.

[Lidmotor]

Testing - testing- and more testing.

@All
I have been doing the charge / discharge testing like everybody else and my findings are about the same. I bought the Radio Shack meter that plugs into a computer so I can do the graphing but the connector cable didn't fit my computer. I had to send away for the adapter.

I made a small test cell using some lead oxide (lithrage) pasted into holes drilled into the plates and it really improved the performance. It was a good experiment to prove that you can make a strong cell without ever using sulfric acid.

My motorcycle battery conversion continues to work but I have to make sure not boil off the water with over charging.

Lidmotor

[John_Bedini]

Branch,
I have always used new batteries, but I always formed them first so that the plate material was active, very important. I do think Ben should have done that first, then changed the solution and started his curves, just like his big battery. I have put allot of work into the Alum Batteries. The only reason I used junk plates was to see if the SO4 was in the plates. The Alum mixture cancels the SO4 (AG) and locks it up in the crystal. Hydrates are the only thing that I know of that does it . When I first did the battery I did wash them out, but I found out you do not need to, the alum is all you need mixed with water. If you use a bad battery do not ask for much. Bad sulfated batteries dried out do not ask for much unless you use the negative plates. I will do some more videos on this as soon as I get some time.

[Branch Gordon]

One other question...is it better to use old sulfated batteries for conversions, or brand-new batteries?

[Branch Gordon]

I will leave baking soda out of it. Was just gonna use to neutralize the acid while flushing it out...but I will do that after it's emptied into whatever container I put it in.

Thanks!

Branch,
Dump out acid after a full charge, do not use baking soda wrong chemical, just let drain for hour or so add strong mix alum SO4 will lock up in chemical, that's it. Charge and run curves. Battery should be condition after that. I have never used Baking Soda in any of this. Remember what I just said in above post.

[John_Bedini]

Branch,
Dump out acid after a full charge, do not use baking soda wrong chemical, just let drain for hour or so add strong mix alum SO4 will lock up in chemical, that's it. Charge and run curves. Battery should be condition after that. I have never used Baking Soda in any of this. Remember what I just said in above post.

Ok...my alum has arrived and I have two small 5AH lead acid batteries I'm going to be converting. See attached photo.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]735[/ATTACH]

I just want to confirm the process before I get started. Let me know if I have anything wrong please.

1. Charge up both batteries
2. Empty out acid and dispose of (safely).
3. Flush out with mixture of distilled water and baking soda.
4. Continue to flush out with distilled water until it comes out clear.
5. Let dry upside down for a couple days.
6. Mix up 10% alum/distilled water. Adjust until it has a slippery consistency.
7. Pour Alum/distilled water mixture into the cells.
8. Charge up and discharge a few times to form crystals.
9. Ready to use!

This all sound right? I'm not sure if step 8 is totally accurate...

Also, my alum is not currently in a powder form. Do I need to grind these crystals down, or will they just dissolve in water?

Thanks for any help!

[trancedrum]

My Alum conversion

Hi All,

I made a video of my conversion with alum.Nice adventure whit editing (i have four video to make one )
Be patient with my words, they are not always right.
I understand more and appreciate all the participants of this forum and work to make a video of this type.
I'm learning.
Impedance's, load ......... I saw that at the end, when I thought that the battery was almost empty, I changed the load (LED light) with a resistance of 20 ohms and I found that he still charged.
I think now I understand better what JB says about " when you know the battery that you have you choose the load."
The GoalZero LED has a resistance of 12 Mohm (this is what I measured) and the C20 discharge rate I made with a resistance of 20 ohms so the discharge is different.Of curse.
At the end of the video (I ended up memory space) I continued discharging the battery with the resistance of 20 ohms for another 3 hours up to 5.46V @ 250mA then I short-circuit (dead short) for 3 minutes and went to 3V@ 1.4A then opened the short-circuit and it returned to 5.63V. The next day was resting at 8.14V.
I believe that for a start is good.
However, I will continue with the experiments now that I've decided to spend more time that finally have.
I have some lead ,to make my plates ,that a friend give me .
I do not know if I did something wrong, but if you want to correct me please do.
Thanks to JB and all of you on the forum. Is an inspiration.

Ralph

[John_Bedini]

Ben,Ossie.
Crystal batteries use Hydrates that is to say that the crystals lock in the water. However the Alum in a lead acid cell needs to be balanced.
Alum is made with Sulfuric Acid that is the SO4 however but you have 12 H2O's plus what you add. The best working cells seem to be where everything is balanced out. to be neutral, meaning the the solution can move between the two chemicals. Copper Sulfate can not do it because of the lead. PbO2 was my mistake in the beginning as that is the active material Pb is straight lead Negative plate. To use the alum the SO4 must be in balance. Then you will see a much different curve because it is not either lead acid or alum. The crystal will lock up the SO4 in balance, so you wont even know it is in the mix. This takes long hours of Research into the chemistry. We Are going to track all the curves including the original Copper Magnesium cell and show the curves, but it's the time involved. Please try to remember where I'm looking at running the cells. I'm only concerned about lighting for long lasting Led's. It almost like Solar Lights except the chemistry is much different. Will be posting more videos on the conversions.

[Tom C]

Greetings All,

There's some great real work being done here in this forum with these technologies by many. I am glad to see it. With the economics of solar technologies now bringing our future of cheap clean energy much closer, real work in these fields of research is badly needed.

I'd like to pose an interesting question. Can a badly sulfated LA battery that has dried up and crystalized be considered to be a "Crystal Battery"?

Ossie

I think that is called a "Doorstop"


Tom C

[LesK]

Branch,
Heat the water to get the alum dissolved.

Les

Ok...my alum has arrived and I have two small 5AH lead acid batteries I'm going to be converting. See attached photo.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]735[/ATTACH]

I just want to confirm the process before I get started. Let me know if I have anything wrong please.

1. Charge up both batteries
2. Empty out acid and dispose of (safely).
3. Flush out with mixture of distilled water and baking soda.
4. Continue to flush out with distilled water until it comes out clear.
5. Let dry upside down for a couple days.
6. Mix up 10% alum/distilled water. Adjust until it has a slippery consistency.
7. Pour Alum/distilled water mixture into the cells.
8. Charge up and discharge a few times to form crystals.
9. Ready to use!

This all sound right? I'm not sure if step 8 is totally accurate...

Also, my alum is not currently in a powder form. Do I need to grind these crystals down, or will they just dissolve in water?

Thanks for any help!