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waking the dead

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  • waking the dead

    Took a dead 10 yr old 160 cca John Deer lawn tractor battery topped it with distilled water and cycled it on my sg 30+ times several months ago, thought I would wake it. It would take the charge, and "leak" back down to 7 volts. 2 bad cells? Sure. I gave up and put it on the shelf. Last weekend, since it is smaller, i figured I would practice making an alum with it. Charged it with conventional charger to 15 volts, drained, and rinsed it 4x with distilled. Dried it out for a couple days. Heated up some distilled water and mixed up some alum. Poured it in and charged it first time with conventional dc to 13.5 volts. Drew 1 amp for 4 hours down to 10.8 and it bounced back to 11.2 volts and stayed over the weekend. Battery would be a 8 ah equivelent. Now charging with sg mode 1, seems to be hungry for a charge as it is taking a bit to charge it up. Very promising and exciting. Aln
    Last edited by aln; 01-08-2014, 01:11 PM. Reason: adding info

  • #2
    So as I was dumping out the acid of 3 more problem batteries, I decided to seperate the clean acid from the top of the batt from the stuff on the bottom with the black stuff in it and put them in seperate buckets. The next morning I found the black gunk to sink so I poured some from the dirty sulfuric acid into the clean acid bucket. I am thinking of mixing up a hybrid mix of batt acid and alum to put in a battery and try out just to get a better cold weather battery from the Alum.

    Mikey, you have just added alum to a battery with sulfuric acid in it right? That would make it a hybrid. How is voltage compared to straight alum?

    Well on the John Deere batt I charged it to 14.2 volts now and let it sit overnight. It came down to 12.06 by this morning. I am now discharging it at .52 amps. We will see how she looks tonight. I will have to charge it with my little 3pmp kit as I fried a transistor on my bike wheel circuit due a different battery (not alum) not taking a charge. I had no protection on the circuit as I just wanted to slap it together to see if it would work and since it did, I just kept using it. Until now. Time to do things right and add the neons and big cap on the end like Mike. Aln


    • #3
      I understand the locking up of the sulfuric acid in the alum crystals, I have seen the discharge curves (linear like NiCad), I have read every thread and watched every alum video on this website. Some multiple times. I am very happy with the battery that I woke from the dead with the help of John Bedini and other expiramentors like yourself. It will serve a great porpose for me as will others that I will make.

      I discharged my JD battery at .52 amps for 15 hours straight and stopped at 10pm last night where the battery was at 10.26 volts. This morning it rested at 10.86 and I began charging again. I should mention that I checked the amp draw that I was pulling and it was only .45 when I disconected. So even if I was being conservative; .45*10.26=4.6 watts for 15 hours minimum. From a crap lawn mower battery. All this in my garage at 48 degrees Farenheit.

      It is -30 degrees where I live and was wondering about using alum somehow for a cold weather battery that would start a car that was not garaged in this weather. I wasn't clear in my voltage question. I understand the terminal voltage will climb as I continue cycling my battery, I was meaning something comparable to CCA as that is what I pondering. Holding a higher voltage in the cold so as not to need all tha amps and burn out a starter/solenoid on the automobile. I accept your answer,

      "The Alum is not to blame for US NOT KNOWING WHAT BATTERY we have."

      I have created a deep cycle battery that discharges like a NiCad, thanks to the instructions of JB, awesome. Now I run cycles and examine, I might play with a few of my other ideas and fail miserably, o-well. I am happy, and I thank the Lord for steering me toward JB's technology. Aln

      p.s. I have found that battery acid makes the cement floor look nice and clean, almost white
      Last edited by aln; 01-08-2014, 01:08 PM.


      • #4
        I went and found BZAR's compilation of the mixes mentioned a year ago and may mess with them for dead batteries as well. Here it is from page 54 of crystal battery thread.

        "The Mix:
        Unfortunately there’s no precise mixture explained in clear terms, so I’ve pieced together different mix combo’s as they were disclosed. So pick a battery and mix combo?….I guess it’s up to you to experiment.

        Mix 1: Alum and Distilled water. That’s it. Mix to a consistency of the “Alum water” being slippery to the touch. I’ve read ratios of 3 to 1 water to Alum. 10 to 1 water to Alum, and anywhere in between. It is noted to heat the distilled water to around 120f to get all the Alum to mix in well. Do not use tap water!

        Mix 2: 60% Alum, 40% SO4 - if you have 200mL to fill the battery you need 120mL Alum solution and 80mL SO4 solution.
        For example start with 120mL of distilled water heated to 120F (microwave oven), add the Alum and keep mixing until you get that slippery feeling and all the Alum is dissolved and then add the 80mL of SO4 solution. Use the syringe to put 33mL of the total mix in each cell.

        Mix 3: - 3 cups of water - 1 cup of Alum - 1/2 Cup of Sodium Silicate - 1/8 cup SO4 - 1 Tablespoon of Hydrate 9 or 5.
        - Mix the Alum and water first.
        - Do not let the mixture gel up unless you want to do something else (ie. Paste to plates or create a gel type battery) keep mixing, then just let it sit for a while (I think till crystals start to form?) and then mix and draw the liquid out for the battery. John explained It's not hard to make this mix you can see it forms the crystals when mixing the Alum with the acid, then you stop and mix in the hydrate, and that will then form another crystal."

        I am using mix #1. Aln


        • #5
          Still charging... 12.17 this morning on my baby charger. Need to get my beast copy going again. Wish I didn't have to work for a living maybe in 10 years I will be installing bedini energizers and solar trackers for people for a living, thats a nice thought. Aln
          Last edited by aln; 01-09-2014, 03:20 PM. Reason: spelling


          • #6
            Finally over 14 volts this morning. 14.14v at 0525 hrs so I cheated and threw it on gen mode for a few minutes and got it to15.14 volts then unhooked it and rested it for a 5 minutes down to 13.09 volts. Then started discharging it at 1 amp. Next charge will probably be in gen mode so I don't have to wait 2 days. Aln


            • #7
              Discharged it to 10.2 volts yesterday, started charging it w/ 3pm kit in gen mode and 23 hours later it was 15.3 volts, so now it will rest for a bit and I will discharge it again. Gonna make another alum batt with a motorcraft 750 that also had a bad cell. Debating mix #2 (60 percent alum 40 percent SO4) as soon as I get the big wheel going. It is drained and dried and I only wrecked one pair of pants . One day I will take the time to make a video, as I am sure reading this is a bore to most. Aln


              • #8
                Not boring at all aln Keep posting, I'm following right along...

                John K.


                • #9
                  I guess I will keep on it for who ever is watching. Didn't realize I had caught the eye of a moderator I discharged it at a half amp for 15.5 hours again and terminal voltage was 10.67. I rested it for a couple of hours and it came up to 11.04. Now charging again. Will be away from the project and the computer for a few days so when I charge it I will leave it and see if holds the charge. I will let you all know. Aln


                  • #10
                    Back at it again. Charged it up with a conventional 10 amp charger sunday night into monday so It would be full by the time I left. I used conventional due because I haven't had time to fix my big bedini and my little one is down to 1 or 2 transistors as I carelessly try things with it and it would take more time to charge than I had. Anyway, charged the batt to 15.68 overnight and 4 hours later it was resting at 12.14 volts. I then left for work training. About 56 hours later the battery was down to 11.8(?) I'll have to look to get the exact, so I started discharging last night at a half amp. This morning (9 hours later) it was at 11.1 volts so I left it discharging as I went to work. It will be discharging for almost 20 hours by the time I get home, but the inverter that I am using will probably shut off before I get there. I wonder how far the battery will go down if I just leave it for a month, does it still have 2 problem cells, or is it natural for alum to dip down with a rest? So I will continue cycles for a week with the bedini and then let it sit unless that is a bad idea. chime in anyone. Aln
                    Last edited by aln; 01-16-2014, 01:38 PM. Reason: clarify


                    • #11
                      Thank you mikey, I suppose it is high time to build me a cap dump and start sloshing the battery a bit. I've been staring at schematics long enough. I did get a nice long discharge out of the battery anyway, about 20 hours. by the end I was only drawing 1/4 of an amp though and the voltage was at 10.1 volts. Aln


                      • #12
                        Well, had an interesting weekend. Started working on cap dump, had some issues. Then a magnet broke through the plastic on my 3pm kit rotor (it was weakend from problem I mentioned in another thread) and I found it to be stuck to the bottom of one of my coils, neo of cousre. So I stole a transistor from that circuit, as I ran out of them, and reworked my bike wheel 14 awg circuit, all the while mixing up some alum for a couple more battery's. Big wheel keep on turning, back in business. Aln


                        • #13
                          2 steps forward and 1 back


                          • #14
                            Built a comparator cap dump based off of Patrick's design and started charging the JD battery again last night. this morning it was up to 15.85 volts and I disconnected it. Then I unhooked it and a few hours later it was 12.34 so I put a load on it and it has been going for several hours at a half an amp and is still 11.3. I think I am still having issues with that one cell, but remember I did have 2 bad cells when I started. I will continue this for a few days maybe a couple weeks, before I give up on it and make it a door stop. It is still useful for led lights even with a bad cell though. Aln


                            • #15
                              Thought I would finish this thread off as I just left it unfinished and the conversion actually was a success. The John Deere battery has been sitting for months used very little and not charged fully till 2 days ago. I charged it up to 16.17 volts with conventional charging type and let it sit for 2 days. It was resting at 11.73 tonight so I put a LED lamp that draws .5 amps on it at 8:20 pm. I'll show results for a couple cycles, to show this battery has been awaken from the dead, even though the inductive spike wouldn't fix it before it was converted to alum. The Alum battery has a lower standing voltage than a standard lead acid battery. Aln
                              Last edited by aln; 09-05-2014, 05:11 AM. Reason: changed amp draw