pushing old car battery filled with alum mix to the limmits

[knagtegl]

Hi,

I converted an old car battery that did not start the car anymore to an alum battery and after a few charges I did some
experiments to see if it could realy deliver some current.
I could drive a few 500 wat devices with an inverter on it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xGsHSe9Ugs

After a few weeks it was still at about the same standing voltage and performing ok.

Karel

[aln]

Karel,
Did you use just Alum or the Alum/hydrate mix? How is battery performing? Was battery still holding 12 volts when you converted it? Aln

[knagtegl]

Aln,

The alum was the one used for pickels, the standing voltage is now bearly 12 volt but the amp draw is very good. I am thinking of converting a big 100 Amp/hour battery. I first wanted to know if a inverter would run on it and it does. Only the discharge seems to go linear down to 0 volts if needed but the inverter stops at 10 volts.

Karel

[aln]

Karel, thanks for response, I believe you are using just Alum and Distilled water. JB came up with this battery conversion for lighting I understand, but like you and mikey, I intend to take some old car batteries and see what I can do with them. Aln

[knagtegl]

I just converted a 110 A/h glassfiber battery to an Alum based battery and made a YT of it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaBNvaN5o04&feature=c4-overview&list=UUMvWsvAOAiMdd0QLkexdyQA

It shows the exact mix I used.
I also found out today that it doesn't hurt to keep a little acid in the battery (I could not clean everything out due to glass fiber tech I tink).

Karel

[aln]

nice video's let us know how adding the Epsom salt and acid works out. Aln

[knagtegl]

Aln,

Thanks, I have made some more about how its is holding after the conversion:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOj-QBUVFE8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3tTYn4YplE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zhlWiZscWM

It seems to get better every run, I wil do the adding of epsom salt later when I can find some.

Karel

[aln]

Ordered a few pounds of alum, can't wait to get to work. Aln

[Dennis J]

Hi everyone ,just pondering an idea. If people are unable to find a supply of Alum in a ready to use form, then maybe another means to acquire (Aluminum Ammonium Sulfate) can be done by simply buying them separately?

For instance buy Aluminum Sulphate and Ammonium Sulphate individually and mix the two together

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ammonium-Sulphate-250gm-Fixing-Agent-Acid-Dyes-/140672309143?pt=UK_BOI_Medical_Lab_Equipment_Lab_Supplies_ET&hash=item20c0b91797

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/200g-of-ALUMINIUM-SULPHATE-Al2-S04-3-Iron-Free-Mordant-Purifier-PH-reducer-/111123026070?pt=UK_BOI_Medical_Lab_Equipment_Lab_Supplies_ET&hash=item19df72d096

Just wondering if this could be a good workaround if you cannot purchase Alum ready made.

[min2oly]

Here is my small Alum battery conversion.

7.5Ah battery was cycled for 2 years w/ the normal acid. starting to show signs of degradation and build up on the plates as well as on the bottom of the case where lead falls and eventually shorts out the plates. I purchased the battery brand new w/ no acid. Charge discharge once or twice a week.

I purchased some alum while shopping for nuts and candy http://www.nuts.com/ no idea if it has the elements we need or are looking for here.

so I tried draining all the acid and could not get it all out, my best guess is about 2-3% remained and whatever was soaked up between the plates.

I boiled some distilled water and in a separate room temp pyrex bowl, I added one part water and one part alum. I mixed until clear then added another part alum mixed until clear then added another, at this point the mix would not clear nore would all the alum dissolve
so that's 3 alum to 1 water.

I added the alum water mix to the battery using a pipet making sure to get only the mix at the top while the undissolved tiny bits of alum remained at the bottom of the mixing bowel.

after filling the battery, it had a standing 12.5ish volts. I had charged it prior to dumping the acid.

I preceded to charge it w/ a Zap battery charger a friend gave me - it uses a cap discharge method. it dumps a large cap of low voltage 14/15volts across the battery. the plates started to form crystals immediately. In fact I could see the entire chamber filling with crystals and looking like it would become solid as most of my other crystal batteries have done as well.

at the end of the charge cycle it was looking 70-80% (guessing) solid. I proceeded to discharge using 7.2 watts (600mA) for a few hours.

At the end of the discharge cycle, the mixture was 100% liquid again. And now after many cycles there is a thin coating of crystals remaining on the plates at all times.
here is one of the recent charge discharge cycles:



the first charge you see is using the Zap charger, this charger only goes to about 13.7 volts +/-
the second charging you see is on a solid state CPD mod'd aluminum coil energizer.
I only take it to 14.5V in this pic.

The discharge is at 7.2 watts (600mA).

I do all these runs in the garage where the temp has been fluctuating between 30-50 degrees .

My leftover alum mix is in a jar and remains a milky very thick liquid, I recently grabbed a little bit of it warmed it up in a microwave to get it more liquidy to make a small copper/magnesium battery after pouring it cooled completely solid...

Peace,
Patrick

[aln]

SO you charged it till 8:30pm, rest till 9:30pm (bedtime for the kids ) discharge till 4:30 am (no sleep for patrick) and then let it come back up a little. So you are roughly pulling 2.5 amps for 7 hours in a 7.5 am hour battery. Looks like a winner. Nice! I do not think I have that concentrated of a mix, maybe I should thicken it up some more before I dump it in my next batteries. I mixed until I saw sediment stay, but I wasn't boiling it, just heated it up. Aln

[min2oly]

thanks for pointing that out Al,
I should not do the maths on the fly in the AM (too old now for simple arithmetic) :-)

That was charging at about 3.6 watts (300mA) at the peak draw and discharging at about 7.2 watts (600mA)
I should get another amp meter to track the amp draw on the discharge so I don't have to think about it. Also, the amp draw changes as time goes.

Yes, patrick is up all hours!
cheers,
Patrick

[JJ409]

thanks for pointing that out Al,
I should not do the maths on the fly in the AM (too old now for simple arithmetic) :-)

That was charging at about 3.6 watts (300mA) at the peak draw and discharging at about 7.2 watts (600mA)
I should get another amp meter to track the amp draw on the discharge so I don't have to think about it. Also, the amp draw changes as time goes.

Yes, patrick is up all hours!
cheers,
Patrick

Hello min2oly,

I like your style.

Please clarify: Is the capacity of your alum battery higher than the original rating of the battery?

How is the battery holding up?
I'm interested because I want to put 4 100ah batteries into a 48 volt, Chinese, electric car that I just bought.

Also, Did you ever mix anything into the alum ?

JD

[wild weasel]

just a snap qestion about your battery

is it delivering peak amps as well?
making the amp hour rate is one thing but delivering starting amps is another.

i have here a problem with mine its delivering its amp hour rate but starting the car is a close call.

regards
weasel

[aln]

Hello min2oly,

I like your style.

Please clarify: Is the capacity of your alum battery higher than the original rating of the battery?

How is the battery holding up?
I'm interested because I want to put 4 100ah batteries into a 48 volt, Chinese, electric car that I just bought.

Also, Did you ever mix anything into the alum ?

JD

I can not speak for Patrick but I would say that alum is not for cold weather and you will have a lower resting voltage, which can be made up for if you add cells. Aln