Branch's SSG Build

[Yaro1776]

Branch,

Thanks for your reply and status, looking forward to whatever information you can share in this adventure. The Snowman 8 trans SSG started its first COP run today. Tweaked about as good as I can get it for a rank beginner - freewheel time now is at 10 min and 55 secs. Check on the progress on the Snowman thread.

Good luck with your data and testing,
Yaro

[Branch Gordon]

I wanted to share a couple things I have learned that I think might benefit the beginners.

1. Tuning to max RPM at 1 spike is not necessarily synonymous with tuning to the C20 rate of your battery. If you are using lawn/tractor batteries to start off with, like me, the amp draw at 1 spike is way over C20. Max RPM might work well for larger deep cycles, but keep in mind that if you are pulling above C20 on your primaries run after run, you are going to crap them out (as I have experienced).

2. When using the analog amp meters, the cables you use to hook them up in series to your battery add resistance which affects tuning. The alligator clip leads you can buy from radio shack are not going to give you good results, and are going to fudge up your numbers. Make your own clip leads with 12ga wire.

3. I am now tuning by ear. What I mean is that, as your bike wheel speeds up, if you listen close you will hear a buzzing sound at certain RPM points. I can hear it coming mostly from somewhere around the POT on my board, but it seems to come from along the coil wires too. Get your ear down next to your board and really listen as it speeds up. Once you zero in on what I'm talking about, you will begin to hear it very easily. I believe that these are resonant points...and that the additional buzzing are harmonics from the base coil frequency.

4. I have been experimenting with checking the AC coming back to the primary with my multimeter. At one spike at any resistance, I get these pulses of around 40V coming back to the primary. However, at around 295-320 RPM (which is 2 spikes for me), I hear the buzzing resonance mentioned above, and those AC spikes coming back to the primary jump to 240V. Try it and see...just set your DMM to AC and hook it up to the leads on your primary while the SG is running.

I am now tuned to this resonant point, which is at 550mA and is a safe discharge rate for these lawn/tractor batteries. Running new curves and tracking in the COP spreadsheet....looks promising so far. I'll keep everyone posted.

[Tom C]

Good work Branch, keep it up.

Tom C

[Yaro1776]

Branch,

Appreciate your sharing some of the basic tuning info - more interestingly the information and observations with respect to resonant frequency and harmonics related to wheel rpm. This is great practical info for the many frustrated beginners out there and points out the importance of final tuning. Great example of AC pulses back to Primary battery...

Yaro

[Yaro1776]

Branch,

Appreciate your sharing some of the basic tuning info - more interestingly the information and observations with respect to resonant frequency and harmonics related to wheel rpm. This is great practical info for the many frustrated beginners out there and points out the importance of final tuning. Great example of AC pulses back to Primary battery...

Yaro

[Branch Gordon]

Taking a moment to share some things as I haven't posted in awhile. I am still running my SG every day and studying it. I have experienced the same issue that some of the other beginners have experienced, where the charge battery loses capacity and eventually fails. My theory on why this has happened to me is pushing too much current to the charge battery.

I believe running the 4 or 8 transistor kit at one spike with the recommended coil for a starter battery is overkill...just charging it up with current and not radiant spikes. This is why sizing the batteries to the system, or vice versa is recommended.

This past charging run I backed my tuning down to 3 spikes, with the output at 130mA...and it still charges to 15.3V just fine...in around the same amount of time. Another option I think would be for me to disconnect the other power wires and just run off of 1 transistor...that way I could tune to 1 spike, and still be in the low current range that isn't cooking my battery.

If I were using larger deep cycles batteries, I don't think I would be dealing with this issue.

Just some things to ponder. I am continuing with this new tuning for awhile to see if I can get my charge battery back up to where it needs to be. It started off putting out 10AH discharged down to 12.2V months ago, now it puts out half of that.

[Yaro1776]

Branch good observations on charge battery capacity decrease after using the SSG. Not sure about the spikes since an oscilloscope is not in my arsenal of tools at this time. Your testing observations are muchly appreciated.

The same type of behavior has been observed during my tuning tests. I have switched to a two charge battery parallel arrangement - my initial tests of a brand new NAPA 8224N showed a decrease from 19.5 hrs at a 0.5 Amp draw down to 11 hrs after a few charge/discharge cycles with the SSG. This duplicated the same lowered charge capacity behavior as another identical battery.

A couple of interesting points here. The first charge battery upper voltage threshold was 15.3 volts and I eventually tried jacking this up to about 15.65 volts after seeing the capacity drop by about 50 percent. This minor change increased the capacity by about 30 to 50 percent and this remained as long as the end charge voltage was higher than 15.3 volts.

Another interesting point noted during SSG play time was keeping track of the input voltage on the charge battery. Varying the RPM by base resistance change gives you a relative value of the charging potential being pumped into the battery. In this particular case and config raising the base resistance will show a drop in the charge battery voltage, while decreasing the resistance will show an immediate rise in the charge voltage. This was done by simply switching the trigger wire from with Resistor to without Resistor.

To complicate this further it appears that the final charge end voltage (15.3v or whatever) is not a truly reliable indicator of a fully charged battery. This can be verified by altering the SSG config slightly during multiple charges and discharges. A number of individual tests have verified this behavior.

It also appears that the lower voltage threshold of 12.2v is a deceptive limit. Numerous discharges of the above batteries down to 12.1v has shown that a lot of capacity remains below 12.2v - more than could be expected.

One can only speculate that the SSG charging process is modifying the battery plates in some fashion and our expectations of high and low end voltage thresholds need to be examined with a more critical eye.

Keep on spinning!

Yaro

[aln]

In a perfect cell, 2.7 volts can be reached. 2.7x6=16.2 volts in a 6 cell battery (that is in perfect condition, with all sulfate off plates and into sulfuric acid soultion, no layers of sulfate hiding or deposited on bottom of battery: I am not saying you should expect this, just fyi). Yaro, are you discharging to 12.2 under load, or 12.2 after rest? My batteries can be pulled to under 12.0 and bounce back up over 12.2 volts, depending on the batt and the rate of dischage. Aln

[Yaro1776]

As the SSG turns

Aln,

The basic issue here is that we are all doing various tests without a formalized procedure or format. Some experimenters are drawing down to 12.2v while others are going to 12.0v. If that is the case the final COP's are bogus for comparison purposes. We need to be on the same page with a distinct procedure in order for the results to be comparable and valid.

The same mindset applies to the upper limit charge voltage. The 15.3v limit (gospel) is a BS value that is dependent on the individual configs of the SSG. Pardon my French...

If there is to be true progress in the overall SSG replication effort, then there have to be some formalized guidelines that allow the final data from multiple testers to be valid. Otherwise all of us are urinating into the wind...

We are hijacking Branch's thread and if this subject is useful another thread should be initiated.

Yaro

[Branch Gordon]

CBA III trouble

Hey all. I've done some in depth troubleshooting for awhile now and have determined that my CBA III is fried. It's possible SG spikes have screwed up it...or it could just be heavy use...not sure. It will chart in charge monitor mode just fine...but in discharge mode it intermittently draws WAY more current than it's supposed to. I think it might be short circuiting the charge battery. Every battery I run discharge curves on with it slowly loses capacity. My charge curves always look great though.

I figured this out just by using some LED lighting to discharge, and just using charge monitor mode..and I'm getting great capacity now.

So users of the CBA III with the SG, be forewarned that you MIGHT have issues with this.

Looking forward to some AH increases now.

[guyzzemf]

branch
you might try putting cap across run battery [how big?] what size batt? one transistor it will take a long time if ever to do a starter battery
if you stay at the 130 ish ma per transistor you should not push too much currant
guy

[Branch Gordon]

Hi guyzzemf,

Thank you for the tips...but I'm not sure if maybe you meant to post to someone else? I just made a post about my CBA...but what you just recommended doesn't have anything to do with that.

branch
you might try putting cap across run battery [how big?] what size batt? one transistor it will take a long time if ever to do a starter battery
if you stay at the 130 ish ma per transistor you should not push too much currant
guy

[min2oly]

Hi Branch,
I believe Guy is responding to this post 291...
http://www.energyscienceforum.com/sh...ll=1#post14305

from 3/28/14

I have not noticed a decrease in Ah w/ my good batteries. I hope this works out for you. I've been reading your build w/ interest for a while. Is your wave anything like JB's DVD2 10coiler? The ringing...
Of course the "ringing" varies depending on charge bat.
Kind Regards,
Patrick A.

Hi guyzzemf,

Thank you for the tips...but I'm not sure if maybe you meant to post to someone else? I just made a post about my CBA...but what you just recommended doesn't have anything to do with that.

[Branch Gordon]

I have identified that my CBA discharges were killing my batteries. It has developed an issue and I need to send it in to get fixed.

Now just using a "real" load to discharge with.

Hi Branch,
I believe Guy is responding to this post 291...
http://www.energyscienceforum.com/sh...ll=1#post14305

from 3/28/14

I have not noticed a decrease in Ah w/ my good batteries. I hope this works out for you. I've been reading your build w/ interest for a while. Is your wave anything like JB's DVD2 10coiler? The ringing...
Of course the "ringing" varies depending on charge bat.
Kind Regards,
Patrick A.

[guyzzemf]

Taking a moment to share some things as I haven't posted in awhile. I am still running my SG every day and studying it. I have experienced the same issue that some of the other beginners have experienced, where the charge battery loses capacity and eventually fails. My theory on why this has happened to me is pushing too much current to the charge battery.
-0-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
i read to fast i though you meant you killing the run bat [me bad] no coffee yet ///[[charge battery loses capacity ]]