Branch's SSG Build

[Branch Gordon]

It looks like Exide is the manufacturer of these Napa batteries. I looked on their website for some recommended D.O.D. specs. They are saying 20 percent is NOT recommended. 50 percent is the lowest they are recommending from their PDF, which is 12.44V.

Here is a link to the doc: http://exide.com/Media/files/Downloa...7;205_9_13.pdf

So...should I go ahead and following the manufacturers recommendations here, or go lower due to the nature of the SG machine and how it charges?

[John_Koorn]

Hi Branch, the link didn't work for me. Perhaps you could attach it?

I would think you could safely take them down to 12.0v as long as you charge them straight up again.

John K.

[Branch Gordon]

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bzsw...it?usp=sharing''

Hi John-

Does the above link work? I uploaded it to my Google drive...

Hi Branch, the link didn't work for me. Perhaps you could attach it?

I would think you could safely take them down to 12.0v as long as you charge them straight up again.

John K.

[John_Koorn]

Hi Branch, yes it did work. But I can't see the Lawn & Tractor battery listed on the chart.

John K.

[Branch Gordon]

Hi John-

The lawn/tractor battery is called "Cutting Edge". It's listed in the first row of the chart under "Standard/Flooded Wet".

I've taken a screenshot here of where it's at.



Here is a link to the battery. I have the U1 model.

Hi Branch, yes it did work. But I can't see the Lawn & Tractor battery listed on the chart.

John K.

[John_Koorn]

Thanks Branch. Note that 12.44v is the OCV, which is what the battery will bounce back up to after loading. So you need to load it down at the C20 rate to a specific voltage and see where it bounces back up to after you disconnect the load. Try 12.2v first and see what it bounces back up to. If it bounces back up to >12.44v then you can load it down further.

John K.

[Branch Gordon]

That's good info, thanks John! I will zero in on that voltage over my next couple cycles.

On another note, I watched DVD 33 over the weekend. I understand that the "forced charge" mode charges with current, and very fast...but I don't understand the benefit if you are heating up/damaging your batteries. Part of the whole appeal of the SG machine is that it rejuvenates batteries. Why would generator mode be desirable (other than shorter time)?

Thanks Branch. Note that 12.44v is the OCV, which is what the battery will bounce back up to after loading. So you need to load it down at the C20 rate to a specific voltage and see where it bounces back up to after you disconnect the load. Try 12.2v first and see what it bounces back up to. If it bounces back up to >12.44v then you can load it down further.

John K.

[min2oly]

Part of the whole appeal of the SG machine is that it rejuvenates batteries. Why would generator mode be desirable (other than shorter time)?

If you are using in combination w/ the cap dump, the battery does not see it as you describe. The battery still see's the high pulses from the cap...

[Branch Gordon]

Thank you min2oly. I understand that...but that's a different mode of operation. That is the pulsed mode that John describes on the DVD. I am inquiring specifically about mode #2, or forced current mode.

If you are using in combination w/ the cap dump, the battery does not see it as you describe. The battery still see's the high pulses from the cap...

[Branch Gordon]

I'm not sure what is going wrong with my batteries. Here is what I did:

I bought 2 brand new Napa lawn/tractor batteries, then charged them both up with my standard charger. I then used the CBAIII to discharge them down to 12V at .50 amps.

They lasted right around 14AH, so I adjusted the discharge rate to .70 amps, and ran another discharge curve. The next curve was drastically worse than the first. I have attached a photo. The 2nd curve stops, and restarts at the beginning of the chart, as I restarted it at bedtime so that it would stop at 12.2V (per our earlier discussion).

Link to photo

Any ideas what is going wrong here?

[Dave Wing]

It could be a few reasons.


1).70 amps is a heavier load than .5 amps so it will lead to less runtime at load.
2)Your conventional charger is detremental to your batteries.
3)Those batteries are junk, as John bedini does state exide to be the worst type of battery right out of the box. They could be deteriating every cycle.
4)Your conventional charger is not charging the battery to a high enough level to get the amp hours out of the battery.




Earlier I made a suggestion about getting bigger better batteries. If you are going to keep your SG on the small scale while experimenting, then perhaps these two 20 amp our deep cycle aircraft batteries below would be better.
The Concorde CB-25 Series, or the Gill G-25 battery.


For more info check out this link... http://www.aircraftspruce.ca


I would also recommend that you strictly charge the batteries with the SG or the two amp charger you can get from Energenx, Tesla chargers, Teslagenx and or my eBay store. That way you will keep your batteries in top shape at all times and will not suffer these problems you are finding. You already know that conventional charging causes harm to any lead acid battery so why continue and use that type of charging system?


I know the aircraft batteries are expensive if one was to buy new, but you may be able to source some discarded ones from your local airport for $5- $20.00 each or even for free. All you will have to do is rejuvenate them to bring them back to life, which would be easy with the 2 amp charger from John Bedini's offers. This may not be well known... However every aircraft battery has to pass a timed C-1 discharge load test with at least 70 percent capacity to be deemed airworthy. So if the battery fails this test it is discarded... Often times these batteries can easily be brought back in as little as three charge and discharge cycles to 110 percent capacity or more. You can have excellent batteries for next to nothing, if you can find them.


Hope this helps you...


Dave Wing

[Branch Gordon]

It's very disappointing to hear that John B has said that about these Exide batteries. I asked Tom C to recommend a great battery to use, and even double-checked again to see what kind of battery John was using, and was told to buy these Exide batteries. So I'm getting conflicting information here.

Yes, .70 amps will discharge in a shorter time...but if these are 13-14 AH batteries...I should get that out of them (unless I discharge at 4 amps or something). If I discharge at .25 amps, yeah the time it takes to discharge will increase, but I should get around the same AH out of the battery...maybe less since that's not near the C20 rate.

I think I'm going to go with your suggestion to buy a charger from Teslagenx. I used to have one from r-charge but it stopped working last year....and I loved it.

I am also going to check into the airport batteries too, as it just makes more since to use deep-cycle batteries for this kind of work rather than automotive batteries that aren't designed for slow, long discharges.

Tom C, can you comment on the reference to John B saying Exide batteries are crap? Dave, where have you seen John post/say this?

Thank you for your help and comments guys! I am making headway here...slowly but surely.

It could be a few reasons.


1).70 amps is a heavier load than .5 amps so it will lead to less runtime at load.
2)Your conventional charger is detremental to your batteries.
3)Those batteries are junk, as John bedini does state exide to be the worst type of battery right out of the box. They could be deteriating every cycle.
4)Your conventional charger is not charging the battery to a high enough level to get the amp hours out of the battery.




Earlier I made a suggestion about getting bigger better batteries earlier. If you are going to keep your SG on the small scale while experimenting, then perhaps these two 20 amp our deep cycle aircraft batteries below would be better.
The Concorde CB-25 Series, or the Gill G-25 battery.


For more info check out this link... http://www.aircraftspruce.ca


I would also recommend that you strictly charge the batteries with the SG or the two amp charger you can get from Energenx, Tesla chargers, Teslagenx and or my eBay store. That way you will keep your batteries in top shape at all times and will not suffer these problems you are finding. You already know that conventional charging causes harm to any lead acid battery so why continue and use that type of charging system?


I know the aircraft batteries are expensive if one was to buy new, but you may be able to source some discarded ones from your local airport for $5- $20.00 each or even for free. All you will have to do is rejuvenate them to bring them back to life, which would be easy with the 2 amp charger from John Bedini's offers. This may not be well known... However every aircraft battery has to pass a timed C-1 discharge load test with at least 70% pass grade to be deemed airworthy. So if the battery fails this test it is discarded... Often times these batteries can easily be brought back in as little as three charge and discharge cycles to 110% capacity or more. You can have excellent batteries for next to nothing, if you can find them.


Hope this helps you...


Dave Wing

[Branch Gordon]

I am also seeing a reference to John stating his preference of Interstate batteries over the Exide brand in this doc, under the "Notes on batteries" section: http://freenrg.info/Bedini/SSG_STARTERS_GUIDE-Two.pdf

[Dave Wing]

Here is the link.... It is the last post, at the bottom of the page.



http://www.keelynet.com/bedmot/advmotor.htm

[Branch Gordon]

Thank you for posting. This WAS back in 2001 however...manufacturing processes could have changed since then. But I'm a big fan of doing exactly what JB says to do, so...

I am buying a 2A12 regardless...

Here is the link.... It is the last post, at the bottom of the page.



http://www.keelynet.com/bedmot/advmotor.htm