Bedini energizer from beginner's Handbook not running

[mildred593]

Hi,

I'm new here and I came because after replicating the SG Motor, I can't get the wheel to keep running, everything else seems to work well. It's just the weel that doesn't keep running.

Some description of what I built :

- 24 magnets (ceramic, 40x20x10mm, Y35, 2.5kg pull) on a bicycle wheel
- A coil as instructed, with 8x40 meters long wire (1x0.5mm and 7x0.8mm diameter) wound as instructed
- the circuit with 7 MJL21194-G transistors, and the other parts as instructed

I checked that the neon lamps were working as expected, and when I plug in the run battery, the neon lamps lit up for an instant. If I start turning the wheel, when a magnet passes in front of the coil, all the neon lamps lit up. If I hook the charge battery, the neon lamps don't lit up any more.

Do you have an idea of what could go wrong? All the 7 wires in the coil are being triggered because the neon lamps lit up. How come the magnets are not attracted by that?

Thank you,

Mildred

[mildred593]

Image without charge battery:

[Brodie Gwilliam]

do you have metal core inside coil??

[John_Koorn]

Hi Mildred and welcome,

There's a few things wrong with your build:
1. Your coil is too long, it should be wound onto a spool similar to this: http://teslagenx.com/parts/tx-spools...category=parts
2. You need to remove the metal fasteners that are holding your frame together and your coil down. They are affecting the magnetic field around the coil - won't stop it from sustaining rotation, but will affect your results.
3. Never, ever run your SG without the charge battery connected. You will damage the transistors. The SG is designed to run with a charge battery connected (not as a Christmas light show ). The neons are only there to limit the damage to the transistors if you accidentally disconnect the charge battery or your charge battery is very sulfated. They should never be used to test if the SG is working or not.
4. You didn't say, but if you didn't know the core of the coil needs to be filled with 1.6mm Lincoln R60 copper coated welding rods (http://teslagenx.com/parts/tx-r60.html?category=parts)

John K.

[mildred593]

Thank you for the advices. I think however that the reason the wheel is not sustaining the rotation is elsewhere. Also, I didn't forget the welding rods. Here are the things I noticed:

- without the run battery, the wheel when started takes 20s to slow down from 150 rpm to 60rpm
- with the run battery, the wheel takes 50s to slow down the same

I deduced that the circuit was working. It was just not powerful enough. I then tried to use two run batteries in series to make up 24V, and the wheel is now sustaining the rotation, success ! I'm now charging a battery. I also looked at the waveform using an oscilloscope, and it matches the rpm I measure on the wheel.

But, I'd still like to understand what is wrong. I think that the magnets and the coil are not matched correctly. There are a few things on the coil part:

- metal fasteners : how much ill effect does that have?
- coil too long : what is the ideal spool length / inner diameter ?
- inner diameter mismatch : I'm using a PVC pipe 30mm diameter.
note: the bottom of the coil is a ring of grey plastic, it's not metallic

There is also another possibility, the magnets are not appropriate. In the shop I get my magnets, I couldn't find the exact reference described in the e-book. I'm using Y35 ceramic, 40x20x10mm, Y35, 2.5kg pull instead of C8 1x2x.5in (=25x50x13mm).

Especially, I get to choose Y35 grade, not C8. According to this table, Y35 is stronger. Could that be a problem? I thought that a slightly smaller magnet but more powerful would be equivalent.

What do you think?

Thank you,

[Tom C]

1- if you have run your transistors for any length of time you have damaged the junction at the very least.\
2- the coil acts as an electromagnet, longer coil=fewer turns on top of each other = weaker electromagnet
3- the magnet must completely cover the rod core... completely the cvore is what creates the induced current in the trigger winding when the magnet is passing the core. so with a smaller magnet and a longer core= hard to make it run
4- base resistance will be off for a 24 volt system at 470 ohms


anytime someone says I built it just like the book "except" this or that, then they will have problems, as you have found out. you need to listen to John K and rewind the coil and get it running on 12 volts. if you ran it for 20 seconds or more with the charge battery removed your transistors are compromised. Tom C

[mildred593]

anytime someone says I built it just like the book "except" this or that, then they will have problems, as you have found out. you need to listen to John K and rewind the coil and get it running on 12 volts. if you ran it for 20 seconds or more with the charge battery removed your transistors are compromised. Tom C

Thank you for the precisions. I think I'll need to re-make my coil then, it makes sense. But do you have an idea of what height it should have (the link don't specify the spools' dimensions)? Also, what is the inner diameter? Or perhaps I should aim at a fat coil as much as possible.

Also, you said my transistors are likely damaged. How do I tell? I didn't run the wheel very long without the charging battery, but I let it run quite longer under 24V. Could the 24V have damaged the transistors?

I agree that I need to be as close to the original as possible, but it's not always possible to write down everything or find every part exactly as specified. It helps knowing why doing things a certain way to avoid repeating mistakes. For instance, I now know I should not aim at having a very large coil core because of the size of my magnets. In any case, I'm grateful for the support I can find here.

Thank you,

Mildred

[mildred593]

anytime someone says I built it just like the book "except" this or that, then they will have problems, as you have found out. you need to listen to John K and rewind the coil and get it running on 12 volts. if you ran it for 20 seconds or more with the charge battery removed your transistors are compromised. Tom C

Thank you for the precisions. I think I'll need to re-make my coil then, it makes sense. But do you have an idea of what height it should have (the link don't specify the spools' dimensions)? Also, what is the inner diameter? Or perhaps I should aim at a fat coil as much as possible.

Also, you said my transistors are likely damaged. How do I tell? I didn't run the wheel very long without the charging battery, but I let it run quite longer under 24V. Could the 24V have damaged the transistors?

I agree that I need to be as close to the original as possible, but it's not always possible to write down everything or find every part exactly as specified. It helps knowing why doing things a certain way to avoid repeating mistakes. For instance, I now know I should not aim at having a very large coil core because of the size of my magnets. In any case, I'm grateful for the support I can find here.

Thank you,

Mildred

[Tom C]

Mildred,

the SG beginner book put out by Aaron and Peter gives you exact specs on how to build. with that being said the coil has a 3/4 inch core, and is approx. 4 inches long. the only way to tell is to pull them from the system and use a multimeter to test them. if the junction is damaged it could be partially open or fully open, or it could be mostly shut at al times. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REW2lF0sb74

Tom C