Multi Coil theory question

[zzguy123]

thanks JOHN K I;LL wrap up some slaves
IT 's good to be back i was under the weather for 2 month
zzguy

[lost_in_samoa]

Thank all of you for responding. I appreciate it.

[Gary Hammond]

Hi John,

Hi Guy,

It should trigger fine with the #26, the #23 will actually be worse.

Good to see you here

John K.

I'm a little confused here. Tom C. advised using an AGW #18 or #19 trigger winding with a 150' quadfilar #18 coil. And you are advising a #26 or #23 size.

Wasn't John B.'s 10 coiler wound with a #18 trigger wire?

I'm getting ready to wind a new #18 quadfilar to replace the #23/#26 coil I ghot from Rick, and need to know the recommended size for the trigger winding.

Thanks,

[alfinip2000]

Gary,
JB 10 coiler is 4 fillar 18 awg 150', the trigger is 5 fillar.. i've built 23awg 100' 8 fillar litzing, like on the rick 10 coiler, it has poor performance.. it take looong time to charge. i suggest you stick on the JB spec... TIA
Alfin

[Gary Hammond]

Hi Alfin,

Gary,
JB 10 coiler is 4 fillar 18 awg 150', the trigger is 5 fillar.. i've built 23awg 100' 8 fillar litzing, like on the rick 10 coiler, it has poor performance.. it take looong time to charge. i suggest you stick on the JB spec... TIA
Alfin

Thanks for the reply, but it doesn't totally answer my question.

I intend to wind a single coil for my SSG, litzing together four AWG#18 power wires and one AWG#(?) trigger wire. I mis-spoke by calling it a quadfilar .......It will actually be a five-filar.

My confusion comes from Tom C. recommending an AWG#18 or #19 trigger, and John K. recommending an AWG#26 (best) or AWG #23 (not as good as the AWG #26).

So, ............ I'm trying to decide between using AWG #18, AWG #19, AWG # 23, or AWG #26 for the trigger wire size to litz together with the four AWG #18 power wires to make a single coil using four transistors with my bike wheel. Does the size of the trigger winding, in relation to the power winding, really matter?

[John_Koorn]

Gary, sorry if I confused you but Guy was asking if his existing trigger wire would work or if he had to wind another coil. You're asking what to use for a new coil, two different things.

You have to understand what the trigger wire is used for. It's used to turn on the transistor/s. What do you need to turn on the transistor? Look at the data sheet for the transistor. It needs a certain amount of voltage and current between the base and the emitter (in the mode we are using it).

So how do we generate the voltage and current? We use the magnet on the rotor to pass by the coil and generate it. What is generated depends on how strong the magnets is, how fast it is traveling, how far it is away from the coil, how many turns of trigger wire and how thick the trigger wire is. It also depends on how much resistance we have between the trigger coil wire and the base of the transistor.

If you add more slave coils and hence more transistors you are going to need more energy to turn them all on. What I should've asked Guy is what his existing base resistance is. If it is fairly high (e.g. 500 ohms) he has a large window to operate in and the existing trigger wire should be fine. But if he is operating at a low base resistance (e.g 10 ohms) it's likely that he'll have to change the trigger winding.

Now I need to make a correction. I told Guy that #23 would be worse when in actual fact it will be better. Why? Because a thicker wire will generate more current but less voltage than a thinner wire (e.g. #26). Since we usually run out of base current before we run out of voltage, a slightly thicker wire is needed.

But if you are winding a new 5 filar coil, we recommend a #19 wire for the trigger and #18 wire for the power windings. This combination will give a good balance to switch on the transistors but the base resistance will be a little lower than if you were to use a thinner trigger winding.

At the end of the day it's all about the geometry of the system you're building. For example on the 10 coiler kit Rick had #23 wire on all the coils. As more coils were added the machine was harder to trigger so you had to give the rotor a decent spin to generate enough current to fire the transistors, and this was with neo magnets. So the geometry was not right where it should've been.

On the 30 coiler, when Josh finished wiring up all the coils we could not get it to trigger at all. We had to parallel some of the trigger windings (4 from memory) to get the machine to trigger properly, even then it was hard to tune. That's why everybody saw the Darlington trigger arrangement on the machine at the 2011 conference. But there are a lot of losses when you do this.

Anyway, I hope this helps you understand the trigger wire a bit more.

John K.

[Gary Hammond]

Hi John,

Thanks for the reply! That's pretty much what I had figured on my own, but needed some reassurance before I started litzing wires together.

I have full spools of #18, #20, and #23 on hand, but no #19. And I may add more slave coils later on. So would the #20 or the #18 be the better choice to use now so I can just add slave coils later? I would assume the #18 to be the better choice?

[zzguy123]

TRIGGR SIZE -LENGTH-NO. OF TRANSISTORS

i have a 4 coil 4 filler at 125 ft, -18 -26trigger at 125 ft. -16 mag ona 28 in rotor[spin time 22 min]
[master is a 5 filler 4 run at 125 -18//one -trigger-26 at 125

i want to add 4 more slaves of 18 -at 125 ft. making it a 32 transistor
WILL THE TRIGGER BE ENOUGH TO FIRE ALL 32 TRANSISTORS?

[BASE NOW IS 23ohm ea. trane branch is 47ohm final 100ohm 5 watt [this varries]
the lenght and size of trigger effect the base restance how ?

SHOULD I wrap a new master with a thicker trigger say a 23#
zzguy

so JOHN K I SHOULD use a 23# trigger to fire all 32 transistor
i all ready have it wraped a 18 #power-23 trigger and a18# 26 i'll run each for a 10 runs
THE BEST WAY TO ANSWER IS TO DO IT!!
ZZGUY

[John_Koorn]

Hi John,

Thanks for the reply! That's pretty much what I had figured on my own, but needed some reassurance before I started litzing wires together.

I have full spools of #18, #20, and #23 on hand, but no #19. And I may add more slave coils later on. So would the #20 or the #18 be the better choice to use now so I can just add slave coils later? I would assume the #18 to be the better choice?

Hi Gary. Yes, I would go with the #18 wire.

John K.