My Mode 3 - In action

[EMP]

Hats off to you for tackling the arduino Bob! I bought one for the very same reason....The cap dump!!! I have fried more components trying to get a reliable cap dump circuit working over the last 6 months and then I heard about these wonderful micro controllers. It took me a while to get the hang of programming it but there's no looking back now. Cap dump, frequency meter, back popper, oscillator driver, battery swapper...It's all possible now.

it's funny that you mentioned the radiant energy released when a switch closes. I'm not 100% sure but when my cap discharges, I'm seeing what looks like a radiant spike extending downwards on the scope for about 4 volts. In other words my cap discharges at 30 volts down to 23 volts for under 1 ms then jumps back up to 27 volts after that 1 ms and ramps back up to 30 volts from there. I didn't see this with my other dumping setups. Maybe I wasn't driving the mosfet gate high enough?

I've only had the setup working for a few weeks or so and I've dumped caps from 750uf at an insane rate to .4F with this thing and man what a difference. When I dumped the .4F cap the noise was somthing to behold. usually a cap dump sounds like a clock tick but when the energy hit the batteries, it sounded more like a loud clock TOCK. It scared the hell out of me and I immediatly shut it down.I thought the batteries were going to explode.I don't recomend working with these monster caps unless you know exactly what you are doing. I don't ...so for now I'll just stay alive, put them aside and work with the little guys.

The thing I find most usefull about using the arduino cap dump and it's frequency meter is you can play the "what if" game. I'm using it to evaluate the different components of the oscillator by keeping the input current constant and noting the frequency of the cap dump. Then you can try different diodes, coils, cores, caps, transistors...etc and immediatly see if your change is good or bad by an increase or decrease in cap dump frequency. It's amazing what affects the sg oscillator. Just touching certain wires or hooking meters or scope probes will change the dump frequency.

A friendly suggestion for you Bob is rather than using a time based cap dump maybe use a voltage based dump. I'm using a zener diode to set the max cap voltage (an input to the arduino through an opto) and code the output to dump when the arduino sees the input. so far it seems to be very stable and repeatable but best of all....no smoke. The reason I say this is i don't know about you but I have a drawerfull of caps that have been blazed by way more voltage than they are rated for simply because of my time based cap dumps either failing or I started the system with the wrong timing. The voltage based dump always dumps at the same voltage no matter what size cap you use and you can choose when to deactivate the output in the code to dump at a fraction of a volt or all the way down to battery voltage.

I have to ask you Bob where you got that wonderful software that graphs the battery charging curve I saw in your video?

Very impressive setup Bob.

Emp

[BobZilla]

Yea I thought about running a system as you suggest, a true comparator. I know it can be done with Arduino and I may try that out down the road. The way I am doing it has advantages too though. If you really look closely at what I am doing with what I have termed "dancing" you will see that this results in multiple voltages per cycle. Basically you have the big dump and then several trailing dumps at mixed times, a little bit longer or shorter from the previous. I do this intentionally. With a comparator you would have a same state dump each time, unless you coded a second sub-cycle within your loop. As you have said SO much is possible with the programming.

You are absolutely right about little things changing, as you said add a meter here or touch a wire there. In fact I get much better results when I am not running any meters on the system. Of course for these videos I have to put them in or there is nothing too see ;-) ,, but it is best not to have any meters. I know my machine very well and I can tune it pretty much by ear now. For example when in generator mode the best thing is to get it to the best RPM you can and then release just a little resistance. What happens is the RPM goes down a little but you can hear the coil buzzing a bit. You only want to adjust it slightly in that direction, too much just wastes energy but if you do it right you get much more output. It also throws an AC wave toward the primary, not much but it is there and it can help the primary from running down quite so fast.

I generally like original mode 1 better but this thread is focused mostly on mode 3 which is gen mode with cap dumping so that is what I am showing.

The software comes with the meter you see. It is a Radio shack digital meter, they are about $80. Well worth it for people like us who play with meters all the time. If you get one just be careful about programing your Arduino and running the meter at the same time. I have found that they start to have a problem. I think they try to use the same memory block. I started using yet another little laptop I have for programing the Arduino.

Good to hear from you. It's nice to see someone else tinkering along the same lines as me. ---Bob

[min2oly]

Now I get it
- Thanks

https://files.secureserver.net/0swaxIKnzM6zZWhttps://files.secureserver.net/0sn6GrW3lCW2pz

Here is another video so you can see it in action.

https://files.secureserver.net/0sq3iS0e5LrwVt


It is too early to say really if this is of great benefit but I am happy that I am able to produce the effect at will. I think what I may do is compare some runs like this and then lower my cap dump down to about 35V, just under where the spikes appear to see what effect it has on charging, and the primary. I have to believe that inducing these 400v spikes contributes to the gains but more testing to come.

SO many ways to tune these circuits! ------Bob

[BobZilla]

You bet...

I tweaked the process a bit more after this was posted but you get the main idea.

The part about the 40v and 400v,, it is true but I did not continue using that in the more advanced dancing. In that other vid you can see what I was using at the time, basically a larger dump with trailing dance pulses, then a small dump with less trailing, and a few more same way, then back to a larger one. I did find that by changing amplitudes it seems to shake things up a bit better than just the same repetition. Sort of a combination of the code I posted above and the other I showed.

Anyway it was not the final setup, I had shared this to get people thinking and that other vid was a simple code that could be understood what I was doing. Once you understand the principal you can make much more elaborate timing code.

[min2oly]

Hi Bob,
reading this
made me think of you and this thread.
Cheers,
Patrick A.

You bet...

I tweaked the process a bit more after this was posted but you get the main idea.

The part about the 40v and 400v,, it is true but I did not continue using that in the more advanced dancing. In that other vid you can see what I was using at the time, basically a larger dump with trailing dance pulses, then a small dump with less trailing, and a few more same way, then back to a larger one. I did find that by changing amplitudes it seems to shake things up a bit better than just the same repetition. Sort of a combination of the code I posted above and the other I showed.

Anyway it was not the final setup, I had shared this to get people thinking and that other vid was a simple code that could be understood what I was doing. Once you understand the principal you can make much more elaborate timing code.

[BobZilla]

Sounds interesting, I might need to read that a few more times to understand what is being said though.

I don't want to sound mysterious or coy but not everything I have learned gets posted. I generally will post fundamental aspects and leave the rest for someone to play with if they wish. There are many ways to expand on the "cap dancing" method I described but the basic idea is what I presented.

I tell you what that reminds me off in a way,, the EARLY work that Mr. Bearden put out in reference to Mr. Bedini's methods. Especially the idea of fast switching and separating the ION flow and the Electron flow into separate open paths. You can charge and run a load at the same time with proper switching. Sometimes we get lucky and hit a sub harmonic. Part of what I was doing in some of my suggestions with varying your pulse rather than the same thing over and over was with that in mind, if your really lucky you may hit the proper frequency and tickle sub harmonics of it too.

[min2oly]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]2741[/ATTACH]https://files.secureserver.net/0s5hQtZsNYxa5F

Thanks----Bob

Hi Bob,
I have much respect for your work as well. I'ld love to replicate and scope out this cap dump event. I've never used an arduino. Would you have any suggestions on were to start? My preference would be to match your build as closely as possible.


Here is a vid, the purpose of the vid was NOT to show the pre-spike but it does:

[BobZilla]

Hi Patrick,

I would be more than happy to help you with anything you may have questions on. The stuff in this thread is old and probably half ripped apart or in a junk drawer, geez I have tons of that kind of thing going on around here.

I still build all sorts of aurduino controlled stuff though and I probably know quite a bit more now than I did back when I was posting this. Do not be intimidated by the idea of having to program the MC, for cap dumps or SS switching it is super simple. There are a lot of things you can do beyond switching with them but just start off with using it as a switch. All your really doing is defining an on time and an off time and if you want to make the dipole dancing you just make more off and on commands. The whole thing plays in a loop and that's it, trust me it's really easy.

It depends on if your cap dumping or driving a SS as to how you want to time things. For example lets say we want to cap dump. To be on the safe side we would set the ON period pretty long and the off period very short and then start adjusting from what we observe. The reason is if we are feeding our cap too fast we don't want it to overfill so a long on time will pass it through to the battery, as we shorten up that on time the cap will fill faster because it is stacking up the voltage for longer then the on period dumps that. Conversely the off period being short does the same thing in a way, the point is you want to start out conservative and find the rate that your cap charges and then tune to it. You will quickly get a feel for it. Now if your using it to switch a SS setup then a long off and a really short on is how to start. This is so that with the really short on time you do not over saturate the coil, then you can walk up your on time and or decrease the off time to tune in.

To give you an idea of what I look for in a coil to run a SS on I will generally want a coil that if connected full on can pull about 5 or so amps. I don't want to run at 5A but by testing it that way I know that it will offer the right resistance and have a decent capacitance. The truth is though that with the MC you can tune for just about any coil you just have to dial it in.

Depending on if you want to make a small'ish unit or a large one you are going to need a few things. you can either use FETS or SSR's. I have used both and they both work well but I am partial to the SSR's these days. I use 40A crydom d1's for large setups, meaning my charge target will be between 60-200AH banks. For smaller stuff you can get cheap SSR's that are rated at 4A or use a FET. Just make sure whatever device you choose to use that it's trigger side is low voltage (usually it will be 3-30V) the MC can only put out 5v@20ma so make sure the device will respond to that. I prefer to put a diode on my cap dumps so that the battery cannot feed back towards the cap, not completely necessary but I like it that way and it prevents sparks when you hook up to a battery, without that the cap sucks off the battery and you get a spark.

I am going to shoot some video for you to show some of the things I have made with the MC and how they work. I think I am better at explaining stuff when I'm looking at it and talking about it.

For cheap MC I order them from this link below. It takes awhile for them to arrive from china but I have never recieved a dud from them and the price is right.

Link:
https://www.fasttech.com/products/1001700

Here are the cheap SSR I have been using. Again this would be for small stuff, mostly for driving a SS coil and not so much for dumping but if small enough it would work.
Link:

http://www.ebay.com/p/Input-3-32v-DC-Output-4a-200v-DC-4-Pin-PCB-Solid-State-Relay-B3/1242205384

The crydom 40A SSR are very expensive and you can find them on mouser or digi-key but sometimes you can find listings for salvage deals.

Anyway I am going to make that video for you so be sure to check back---Bob

[Brian McNece]

Hi Patrick,

I would be more than happy to help you with anything you may have questions on. The stuff in this thread is old and probably half ripped apart or in a junk drawer, geez I have tons of that kind of thing going on around here.

I still build all sorts of aurduino controlled stuff though and I probably know quite a bit more now than I did back when I was posting this. Do not be intimidated by the idea of having to program the MC, for cap dumps or SS switching it is super simple. There are a lot of things you can do beyond switching with them but just start off with using it as a switch. All your really doing is defining an on time and an off time and if you want to make the dipole dancing you just make more off and on commands. The whole thing plays in a loop and that's it, trust me it's really easy.

It depends on if your cap dumping or driving a SS as to how you want to time things. For example lets say we want to cap dump. To be on the safe side we would set the ON period pretty long and the off period very short and then start adjusting from what we observe. The reason is if we are feeding our cap too fast we don't want it to overfill so a long on time will pass it through to the battery, as we shorten up that on time the cap will fill faster because it is stacking up the voltage for longer then the on period dumps that. Conversely the off period being short does the same thing in a way, the point is you want to start out conservative and find the rate that your cap charges and then tune to it. You will quickly get a feel for it. Now if your using it to switch a SS setup then a long off and a really short on is how to start. This is so that with the really short on time you do not over saturate the coil, then you can walk up your on time and or decrease the off time to tune in.

To give you an idea of what I look for in a coil to run a SS on I will generally want a coil that if connected full on can pull about 5 or so amps. I don't want to run at 5A but by testing it that way I know that it will offer the right resistance and have a decent capacitance. The truth is though that with the MC you can tune for just about any coil you just have to dial it in.

Depending on if you want to make a small'ish unit or a large one you are going to need a few things. you can either use FETS or SSR's. I have used both and they both work well but I am partial to the SSR's these days. I use 40A crydom d1's for large setups, meaning my charge target will be between 60-200AH banks. For smaller stuff you can get cheap SSR's that are rated at 4A or use a FET. Just make sure whatever device you choose to use that it's trigger side is low voltage (usually it will be 3-30V) the MC can only put out 5v@20ma so make sure the device will respond to that. I prefer to put a diode on my cap dumps so that the battery cannot feed back towards the cap, not completely necessary but I like it that way and it prevents sparks when you hook up to a battery, without that the cap sucks off the battery and you get a spark.

I am going to shoot some video for you to show some of the things I have made with the MC and how they work. I think I am better at explaining stuff when I'm looking at it and talking about it.

For cheap MC I order them from this link below. It takes awhile for them to arrive from china but I have never recieved a dud from them and the price is right.

Link:
https://www.fasttech.com/products/1001700

Here are the cheap SSR I have been using. Again this would be for small stuff, mostly for driving a SS coil and not so much for dumping but if small enough it would work.
Link:

http://www.ebay.com/p/Input-3-32v-DC-Output-4a-200v-DC-4-Pin-PCB-Solid-State-Relay-B3/1242205384

The crydom 40A SSR are very expensive and you can find them on mouser or digi-key but sometimes you can find listings for salvage deals.

Anyway I am going to make that video for you so be sure to check back---Bob

Bob
I appreciate your willingness to help out so much, i am looking forward to this video, i also have interest in the MC.

[BobZilla]

Hi Brian,
Glad to help if you get anything from it. I have shot a video here to start off with. In this I am going over the parts on my cap dumper and showing the basics of how to program the MC. This alone is enough for you guys to build one yourselves if you wanted to but I think I will make more videos. It's just to much to try and cover in one session so if you guys like this let me know and I can elaborate on more settings.

This first video is necessary just to explain how the machine is setup.

https://1drv.ms/v/s!AmzmftzD-V0miF7YL2aqJ_HtvbKr

[min2oly]

Hi Brian,
Glad to help if you get anything from it. I have shot a video here to start off with. In this I am going over the parts on my cap dumper and showing the basics of how to program the MC. This alone is enough for you guys to build one yourselves if you wanted to but I think I will make more videos. It's just to much to try and cover in one session so if you guys like this let me know and I can elaborate on more settings.

This first video is necessary just to explain how the machine is setup.

https://1drv.ms/v/s!AmzmftzD-V0miF7YL2aqJ_HtvbKr

Hi Bob,
Nice! Thanks for the Vid good to know you can get the effect with the SSR. I have more consistency when I use that as apposed to trying to get the FET's to turn off at these speeds. Arduino on the way, maybe next week...
I'm going to add this to my pre-spike setup C watts up :-)
KR - Patrick

[BobZilla]

Hi Bob,
Nice! Thanks for the Vid good to know you can get the effect with the SSR. I have more consistency when I use that as apposed to trying to get the FET's to turn off at these speeds. Arduino on the way, maybe next week...
I'm going to add this to my pre-spike setup C watts up :-)
KR - Patrick

Just have time for a quick comment, I'm on lunch. You probably know it already but if you do maybe it helps for others to hear,, for FETS to switch fast I recommend a 10kOhm resistor placed between the gate and the source pins. It helps to quickly drain the capacitance out of the gate junction by bleeding it off to ground which gets you that fast off.

I will shoot another video on the cap dumper to show a few different speeds and such, maybe tonight or at least next few days.

[Brian McNece]

Hi Brian,
Glad to help if you get anything from it. I have shot a video here to start off with. In this I am going over the parts on my cap dumper and showing the basics of how to program the MC. This alone is enough for you guys to build one yourselves if you wanted to but I think I will make more videos. It's just to much to try and cover in one session so if you guys like this let me know and I can elaborate on more settings.

This first video is necessary just to explain how the machine is setup.

https://1drv.ms/v/s!AmzmftzD-V0miF7YL2aqJ_HtvbKr

Bob
Thank you for shooting the video, very interesting, i am looking forward to more explanation on this, i think i will definitely be ordering an arduino very soon, i was checking out the site you mentioned in an earlier post, seems very reasonable priced.

[BobZilla]

Alright so I am back with another part 2 video. In this one I walk the machine through a few short charge/discharge cycles. In each charge I took one of the caps out of the dumpers circuit so we are looking at increasing the voltage and lowering the capacitance with each step as a result.

Here are the charts:




The video is another sort of long one but it shows a little bit of each cycle as it's happening and has my ramblings. ---Bob

https://1drv.ms/v/s!AmzmftzD-V0miF8q406cus6LiO2w

[Michael Luton]

Thank you for the time and effort you put into making this video (and all your videos). What you are doing and your results were very clear to me. The only thing is, I do not consider your comments as rambling as I found them very helpful and direct. It will take some time for my mind to chew on everything I saw and how to apply to my own pet projects.