Comparator with 10 coiler

[Howard Wetsman]

Hello all,
I have a reworked r-charge 10 coiler that is able to charge up a 215AH bank from a 215AH bank. I got the large comparator made by JB and have been told that the output of the machine would likely burn up the comparator. So I've tried running the output from one coil only through the comparator, but wonder if any of you have done that?

Those who have used the comparator know that there's a post for the output from the collector diode and the positive of the charge battery to attach to. That is clear enough. There are two other posts. One for the negative of the charge battery, clear enough. The third is to connect to the common connection between primary positive and charge negative on the energizer. The interesting thing for me is that the energizer is running off a 215AH bank and charging another one. So that common connection on the energizer is between those two banks. I have no place where the 25AH battery being charged by the comparator connects to primary. So currently I have that post on the comparator connected to the common buss on the board for that coil. The 25AH batter is not fully charging and I'm pretty sure that's because of how I have it hooked up.

Anyway, if anyone has tried this and has a suggestion or method I'd appreciate hearing about it. If I can make this work, I envision running all the coils though comparators to separate batteries, which I think would solve the last few little synchronization problems I have.
thanks
h

[Howard Wetsman]

Here's a crude drawing of what I have currently with coils labeled 1 through 5 and assume the other 5 are like 1 through 4. Coil 5 outputs to the comparator. I'm pretty sure this is wrong. Any ideas are welcome.
thanks
h

[John_Koorn]

Hi Howard,

When I had a friend's r-charge 10-coiler I had no issues running the large comparator on all 10 coils. These were 10 coils of #18, pulling about 5A @12V. In fact the results were very good. The only thing I had to do was run a fan attached to the heat-sink as the FETs would warm up.

I couldn't quite make out your diagram, but I think you have it hooked up right. Just to recap - the charge positive from the 10-coiler and the charge battery positive go to the same post. The charge negative from the 10-coiler (which is also primary positive) goes to the negative input of the comparator and the negative output of the comparator goes to charge battery negative.

Remember, the function of the comparator is to charge the caps from the output of the 10-coiler and then dump the caps to the charge battery via the negative - so the FETs are switching the negative of the caps to charge battery negative.

Hope his helps.

John K.

[Howard Wetsman]

Thanks John,
I guess I'll try it as I'm only pulling 4A. The thing I was a little concerned about was that the comparator charge negative input and output aren't the from the same charge battery, but if I change to run the whole output from the ten coiler it won't matter. My COP calculations are from .35 to .45 and I'm hoping the comparator will boost those.
Thanks for the advice.
h

[Howard Wetsman]

Well all, I just hooked up the 10 coiler to the big comparator. All collectors are feeding to a common buss that goes to the comparator and, at the comparator, is attached to a wire that goes to the charge positive. The primary negative goes to the ground buss on the energizer and the primary positive goes to the buss that used to be primary positive/charge negative. Instead there is a wire leading from this buss to the negative input of the comparator and the negative output goes to charge negative. so the only commonality between primary pos and charge negative is through the comparator. This is how the diagram looks, if I'm interpreting it correctly.
As soon as I turned it on I noticed that there was no pulse, just a solid green light from the comparator. I tried turning the pot on it counterclockwise and still no pulse. Then i noticed the smell of something and looked around and saw the neons lit up like christmas trees. I took a quick amp reading and saw a 1.8A draw and shut off the machine. My usual draw was around 4A. Also in that thirty to 45 seconds I was running the machine there was only 0.01 v increase in the charge battery, much slower than usual. Just as I was shutting off the switch I looked at the LED on the comparator and it was off. It may have burned out and that was the source of the smell. No high temps on the comparator that I could find.
I've checked all my connections and all seems right. 0.1ohm or less resistances.
Any thoughts are welcome. I'm afraid to try again for fear of burning out the comparator if I already haven't done it.
h

[John_Koorn]

Howard,

Can you post a drawing of how you have it all hooked up?

I'm not sure I understood from your post how you've done it.

John K.

[gandyman]

You never must hook up a 10 coiler or SG on enything else then a battery, you blow up the neon or melt them and you destroy your trannies...
I do not understand that you question is answert positive.......

I dont know if you can blow up the comparator, just connect it to 12v battery and check if he is stil working.....

IF your comparator is broken you can ask John Kroon to repaair it, I suppose

[John_Koorn]

You never must hook up a 10 coiler or SG on enything else then a battery, you blow up the neon or melt them and you destroy your trannies...
I do not understand that you question is answert positive.......

I dont know if you can blow up the comparator, just connect it to 12v battery and check if he is stil working.....

IF your comparator is broken you can ask John Kroon to repaair it, I suppose

No, that is not correct gandyman. As I posted I have successfully run the large comparator on a modified 10 coiler running at 24v. No problems at all except you have to mount a fan on the heatsink.

You can't connect the comparator to a 12v battery to test it, it is designed to run on the output of a Bedini SG.

John K.

[gandyman]

indeed JK I was in a hurry and see now my answer was not complete.....

Let me say it different, wen I adjust my 10 coiler for battery's and I replace the battery's with a comperator or capacitor the neon's flash like hell and I probally fried my trannies.

You need to adjust the trigger side if you replace a batt for a capacitor, becouse you go from fase #1 to fase #3 in the SG.
So I hope the TS has done that else he smell resitors and trannies...

I melt a lot neons and fried a lot MJL to know what I say....

[John_Koorn]

gandyman, yes I see what you are saying.

My recommendation when experimenting with cap pulsers on a large machine such as a 10 coiler would be to take it slow and start with just the master coil.

The neons will flash when the capacitor can't take anymore charge, so you have to make sure the cap pulser (or comparator) is set to discharge the cap before it fills up.

Once you have it working and tuned properly with one coil you can add additional coils one at a time.

John K.

[forelle]

Hi John Koorn
This is offtopic but i want you to ask if you have experience with this Patent.
http://www.google.co.in/patents/US20020097013
Thank you

[John_Koorn]

Hi forelle, I've read the patent many times but have not built the exact model depicted in the patent.

It's not totally off-topic from this thread as it's very similar to the Bedini Monopole SG.

John K.

[gandyman]

gandyman, yes I see what you are saying.

My recommendation when experimenting with cap pulsers on a large machine such as a 10 coiler would be to take it slow and start with just the master coil.

The neons will flash when the capacitor can't take anymore charge, so you have to make sure the cap pulser (or comparator) is set to discharge the cap before it fills up.

Once you have it working and tuned properly with one coil you can add additional coils one at a time.

John K.

Indeed John

BTW @forelle, this patent has more to do with the mechanical layout, the electronic switch is the same as the window motor

[Tom C]

this is a great quote from the patent. remember the patent examiner or special master must agree with the text and drawings of the patent AND see a working model performing the functions outlined. in essence the patent examiner agrees with the text of tha patent and in this case the novel design of the functioning unit allowed JB to get a patent....




[0019] A problem relates to how back EMF energy can be obtained from a circuit's external environment for the specific task of reducing the back-drag EMF without the operator having to supply any input of that excess energy. In short, the ultimate challenge is to find a way to cause the system to: 1) become an open dissipative system, that is, a system receiving available excess energy from its environment, in other words, from an external source; and 2) use that available excess energy to reduce the drag-back EMF between stator and rotor poles as the rotor pole is leaving the stator pole. If this objective can be accomplished, the system will be removed from thermodynamic equilibrium. Instead, it will be converted to a system out-of-thermodynamic equilibrium. Such a system is not required to obey classical equilibrium thermodynamics.

this is a tacit admission from the patent office that an open system does not violate the stated laws, and wherever you get your added energy from is o.k.

Tom C

[Faraday88]

Hi forelle, I've read the patent many times but have not built the exact model depicted in the patent.

It's not totally off-topic from this thread as it's very similar to the Bedini Monopole SG.

John K.

Hi John,
Is this Cole-Switched version of the Bedini SG?
Rgds,
Faraday88.