Zero Force Motor Replication Project

[RS_]

never mind on what i wrote previously, i understand now, and that is a new development, that square iron core between the rotor magnets, was not discussed at the conference...... Is it Iron, or Steel? As Square Iron Rod might be hard to find. Where Square Steel Rod is fairly easy too find..... and I guess the rod is 0.75" sq.

[Yaro1776]

ZFM Proto Progress and New ZFM Information

Hello to All,

Yesterday was a day of progress on several fronts with an unexpected surprise.

The ZFM Proto was massaged with a new front bearing and the entire assembly put back together with patient care paid to the overall alignment of the assembly.

First the motor was wired such that only one reed switch was firing (as suggested by min2oly from experiences of others on the Window Motor thread) and then fired up. The alignment tweaking allowed the motor to rotate on one set of reeds to about 120 rpm with the existing firing angle duration of about 60 degrees. Excellent!

The ZFM was then wired for both reeds and fired up with same 24 volts and timing - holy moly! The ZFM accelerated to over a 1000 rpm (estimated) and hummed along for about 5 minutes. Progress. A video of the new performance will be completed in the next day or so and hopefully the new laser tach will have arrived by then.

Great start to the morning and later in the day an unexpected email was received from Dr. Peter Lindemann informing me that he is working on compiling and writing a report ZFM Theory and Operation that is intended to give the definitive design information to end all the rampant speculation on the ZFM. This is to be published in the near future upon completion - no date on this as yet. Peter, at this time and understandably, is very busy with multiple responsibilities and requested that certain critical ZFM information be posted on this thread.

The first was a bombshell - the ZFM rotor has an iron core and below is the original JB design schematic


Furthermore, the critical Neo magnets are 0.750 inch diameter by 0.375 inches thick.

Back to the drawing board - yes, but the testing on this existing ZFM Proto will continue to establish performance baselines.

So, a big thank you is in order for Dr. Peter and his commitment to honor and preserve John Bedini's work and legacy.

Yaro

[min2oly]

Those circuits have capacitors on them, I see no capacitors on the pictures. They also show bridge rectifiers, the two components that are most likely diodes only have two legs, unless I am wrong, which I might be. They therefore cant be connected as shown in the diagrams, unless the transistors have diodes built in, that could be possible.

It might be easier to build your own control circuits, rather than trying to copy, it looks like a fairly standard single phase inverter circuit, if you use IGBT devices they are easier to trigger than NPN PNP transistor arangements and many come with diodes built in to protect them when used with motors. Bridge rectifier chips are also off the shelf components.

The arrangement of magnets on a motor can be done in many ways all producing different results, some practical some not, N-S-N-S, N-N-N-N, S-S-S-S, Edge on NS-NS-NS-NS-NS, the key thing is to provide a magnetic field of the correct polarity at the correct point in the rotation of the motor to produce a force to make it turn. To do that you need to know what polarity is passing by the end of your drive coil to apply the correct forces in the correct sequence. For N-S-N-S arrrangement you will need a single phase inverter style circuit to switch the polarity of the coil to drive the alternate magnets as shown in the cct diagrams above, with the N-N-N-N, S-S-S-S arrangements you may get away with just pulsing the coils at the right moment to flick the magnets as they pass. With the NS-NS-NS-NS-NS we are looking at edges and transients and it looks interesting to work out how it would work, possibly pulsing them will do the trick, but then a bridge circuit as in the single phase inverter cct would also do it.

The timing sequence is key with all the arrangements. None of them will self start, because there is nothing to energise the field, so they all will need a kick to get them moving. They then will run and if they are a little over unity then they might keep running.

The Magnetic fields may not immediately collapse when the magnet moves away from the coils, transient things happen in the real world, if you are into the idea of the ether then vortices in space will also still be moving and wont vanish straight away, the vortices may be following the movement of the rotor. The ether has inertia carries all known forces etc.

John always said so many FAIL because they do not replicate it, instead, they choose to make it THEIR way... good luck

[James McDonald]

Hi All --

Just to add to the information that was re-created from the pictures taken of the ZFM in July at the 2016 Energy Conference.
See the attached print diagrams of the schematic of the coils in the ZFM.

-- James

[Yaro1776]

Hi Patrick,

Great suggestion from you to use half of the circuit for tuning purposes. Posting the two circuit schematics is helpful to everyone that has an interest in the ZFM.

By the way, the motor will self start when power is applied.

Thanks,
Yaro

[min2oly]

I just want to zero in on this, many have commented before regarding window motor that it is a very good idea to focus in on the half bipolar switch like the one JB demonstrated in the video I posted with the blue wheel. Tuning is tricky enough with the "half" let alone the "full" bipolar. Below was drawn up for the full bipolar hall configuration, just cut it in half:


I'll also attach the half using trigger coil:


One can easily replace hall with reed. I also recomend watching JB's 3D printed video on the Zero Force to see how he gets two switches per magnet pass. This was an interesting function...

Hello all,

There have been several types of Zero Force motors demonstrated on this thread with differing coil and magnet arrangements - this does make it difficult for the new experimenters to discern what is what.


3) The Bipolar switch - standard unit described on this forum multiple times. This switch is triggered by the timing rotor and its purpose is to fire the main transistor pairs and to reverse the polarity of the coils. The coils are wired in series and connected to the output terminals of the Bipolar switch. The reed wires are connected to two small transistors to initiate firing and polarity change. I believe that this is the correct explanation.



All is good,
Yaro

[Yaro1776]

ZFM Proto Basic Specs

Hello all,

There have been several types of Zero Force motors demonstrated on this thread with differing coil and magnet arrangements - this does make it difficult for the new experimenters to discern what is what.

The ZFM Proto is nearly a direct replication of the motor demonstrated at the 2016 Energy Conference and explained by John B. The basic configuration is as follows:

1) Two toroidal coils wound with 280 to 300 ft of #20AWG mag wire each and are wound around a 90 degree segment of sched40 4"dia. plastic pipe - all of this can be viewed in the pics at the beginning of this thread. Essentially two 90 degree toroidal coils without an iron core opposing each other and separated by a 90 degree spaces. Resistance of each coil 2.80 - 3.00 ohms.

2) The motor's rotor is approximately 2 1/2" diameter with 4 Neo magnets (0.75"D x 0.25"T) facing out radially in a NSNS arrangement with a 90 degree separation through their centerlines. The specific gap requirement between the coils and Neo's is unknown, but one can assume 1/4"-3/8" as a starting point. The magnet thickness is an assumption - may be more or less, still to be determined.

The coil resistance and the magnetic orientation were confirmed at Bedini's shop by RS with JB's help. So this good... The wire size was estimated to be #20 by direct comparison to an SSG coil at the conference's Teslagenx table and ZFM demo side by side.

3) The Bipolar switch - standard unit described on this forum multiple times. This switch is triggered by the timing rotor and its purpose is to fire the main transistor pairs and to reverse the polarity of the coils. The coils are wired in series and connected to the output terminals of the Bipolar switch. The reed wires are connected to two small transistors to initiate firing and polarity change. I believe that this is the correct explanation.

4) The timing rotor can be any convenient diameter, such that the firing cycle duration and timing can be controlled. In this instance a 1 3/4" diameter was used for the timing rotor with opposing two side by side 0.25" drill holes. Small Neo magnets are used in this particular case (0.25"dia X 0.125"T). The reed switches in this particular proto are rated for 2.5 amps. The reed switches are located 90 degrees apart parallel to the shaft centerline and with the glass ends about 1/2" away from the OD of the timing wheel. Adjust from there to the firing point and duration by experimenting with the reed switch location and the number of timing rotor magnets

So truly the major variables that need to be resolved are listed above, while the timing and duration of the firing cycle are the major sticky points. The devil is in the details.

ZPDM illustrates the simplicity of the concept and demonstrates this with with several worthwhile videos earlier in this thread. There is another set of informative and well done demonstration videos by min2oly that it is recommended to view. Then there are the videos by John Bedini that fully demonstrate the ZFM in its various guises.

By the way - the starting torque of this ZFM Proto is not overwhelming at this point of development.

A work in progress here with forward steps and set backs, but all are good in developing an appreciation for this machine and its potential, and just maybe, a working model.

All is good,
Yaro

[ZPDM]

Alright as I started this thread, in the Mk II video I demonstrated a, just from holding it in my hand, maybe 1 lb CD sized rotor, rotating at 1,000 -1,100 RPMs from 90 milliwatts input (9 volts 10 milliamps). It was constructed based from the findings I documented in the previous three videos. I had planned to leave it there as I felt it demonstrated sufficiently some of the principles behind the ZFM to allow for others to replicate. To honor John I am setting a goal of completing by Christmas a Bedini ZFM that will rotate a 1 lb rotor at 1000 RPMs using 45 milliwatts of power. I don't suspect that will be a difficult bar to meet and have in the back of my mind a stretch goal of using 9 milliwatts for the same. It will again not use a bipolar commutator circuit, just one hall effect and one transistor, it will not use a timing wheel-just the magnets on the rotor, which is one area where I suspect optimization is possible, it will again be a CDs, superglue, balsawood, and skateboard bearing type of build, again improvement in that area would also likely have a noticeable effect. While it won't be a true replica of the ZFM machine John and Peter built and demonstrated if I do succeed in again halving the input power for the same work with the Mk III, maybe consider cutting me some slack that I might be onto something in trying to discern what John and Peter were engineering for. Yaro, I am sorry you didn't have greater success with your first build attempt, it also takes courage to post negative results (negative study bias I believe it is called), perhaps a timing problem with your machine, don't know. There was for me at least one entirely novel finding that I didn't understand prior to starting to try and replicate this machine, it is documented in one of the videos I posted I think I even said, this is the most important finding of the video or some such, as I said the other preliminary work recorded in the three videos leading up to the Mk II guided that build.

I don't enjoy the idea of possibly demonstrating a version better than the Mk II, but I opened this can of worms by starting the thread and now I feel I owe it John to be as open as I can about his ZFM. Besides, maybe I was just lucky with the Mk II and the things I think I am engineering for actually aren't the important ones, things do have a way of sometimes going kerfluey with experiments don't they? So it deserves to be confirmed a little more concretely, I'll certainly enjoy that part and if successful will try and answer people's questions, again the plan is to have something to report by the Holidays.

Paul

[John_Koorn]

Adding to the conversation

The main characteristic of the ZFM is that the rotor magnets pass along the length of the stator, they do not cut the lines of flux of the stator. Very important.

As Patrick highlighted, also very important, is the wave form - very little being generated into the stator by the passing magnets. It's definitely a motor, not a generator. And I believe it's because of this that there is no Lenz law to combat. The purpose of the magnets in the ZFM is only to sustain rotation.

The reason for the Bedini/Cole circuit being used is because of the triggering. The model Peter built used reed switches, the demonstration model John shows in the "blue rotor" video uses hall triggering. You cannot use a trigger wire on the ZFM - must be either reed or hall triggered.

John K.

[min2oly]

Do you think he was trying to show us a 3 magnet lenzless motor driving a 5 magnet lenzless generator?
A generator like he showed in the 1984 book?
If you have done the demo where John is inserting the iron tube into the laid down coil you would know why he states he really does not like to do it.
Why? Because it will shock the **** out of you at times (+_+)

Mike

**** had me laughing...
3 pole with 5 generator poles - interesting concept, kind of like the schoolboy motor...
Sadly no, one of the way's you know you have the ZFM configuration is by looking at the scope and you see very little in the way of potential from the coil. If you look in-between the spikes you see very minimal wave from the passing magnets.
KR - Patrick

[Mike Klimesh]

zero force motor/generator

John mentioned using only 3 poles and the wheel having 8 magnets...

Do you think he was trying to show us a 3 magnet lenzless motor driving a 5 magnet lenzless generator?
A generator like he showed in the 1984 book?
If you have done the demo where John is inserting the iron tube into the laid down coil you would know why he states he really does not like to do it.
Why? Because it will shock the **** out of you at times (+_+)

Mike

[min2oly]

I don't know if it is just me but that is someone showing a demo with a Tom Bearden video being played in the background.

That doesn't look like Tom Bearden demonstrating anything. Someone else is doing a demo with them wanting to quote Tom Bearden in a way that they believe directly applies to their demo.

That is just an SG circuit and is not the ZFM circuit.

Someone mentions the 3rd axis. If it is up and down like SG, that is the first, they lower it down so magnet sweeps across the poles which is the 2nd, so obviously the 3rd is rotating the laying down one 90 degrees so it cuts the coil in half across the bloch wall.

Still, it's not the ZFM.

Hi Aaron,
kind of thought it was understood that was not Tom Bearden and only a recording of him playing in the background. Thanks for pointing that out though for anyone who may have been confused. Yes, while that is not THE "ZFM motor" it is an attempt at the time (2011) to demonstrate a principle, whether on purpose or by accident, the ZFM employees.

The ZFM ckt is just a Window Motor ckt is just a switch, JB ran that first "Ball" Window Motor on an SSG ckt...

I remember back on the Yahoo Forums when John first posted his video with the blue wheel this and his Window Motor build have always stood out from the time more recently it's been other things...

I hope it does not sound like I'm claiming anything here - I'm not, there are just some things that seem to me as "a given"

I'm really missing John right now - sorry
KR - Patrick

[Faraday88]

I don't know if it is just me but that is someone showing a demo with a Tom Bearden video being played in the background.

That doesn't look like Tom Bearden demonstrating anything. Someone else is doing a demo with them wanting to quote Tom Bearden in a way that they believe directly applies to their demo.

That is just an SG circuit and is not the ZFM circuit.

Someone mentions the 3rd axis. If it is up and down like SG, that is the first, they lower it down so magnet sweeps across the poles which is the 2nd, so obviously the 3rd is rotating the laying down one 90 degrees so it cuts the coil in half across the bloch wall.

Still, it's not the ZFM.

Hi Aaron,
how come no one could guess that!!!!! it could be true ...I think it is from the DVD 1 where Tom speak about the EFTV concepts...yeah..
of course the 3 rd axis that was me who said that!! but stood by you saying it is not the ZFM anyway!!!
Rgds,
Faraday88.

[Aaron Murakami]

Question. Does the motor in this video represent the principle of the ZFM with a trigger coil? It starts out in the standard SSG configuration and then the coil is flipped horizontal.

DMann

I don't know if it is just me but that is someone showing a demo with a Tom Bearden video being played in the background.

That doesn't look like Tom Bearden demonstrating anything. Someone else is doing a demo with them wanting to quote Tom Bearden in a way that they believe directly applies to their demo.

That is just an SG circuit and is not the ZFM circuit.

Someone mentions the 3rd axis. If it is up and down like SG, that is the first, they lower it down so magnet sweeps across the poles which is the 2nd, so obviously the 3rd is rotating the laying down one 90 degrees so it cuts the coil in half across the bloch wall.

Still, it's not the ZFM.

[John_Koorn]

That would have been nice... John mentioned using only 3 poles and the wheel having 8 magnets... perhaps a miss-speak. It doesn't sound like that part was all that important to create the effect though.

From memory that rotor has all North out neo magnets. I did notice another timing wheel in the background, perhaps John tried a couple that he had on hand and the three pole timing wheel ran better.

I'm guessing the machine in the video was purely for demonstration purposes, just to show the effect.

John K.