Vitamin C therapy

[Tom C]

I wanted to post this link from a clinic on Vitamin C dosing. I am making no claims, I am not a doctor, I do know when I see results.

http://www.doctoryourself.com/RiordanIVC.pdf

Tom C

[bhairava]

any known method for extraction of vitamin C ? as far as i know, vitamin C shares the same receptors as sugars, and hence it's absorbtion is competitively inhibited by their presence. as such, it is best to be separated from any sugar when ingested (that's why most 'pills' suck - they have more sugar than vitamin C).

[Tom C]

pure ascorbic acid used for baking is almost pure vitamin C.


Tom C

[ZPDM]

Tom,

Back when I had a blog going I wrote a bit about vitamin C. For instance I had a four part series that just looked at reviewing the past years worth of research on vitamin C. I'll dig up an archived copy when I get a chance, but the mind boggling thing for me is that vitamin C appears to be almost universally beneficial. It is an anti-toxin, anti-viral, anti-bacterial, anti-cancer, anti-oxident. It is also incredibly non-toxic. About the only single possibly worrisome thing I saw in that one years reserach review was equivecol data that it may potentiate the endocrine disrupting effects of bisphenyls. Therapeutically, the major issue is dosage, where the really tremendous therapeutic effects can not be achieved with the oral dosage route (though the recent liposomal formulations may be a way around this). In any event. I posted this earlier on a different thread but while I am trying to dig out some of my previous blog posts here is a write-up on the history of vitamin C and the evidence for its use in cancer. Vitamin C - PDF.

[AMPPMEUPP]

The Optimization of Vitamin C.

I wanted to post this link from a clinic on Vitamin C dosing. I am making no claims, I am not a doctor, I do know when I see results.

http://www.doctoryourself.com/RiordanIVC.pdf

Tom C

Dr. Tom Levy is an expert on Vit C. He is a retired cardiologist and in this you Tube video from a talk he gave at the Riordan clinic he lays out what lyposomal vitamin C can do.

Very informative and the stuff really works for a host of ailments:

Optimization of Vitamin C and Antioxidant Therapy - YouTube

R.

[Jolias]

Simple to take the lab test for vitamin c means calcium if its level is better then ok otherwise must be take the c therapy like cal1000 in the tablet forum or injection forum respectively therefore this thing will enable to make the body more healthy.

[ZPDM]

Tom.

Give me a week or two and I will try and go through the past couple years research on vitamin C and see what I can synopsize. While this isn't an electronics topic I do think it is worth discussing. A similar thread related to vitamin D might also be worthwhile . In fact if you ask me, (though this not being my specialty I am vehemently unqualified) all of the major advances in internal medicine relate to a further understanding of either how elements or various micronutrients (vitamins) play a role in physiology. With a few exceptions (and irregardless of the research) it is quite neglected.

[ZPDM]

Tom C,

After my last post I owe you something on this. Let me preface this by saying 3-4 things. 1) In real estate the saying is location, location, location, with vitamin C it is dosage, dosage, dosage, did I say dosage, dosage, dosage, yes, dosage, dosage dosage. You might overdose with too much oral vitamin C but it might be easier just to drop a ton of it on your head. Too much taken orally leads to diarrhea. However, at the maximum tolerated oral dose, one is still an order of magnitude or more less than the amount most animals have in their blood stream when healthy. One can bypass this either through intravenous vitamin C or liposomal vitamin C. IV vitamin C is well known, liposomal C is so new I am now entirely certain what to say. There is a study showing liposomal C is absorbed at about 3x the rate of regular C. However the question is how well does it get into cells. There is a credentialed clinician that states he finds liposomal C superior to intravenous C in treating some diseases. Alright point 2, you will say I am just cherry picking studies. I did a search of Pubmed with "vitamin C" in the title of the article. I have omitted 95 percent of the articles. If you go back and do the same I challenge you to come up with the harmful studies. There are very many studies reporting things to the effect, to make something up of, "Vitamin C has no effect on alopecia in aborigines" there is next to nothing harmful. After having studied this a bit, the only thing I ever saw is it may potentiate the effects of bisphenyls in plastics. Alright points 3 and 4, I can't remember, but it does bring to mind a pet peeve of mine. When it is said something strengthens the immune system, what the hell does that mean? Specific, general immunity? If immunity is too much strengthened does that mean you now have an autoimmune disease? Vitamin D decreases the incidence of autoimmune diseases while upregulating an arm of immunity not taught twenty years ago, namely antibiotic peptides, a whole new arm to the immune system. If not detailed, for myself I find it best just to substitute "life force" for immunity to understand such great advertisement claims. This post is too long to start on the medical literature, and even when I do I may restrict myself to 3-6 months at a time not the whole past year. Having only looked at "vitamin C" not "ascorbic acid" or ascorbate and only in the title of the study I will just say I am not disappointed by the recent research

[Tom C]

intravenous iv of pure buffered ascorbic acid in doses above 350,000 milligrams per day can be safely used and it will cure most cancers too many testimonies to not believe it. add Vit D and some trace minerals and your off to the races Tom C

[ZPDM]

The peer reviewed published medical literature was searched through the online portal PubMed. A search term of Vitamin C was entered and this search was further confined to the term appearing in the study title and the study having been done between 1/1/2012 and the present. This search yielded 113 articles. The titles of a few of these articles sometimes accompanied by brief excerpts from the study abstract or personal comment are below. The hyperlinks to these articles are omitted so as not to trigger the board spam filter. My comments will be enclosed in /* */ brackets. The abstracts to these articles are easily obtainable while perhaps a quarter of them will also have free online access to the full text, for the others a trip to a medical library or medical library online subscription may be necessary. Without further ado, starting with the oldest articles first.

1) Subcellular basis of vitamin C protection against doxorubicin-induced changes in rat cardiomyocytes. /* comment, doxorubicin is a chemotherapeutic with a side effect of possibly damaging the heart */
Conclusion as stated in study abstract
2) A significant relationship between plasma vitamin C concentration and physical performance among ***anese elderly women. from abstract "... After adjusting for the confounding factors, the quartile plasma vitamin C level was significantly correlated with the subject's handgrip strength (p for trend = .0004) and ability to stand on one leg with eyes open (p for trend = .049).
CONCLUSIONS: In community-dwelling elderly women, the concentration of plasma vitamin C related well to their muscle strength and physical performance.
3) Vitamin C and fibre consumption from fruits and vegetables improves oxidative stress markers in healthy young adults.
4) Changes in markers of inflammation, antioxidant capacity and oxidative stress in smokers following consumption of milk, and milk supplemented with fruit and vegetable extracts and vitamin C. "Therefore, regular consumption of the supplemented milks may confer health benefits because of increased antioxidant potential or through mechanisms resulting from increased vitamin C or decreased uric acid concentrations."
5) Vitamin C prevents hyperoxia-mediated coronary vasoconstriction and impairment of myocardial function in healthy subjects. /* This study strikes me as notable but may require some background. The administration of high concentration oxygen to people with some acute or chronic illnesses can cause some unwanted changes in circulation. In this study 8 healthy volunteers were given supplemental oxygen. It was noted that coronary blood velocity then decreased 28 percent, coronary artery resistance increased 34 percent and left ventricle blood flow velocity decreased 11 percent. */ "These effects on flow and function were eliminated by the infusion of vitamin C, suggesting that these changes are mediated by vitamin C-quenchable substances acting on the coronary microcirculation."
6) Intravenous ascorbic acid (vitamin C) administration in myomectomy: a prospective, randomized, clinical trial. /* Myomectomy is a uterine surgery. This randomized trial took place in 102 patients in two groups. Group A received 2 grams vitamin C intravenously pre-operation. The conclusion doesn't really do it justice so I'll quote the results section.*/
... Ho hummm
7) Cytoprotective effect of vitamin C against gentamicin-induced acute kidney injury in rats. /* Gentamicin is an antibiotic that can cause kidney damage */ "Concomitant administration of gentamicin and vitamin C resulted in a significant reduction of morphological and functional kidney alterations."
8) Vitamin C attenuates the physiological and behavioural changes induced by long-term exposure to noise. "We conclude that vitamin C supplementation can attenuate or prevent the psychological and physiological damage induced by prolonged noise exposure in mice."
9) Ascorbate-dependent decrease of the mucosal immune inflammatory response to gliadin in coeliac disease patients. "Ascorbate decreases the mucosal inflammatory response to gluten in an intestinal biopsy culture model, so it might have a role in future supplementary therapy in CD."
10) Vitamin C in sepsis. " Therefore, it may be possible to improve microvascular function in sepsis by using intravenous vitamin C as an adjunct therapy."
11) Vitamin C transport and its role in the central nervous system.
12) The hepatoprotective potential of Spirulina and vitamin C supplemention in cisplatin toxicity. Cisplatin is a chemotherapeutic that can damage the liver. "The supplementation of Spirulina and vitamin C could effectively bring down the levels of these enzymes. Light microscopy also showed that cisplatin treatment induced liver injury and that histopathological abnormalities were prevented by Spirulina and vitamin C supplementation."
13) The effect of monosodium glutamate on the cerebellar cortex of male albino rats and the protective role of vitamin C (histological and immunohistochemical study). /* Never heard this one before. MSG is a very common food additive which can cause neuronal damage. See neurosurgeon Dr Russel Blaylock's research and writings for background */ "In conclusion, MSG has neurotoxic effect leading to degenerative changes in neurons and astrocytes in cerebellar cortex of albino rats and vitamin C supplementation could protect from these changes."
14) Effect of vitamin C depletion on UVR-B induced cataract in SMP30/GNL knockout mice. "In conclusion, VC depletion may increase the susceptibility to develop UVR-B induced cataracts in mice unable to endogenously produce VC."
15) Vitamin C for DNA damage prevention.
16) Combination of glucan, resveratrol and vitamin C demonstrates strong anti-tumor potential.
17) Effect of vitamin C deficiency during postnatal development on adult behavior: functional phenotype of Gulo(-/-) knockout mice. "The subnormal movement, combined with hypersensitivity to a dopamine agonist, point to developmental ascorbate deficiency causing long-term striatal dysfunction."
18) Melatonin and vitamin C ameliorate alcohol-induced oxidative stress and eNOS expression in rat kidney.
19) Intravenous vitamin C administration reduces fatigue in office workers: a double-blind randomized controlled trial. "Thus, intravenous vitamin C reduced fatigue at two hours, and the effect persisted for one day. There were no significant differences in adverse events between two groups. High dose intravenous vitamin C proved to be safe and effective against fatigue in this study."

I apologize, that was only six months worth of studies, will try to do a part two at some point for the most recent six months. Of course one might also expand the search to include ascorbate or ascorbic acid in the title and get more studies.

[Tom C]

The Journal of Orthomolecular Medicine

[ZPDM]

intravenous iv of pure buffered ascorbic acid in doses above 350,000 milligrams per day can be safely used and it will cure most cancers too many testimonies to not believe it. add Vit D and some trace minerals and your off to the races Tom C

350,000 milligrams! Good gravy man! I'm not sure even I would be comfortable with that sort of dose. I think the largest I saw Klenner use was 180,000 mg/day. This needs to be put in some perspective, however. At 180 grams we are talking about what about 1/5 pound of vitamin C, and not ingested mainlined right into the veins. Normal saline (a standard isotonic to blood intravenous drip) has about 9 grams NaCl per liter. So to give 180 grams of NaCl as normal saline would require 180/9, 20 liters of IV fluid in a 24 hour period or 5 and 1/4 gallons. That would be taxing to healthy kidneys and maybe problematic. I certainly wouldn't want to try and eat 1/5 pound of salt in a day. The point being vitamin C is probably less toxic than salt.

My previous emphasis was to get across the idea that you need to get into the 10s of grams range IV/day before the full medicinal effects of C are sometimes apparent. However, you will find a number of studies in the literature which demonstrate (whether from ignorance, bias or agenda I don't know) things along the lines of 250 mg vit C orally/day had no effect on common cold duration. While such a dose would likely be of some health value over years, if looking to employ vitamin C as a medicinal it is essentially a homeopathic dose.

I am fairly certain I have mentioned this to you earlier but if not, regarding dose I am very excited about, taken orally, liposmomal C both because of its increased GI absorption and its likely bypassing of the normal vitamin C channels when delivering its vitamin C to the interior of a cell.

[ZPDM]

The Journal of Orthomolecular Medicine

Thank you, I agree an excellent resource. Unless I'm mistaken I am a member there. I know I've corresponded with people involved with the journal. Curious they are not indexed as a peer reviewed journal isn't it? Hmmmm. I mean the idea of simply modifying the levels of vitamins, minerals and micronutrients which the body itself attempts to do in cases of stress or illness to restore health is so obvious and commonsensical what po$$ible reason could they're be for marginalizing such an approach? Hmmmm.

Still, when you delve into it the peer-reviewed literature is often surprisingly open, it just has no effect on medical practice. What is that word when medical practice is divorced from science. Financial superstition might suffice I suppose.

Look at what we saw from 6-8 months of research. Vitamin C in animal studies is shown to have protective effects against the toxicity of the chemotherapeutic agents doxirubicin and cisplatin and the antibiotic gentamicin. Also shown to mitigate the CNS toxicity of the food additive MSG. In more animal studies low levels are seen to be associated with development of cataracts and infusion of to blunt the toxicity of alcohol on the kidney. I'm likely skipping stuff even from my previous synopsis, but in three human studies we saw vitamin C effective in reducing fatigue, normalizing circulation parameters when people are given supplemental oxygen and the kicker, a randomized human trial showing 2 grams of C pre-op cut blood loss by 1/3 cut operation time by 1/3 and reduced hospital stay by 1/2 a day. That 1/2 cent worth of vitamin C would be so difficult to put in the pre-op bag of normal saline wouldn't it? This study goes along with an earlier human clinical trial which found 10 grams C pre-op cut operative mortality by (from memory) 47 percent. These peer-reviewed published clinical trials are what are supposed to guide medical practice. Sometimes they don't.

There were of course numerous studies I didn't make note of, most along the lines of (to make things up) "Vitamin C2 channel not dependent on Calmodulin dependent percaptase polymorphisms" or "vitamin C not effective in relapsing remitting multiple sclerosis" (though not toxic and didn't worsen the disease). There was one study which found liver abnormalities in a subset of rats given oral vitamin C who were "stressed". I should likely dig out the study, not just the abstract, but have done this enough now to for the time being skip that one. 1) it sits in a sea of studies finding vitamin C protective against a host of liver irritants, 2) it was a subset analysis, could go into detail, but will just say if you cut a deck enough times you will get two aces in a row 3) what does "stressed" mean and 4) rats make their own vitamin C endogenously (in their liver) as part of their metabolism, this C was given as an oral dose, you wouldn't think something like that would be overlooked but it wasn't mentioned in the abstract and I've sen enough to guess it was overlooked either from ignorance or agenda. If it becomes a debate I'll dig out the study, and go through it with a fine tooth comb and be prepared to say, if necessary, yes, there is one negative study in the face of dozens of positive studies, but mea culpa I left it out of the synopsis.

Was a little disappointed (though I took a peek at a search on "ascorbic acid" over the past year and found something) that there wasn't anything on vitamin C as an antiviral. It is a very powerful and broad spectrum anti-viral (there are none of these in the current medical armamentarium). It doesn't (I think?) strike me as an antioxidant effect, I have no idea how vitamin C might do this.

That's it, unless you'd like me to shut up I'll do part two of the past year's research in the relatively near future. Wouldn't mind going back and discussing Klenner's work at some point either.

Ciao,

Paul

[Tom C]

350,000 milligrams! Good gravy man! I'm not sure even I would be comfortable with that sort of dose. I think the largest I saw Klenner use was 180,000 mg/day. This needs to be put in some perspective, however. At 180 grams we are talking about what about 1/5 pound of vitamin C, and not ingested mainlined right into the veins. Normal saline (a standard isotonic to blood intravenous drip) has about 9 grams NaCl per liter. So to give 180 grams of NaCl as normal saline would require 180/9, 20 liters of IV fluid in a 24 hour period or 5 and 1/4 gallons. That would be taxing to healthy kidneys and maybe problematic. I certainly wouldn't want to try and eat 1/5 pound of salt in a day. The point being vitamin C is probably less toxic than salt.

My previous emphasis was to get across the idea that you need to get into the 10s of grams range IV/day before the full medicinal effects of C are sometimes apparent. However, you will find a number of studies in the literature which demonstrate (whether from ignorance, bias or agenda I don't know) things along the lines of 250 mg vit C orally/day had no effect on common cold duration. While such a dose would likely be of some health value over years, if looking to employ vitamin C as a medicinal it is essentially a homeopathic dose.

I am fairly certain I have mentioned this to you earlier but if not, regarding dose I am very excited about, taken orally, liposmomal C both because of its increased GI absorption and its likely bypassing of the normal vitamin C channels when delivering its vitamin C to the interior of a cell.

yes I saw the liposomal vitamin C info and did some research. right now it is fairly prohibitive cost wise compared to pure ascorbic acid. if there was a way to create the liposomal form at home I would do it. between vitamin C info and the Gerson therapy It is hard to imagine cancer having a chance in someones body. I take hi dose C as a normal part of my daily routine, in much higher doses than the RDA along with a whole range of other stuff. Tom C

[ZPDM]

yes I saw the liposomal vitamin C info and did some research. right now it is fairly prohibitive cost wise compared to pure ascorbic acid. if there was a way to create the liposomal form at home I would do it. between vitamin C info and the Gerson therapy It is hard to imagine cancer having a chance in someones body. I take hi dose C as a normal part of my daily routine, in much higher doses than the RDA along with a whole range of other stuff. Tom C

Please note that I do not recommend this at all, but for discussions sake I would say there are a few things on the internet on making liposomal C. Basically all you would need is pure ascorbic acid and some lecithin (soy lecithin is mentioned as easily available) you then need to greatly agitate the two. An ultrasonic jewelry cleaner is what people have used. The lecithin is a lipid bilayer, just like the cells of our body, after being agitated it will spontaneously reform into spheres and because of the agitation should have ascorbic acid inside the sphere. So theoretically then you have your drug and drug delivery vehicle. Not sure how you would know what you had made when finished and if you have good micelles or if they are in the proper size range but some people do claim success with "home brewing" liposomal C.

I take maybe half a gram of liposomal C every couple of days when I remember, looking solely at absorption that might be equal to about a gram of ascorbic acid a day. However, if Dr. Thomas Levy, MD JD is correct about how well the liposome is delivering vitamin C to the inside of the cell, i.e. better than intravenous C, then that 1/2 gram liposomal every other day may possibly be equivalent to 5-10 grams ascorbic acid by mouth/day.

A value I see in having some liposomal C on hand is just sort as a first aid kit. Judging from the literature, there are a number of instances, say one was exposed to some toxic fumes or had a bee sting or a touch of food poisoning where one might like a hefty dose of C, liposomal makes this possible.

To bottom line this. Clinically IV vitamin C is perhaps ten times more effective than oral C, both because oral C is not fully absorbed from the GI tract and there is a limit to how much the gut will absorb putting a limit on blood stream levels and because once inside the blood stream vitamin C may only enter the cell through two vitamin C specific channels. Lipsomal C bypasses the gut absorption problem as it is the liposome micelles that are absorbed and it bypasses the cell entry issue as the liposome fuses directly with the cell membrane. Levy claims liposomal C is ten times more effective than intravenous C, i.e. 100 times more effective than oral C. I find that astonishing and even a bit difficult to believe, however, if liposomal is clinically even as effective as intravenous it is amazing.

As an aside, did you see the video of the the gentleman from New Zealand who was dying from flu, they were actually going to pull the plug when his family convinced them to give 50 grams vit C IV/day and he suddenly started making a miraculous recovery. They almost needed a court order to continue the C, but he made a full recovery (with IV and later liposomal C) and if I recall the leukemia he was also diagnosed with at the time went into "spontaneous remission" shall we say.

60 Min NZ Living Proof? Man Cured By Vitamin C [Video]