My Mode 3 - In action

[BobZilla]

I have setup my monopole in a new configuration based on the information Mr. Bedini gave in Part 33 of the energy series and I wanted to share.

This is not a true Mode 3 because it is not using a comparator circuit however the results of what I am doing are pretty close. The difference is that my system is timed by a micro controller for which I can code the off period and the on period of the control signal which dumps the cap. The timing is completely adjustable.

The following test runs were done to emulate what Mr. Bedini showed in the video as closely as possible. I am charging the cap to 25v and dumping to the charge battery on the negative rail, positive is connected parallel from the cap to the battery. The monopole is running in generator mode, so we have what Mr. Bedini showed with the acceptation that my cap triggering is different.

The duty cycle is set as such (coded on micro controller)
1.5 seconds OFF
0.5 seconds ON (when on we are dumping the cap)

At the speed I am running the monopole this charges the cap to 25v and then dumps a 4A pulse and then it repeats.

I would estimate the primary draw is between 1A - -1.25A. It is hard to say because it jumps around on the meter. What is not shown in the video is the additional draw of the micro controller because it is hooked directly to the primary and not through the amp meter. It pulls around 40ma to power itself and provide the gate pulse to the Mosfets.

The charge battery is a typical Garden tractor type. This battery was brought back from the grave by a different machine but I mention it because this is not a new battery. It was given to me after years of service in a friends tractor until it would not start anymore and the battery would not charge for him ;-)



The load we are using is a 13.5v,,, 5Watt automotive interior lamp.

The capacitor is 60k uf in a single package. Notice the shape of this cap, tall skinny like a flash cap.

Here is a wide shot of the whole system on the bench.



The chart is showing five complete cycles done consecutively. Each stage is 1000 seconds which you can see at the bottom of the chart. That works out to be 16.66 min each.

I have marked each stage on the chart so you can understand what you are looking at.

“R” This is a rest period (1000 sec)
“L” This is a load period (1000 sec)
“R” This is a rest period (1000 sec)
“C” This is a charge period (1000 sec)

So that is a complete cycle of which we have five of them on the chart. The battery was pretty well charged to start with. This chart is to show pulling a load and charging back up then doing it again. It is not intended as a chart for looking at a full charge cycle from dead to charge. In fact I did not let these charges peak, it was based on the 1000 seconds per stage to keep everything even.



To get an idea of this thing running I have uploaded a short video.

https://files.secureserver.net/0sEJsTyOxjoENu

I would like to thank Tom, John, and Eric over at TeslagenX for the awesome products and services they provide and the forum moderation.

And most especially thank you Mr. Bedini for sharing your work with the rest of us! ----Bob

[D Rhodes]

So what happens when you make a 10 coiler like this? Got any plans for a big bank of batteries?

[BobZilla]

For now I am going to run this thing just like it is. I have mostly been playing with that garden battery since I made the cap dump for it. I use that battery and a tiny inverter to charge my phone and laptop on a daily basis.

Next thing to do with it is going to be to throw my larger batteries on it, I have some 100AH and 75AH deep cell AGMs to try charging on it. I tell you what, that wheel is much more powerful in this configuration than it was as a regular mode 1 machine. It would not really charge a large battery before the modifications. This is a pretty small machine after all, 8 inch wheel.

I'm not sure if this machine can handle it but you are asking what's next,, Tom has slave boards and I was thinking about adding that too it and a second cap dump. I really want to build a bigger machine but you know how it goes, one can never be happy with what they have. ----Bob

[BobZilla]

I wanted to follow up with an observation and a question if anyone wants to take a stab at it.

I have been playing around with different timing adjustments and I am not sure yet which may be better.

Shorter off times will result obviously in faster pulses but at a lower current. What I mean is in the previous example I had 1.5 seconds off, 0.5 on which resulted in about a 25v 4 amp pulse. On the micro controller this is 1500, 500..

If I adjust to 500 off, 50 on I can get many more pulses but of course they are at around 2 amps with the voltage only rising to about 20v. I wonder which is better, more pulses at a lower current or higher current at a slower rate? I will continue to experiment with it to find out for myself but I was wondering if anyone has opinions about the two approaches to pulsing.

I am thinking that the shorter pulses may be better but not sure just yet. What is observable right away is that the cap voltage stays in a higher state because of the short on time. Basically it wiggles between 20v and 16v very rapidly, with a longer off time it swings as in the video between 25v and 14v. It may be beneficial to keep the cap at a more constant pressure. I know that the dump voltage must at least be a few volts above the charge battery or it will not charge but I wonder where the optimum trade off is between time/current.

The primary draw smooths out much more with the short pulses, as if there is a steady load on it instead of swinging around so much. It seems to charge well either way but I am curious which would be best.

[Joster]

Great set up!

I'm not too sure but have also been wanting to know which is better. Maybe its a question of how long the run battery lasts if you where doing big pulses as opposed to many small pulses. 2A is pretty good though. I would also think that the bigger the battery the bigger the pulse required. All this I'm sure you know just wanted to toss in my 2 cents. Hopefully someone can shed some light.

One a side note would you be willing to post a brief schematic of your MOSFET dumping circuit. I'm working on building one very similar and I'm currently using it to time an SSR to dump into my Charge battery. However I'm quite sure the SSR is damping the peaks of my output pulses. I have some nice Power FETS but am having some trouble getting them to stay off. I can make a simple circuit and the work, even test it out with an Ohms meter but as soon as I put it in the circuit the MOSFET won't shut off.

Anyway it all takes time...

[BobZilla]

I did some experimental test runs with different timing too compare the results. Now obviously there are other variables at work here and this is only two runs so it is not enough to be conclusive but I think it does demonstrate a basic behavior.

First let me say that in these charts I have the machine running in regular mode 1 with cap dump. I wanted to compare this to the same runs under mode 3 but I have not had time to do the mode 3 runs yet.

So in the first run I have the machine drawing at just about 1A. I have the timing set to 250ms OFF/ 100ms ON. That resulted in about 16v cap voltage with 1A dump current very rapidly. I changed the discharge load up to a 10 watt lamp this time and loaded for 2000 seconds. The charge came back up in 5000 seconds ( it’s all in the chart)This configuration charged the battery very well.



The second test used the same load and rest/load times. On this run the timing was set to 1500ms OFF/ 100ms ON. This resulted in a cap voltage of about 25v and a 4A dump current. I wanted to keep the ON time at the same as previous for a good comparison of just the pulse frequency and not the amplitude.

This charge took longer and in general just does not look as good as the previous one. I think what is very telling is to notice the green section that floats above the blue. This is a quick voltage spike. It looks to me like it must be excess that is not being absorbed. I suspect that this will change with different batteries but what is optimal is to find the frequency to where you are not over doing it. (more like the first chart)

For this particular battery I think it is obvious that 1A pulses at a fast rate are absorbed much better than 4A at a slower rate. Look closely at those charts, especially the green section and hopefully you understand what I am saying.



Joster,
I will draw up the circuit and post it for you a little later. Keep in mind that I installed a switch on the monopole to go between mode 1 and mode 3, so I do not recommend powering the arduino directly from the primary. In mode 3 I was doing that just fine but I would not try it in mode 1. Just use a separate supply. I put a little 5ah 12volt on it for mine.

[BobZilla]

Here is the circuit Joster, excuse the crude drawing ;-)

Hope it helps!



And a close-up of the board although you cannot see the connections because they are on the underside.

[Joster]

thanks! that's a great help!

You are doing some awesome work. I will see if I can duplicate your findings and report back. May need a week or so but I will for sure.

[Joster]

also,

I wanted to know where you got that wicked cap! and if it's an actual photo flash. I have 4 6800uF photo flash caps that seem to be working ok.

Regarding the schematic. I assume that that's the drain connected to the negative of the charge battery and the source is connected to the negative of the cap. I wanted to ask what is the purpose of the diode? The way it is drawn seems to be backwards but I must be missing something. I will be able to graph the charging with my CBA 4 when I attempt to duplicate what you have found.

cheers

Joe

[BobZilla]

It is not a mistake, but I knew you would look at that and ask ;-)

Just try it out bro, you can use any mosfet on a breadboard with a small cap and a small diode. In fact when I was testing it out I used a breadboard, a 1N4007 and a small 1500uf cap, my testing fet was from radio shack, just a run of he mill mosfet..

I know it look backwards but everything I drew is how I meant it to be and how my circuit runs.

You and I are running similar systems and I think it wold be great to collaborate. I got that cap at mouser, go back to that "help with mosfet" post for the details on that. I don't think it is an actual flash cap but it is shaped as one. Those tall skinny's dump better but honestly any cap will work.

[BobZilla]

Greetings friends,

I have an interesting concept I am working with for cap-dumping and I wanted to share.

Before I get to the charts and video I want to explain what I am trying to accomplish and the theory behind it.

Mr. Bedini told a story of Mr. Tesla observing the radiant energy rushing in on the old DC power plant transmission lines. The condition for this was that the generators were already up and running with high voltage but the knife switch had not been thrown to start the distribution from the generator to the endpoints. Well we know that it doesn’t really come from the generator (thanks to Mr. Bearden) but that is not the point.

What is described is the condition where you have a voltage potential without current flow. The radiant flows in just before the current begins moving, when the distribution switch was thrown. It only lasts for a VERY short period of time that exists before the slower current can start to move behind the radiant.

With the very high voltages of those old power plant generators it was described that they could actually see the energy suck in towards the line and display massive arcs. We cannot see this behavior in our systems but it is there.

Now with that understanding I want to explain what my experimental cap dump method is doing. I started out playing with different timing loops for dumping the same as everyone else. I found what seemed to work the best and was pretty happy with my results. Then I started thinking about the heart of the matter, dipoles! This is where the magic happens both on the cap dumps and within the SG circuit all forms of radiant harvesting are one way or another tricking dipoles into giving up some energy.

My system is an attempt to maximize dipole contribution. I knew that each dump from the cap was producing a dipole event but could this be improved? YES, I think it can!

In my system think of the capacitor as the power plant, it is sitting there with a voltage potential greater than the charge battery, and for periods it is not moving current. The Mosfets take the place of the knife switch on the distribution lines. What I am doing is giving a charge period on the cap and dumping it with a somewhat short period, that is the first phase but there is more. I have it timed so that the cap does not give up all of its potential in that first dump. As it is dumping I switch it off, then on for a very short period, off again, on again, many times before the first phase repeats.

The idea is to create a charge with phase one and then distribute it by rapidly throwing the switch which creates many dipole events per single charge pump cycle. We have to raise the potential to charge but we do not have to release it all at once. I want to harvest as many dipoles as I can out of that initial charge on the cap.


It results in about a 2A pulse, and then many 1A or less pulses trailing the primary pulse very rapidly. I envision it like a tap dancer on the capacitor; he activates the dipole once with a hard step and then tickles it many more times lightly. Each time the circuit makes and breaks the dipole to allow more radiant to flow in (in theory).

Of course we have no meters for radiant to prove that this is working but from my understanding of Mr. Tesla’s observation I am creating a mini power plant (the cap) with an insanely fast switch operator (micro controlled Mosfets), on a much smaller scale.

In addition to the basic principal I am intentionally creating a time-shift in the “dance” pulses. Some are 65, 75, 85, 125. I do this with the idea that this energy has been said to be like a gas, or a liquid if it’s easier to think of that way. I am creating abnormal amplitude changes by manipulating the time.

Imagine if you could look at some ripples on water from a 2d side perspective. If they all came at exactly at the same time say 50/50, and you could only see a narrow view at the lowest point on the wave. This would always look the same amplitude and if you could only harvest that energy from that single perspective you may be missing the best potential at the top of the wave right? So by changing up the time on my “waves” I am creating a moving center point where I think it is more likely for varying degrees of energy to enter. To put it another way I do not want a perfect wave over and over, I am mixing it up to allow for a greater potential.

Here is the code I am using to make these dipole events happen. The cap dumper is driven by an Arduino micro controller. I have a 5AH supply battery running it which is isolated from the rest of the circuit. It draws only about 45ma to power the board and fire the Mosfet gates.

int mosfet = 4;
void setup() {
pinMode(mosfet, OUTPUT);}
void loop() {
digitalWrite(mosfet, LOW) ;
delay (600) ;
digitalWrite(mosfet, HIGH) ;
delay (65) ;
digitalWrite(mosfet, LOW) ;
delay (65) ;
digitalWrite(mosfet, HIGH) ;
delay (65) ;
digitalWrite(mosfet, LOW) ;
delay (75) ;
digitalWrite(mosfet, HIGH) ;
delay (65) ;
digitalWrite(mosfet, LOW) ;
delay (65) ;
digitalWrite(mosfet, HIGH) ;
delay (65) ;
digitalWrite(mosfet, LOW) ;
delay (85) ;
digitalWrite(mosfet, HIGH) ;
delay (65) ;
digitalWrite(mosfet, LOW) ;
delay (65) ;
digitalWrite(mosfet, HIGH) ;
delay (65) ;
digitalWrite(mosfet, LOW) ;
delay (125) ;
digitalWrite(mosfet, HIGH) ;
delay (65) ;
digitalWrite(mosfet, LOW) ;
delay (65) ;
digitalWrite(mosfet, HIGH) ;
delay (65) ;
digitalWrite(mosfet, LOW) ;
delay (175) ;
digitalWrite(mosfet, HIGH) ;
delay (65) ;
digitalWrite(mosfet, LOW) ;
delay (65) ;
digitalWrite(mosfet, HIGH) ;
delay (65) ;
digitalWrite(mosfet, LOW) ;
delay (75) ;
digitalWrite(mosfet, HIGH) ;
delay (65) ;
digitalWrite(mosfet, LOW) ;
delay (65) ;
digitalWrite(mosfet, HIGH) ;
delay (65) ;
digitalWrite(mosfet, LOW) ;
delay (85) ;
digitalWrite(mosfet, HIGH) ;
delay (65) ;
digitalWrite(mosfet, LOW) ;
delay (65) ;
digitalWrite(mosfet, HIGH) ;
delay (65) ;
digitalWrite(mosfet, LOW) ;
delay (125) ;
digitalWrite(mosfet, HIGH) ;
delay (65) ;
digitalWrite(mosfet, LOW) ;
delay (65) ;
digitalWrite(mosfet, HIGH) ;
delay (65) ;
digitalWrite(mosfet, LOW) ;
delay (175) ;
digitalWrite(mosfet, HIGH) ;
delay (65) ;
digitalWrite(mosfet, LOW) ;
delay (65) ;
digitalWrite(mosfet, HIGH) ;
delay (65) ;
}

One thing to note is that the shortest time in the system is 65ms. This is because the Mosfets can not switch properly if I try to go any shorter, they are fast but do have a limit.

I am still experimenting heavily with the proper timing and how many events to try and trigger but the basis of the theory is there.

The cap is being charged to 23v and falls back to about 18v before the cycle repeats. The primary draw is about 1.2A, it bounces around with the cap discharges so it is hard to say exactly. I also did this run on the fixed resistor instead of the pot which makes it draw harder at first but as the primary voltage drops so does the draw. I usually use the pot and make adjustments as the primary draws down.

The chart looks a little choppy on the curve because of the odd timings involved. The meter only samples once per second so we are catching it in the chart at different phases of the cycle.

Here is a chart of 17AH AGM, but it has been flooded. This is a salvaged battery that I have converted to a wet cell. I could have stopped the charge many hours before I did but I think this particular battery could still use some conditioning so I let it run a bit long. It is hard to see on the chart but the battery was dead to start, about 12.1v. I should have put a long rest period before starting but I forgot to do that. As the chart builds it shrinks up and it is hard to see the starting voltage.



And finally I have a video for those interested in seeing this in action. Look closely at the Amp meter and you will see the “dancing”. I am also showing the RPM and temp checks on the components. Note that this machine is running in generator mode as shown by Mr. Bedini in part 33 DVD. This system is tuned well and I have virtually no heat. I do not think I needed the heat sinks but they are already attached. The diode on the dump board gets a few degrees above the rest of the components but that is about it.

https://files.secureserver.net/0s5hQtZsNYxa5F

Thanks----Bob

[Nofear]

Hi Bob,
Good job, I like your setup.
I understand what you are doing, it's an interesting idea. One though comes to mind though, I remember in the intermediate monopole handbook Peter L was explaining that the capacitor similar to the one you're using can have the tendency to behave like an electret. Meaning that it's charge/discharge Voltage vs time response is a bit elastic for the lack of a better term. I am just guessing that for what you are trying to do may be a capacitor type with a more rigid discharge characteristic would be better suited for a machine gun style discharge.
Another thing come to mind, in all this you haven't indicated any measurable (or measured) benefit to the battery. Or may be you did and my eyes glaze over it...I haven's had my coffee yet.

I am kind of doing a similar thing....or not really I run a solid state energizer and I don't use capacitors, I like my radiant raw please. My testing is taking longer then expected. I will report back when it's all over.

Keep up the good work bob.

NoFear

[BobZilla]

Hi NoFear,

Thanks for the comments. For the capacitor, I have found this one to work very well actually. It has a super fast discharge because it is the tall skinny type which is actually what Peter recommends. I will have to go back and read that section of the book again to see if I am missing something.

I do not try all too hard to prove out gains because it is all questionable. Batteries do not always have their rated capacity, meters can lie, it is hard to accurately measure with great precision how much energy I am using or gaining. I try more to just share my ideas and experiments so that others can perhaps gain something from it.

For battery benefit I would say that the pulse action does help with breaking up sulphate, it is the difference between applying an even pressure and a knocking effect. With even pressure nothing gives but pulsing has a bit of a push/pull affect. If you were to push evenly on a shelf say with a house of cards on it nothing would happen, if you knocked on that shelf eventually a momentum would build up and knock them down, well anyway you get what I mean I hope. I imagine with larger pulses (4-7A) it would be more beneficial but that is not my main focus when running this way. The idea is to not only harvest radiant from the main machine but to also have a secondary effect across the capacitor. The only way to do that is to have very short pulses and a lot of them which does not lend itself to creating large pulses.

I am with you on the raw radiant! I have many systems for different jobs. The main reason I am fooling with the cap dumps is to charge primary's. Once you have a sustainable method for that than I too would charge my secondaries with good old raw mode one. You really see a benefit in the batteries over time from that.

[BobZilla]

Hi Mike,
Your computer is fine ;-)

I removed audio from the file to make it a little smaller file size. I figure the text in the post explains what you are seeing so other than the sound of some bearings you don't miss much.

I appreciate that you like the machine. It is not really as nice as it could have been. I made the wheel a long time ago and it is not perfectly balanced, some of the magnets are slightly crooked, minor issues but at the time i did not have experience enough to know that I should have been more careful. It does run nicely and it is tuned very well but mechanically it could have been better. That particular machine has been my basic model to swap stuff around and try things out. Now that I understand this stuff much better I am actually working on a new machine that will be more powerful and better balanced. It is going to have a 28inch wheel and 8 transistors. I have also purchased some ultra fast diodes and all 1 percent resistors. The diodes also have a lower voltage drop than what we normally work with. Tuning is going to be a little tricky but I have a pretty good understanding of the circuit. The transistors are coming from Teslagenx and have been matched by them.

Bob Boyce huh,, cool! I am a little familiar with his work. I have a friend who is into building hydrogen on demand systems and he mentions him often. My buddy and I have done some fun stuff driving his bubblers with my Bedini circuits ;-)

The arduino platform is very easy to work with. I have big ideas for the new machine. For example I think I will put a genny coil back popper on it and use the micro controller to cut the primary draw while it pops, then switch back on. That should give me longer run times. Anyway that will all be some future post. ----Bob

[BobZilla]

Ok guys I have a new curve ball to throw to you ;-)

After much testing and changing things around I have a little improvement too the setup.

I have been exploring this idea of triggering more dipole events on the cap, same idea as before but I have figured something out.

What I have done is make a new cap dump board with only one mosfet and I upgrade the diode to a fast switching 8 amp diode. I wanted cleaner switching and I figured the four mosfets on the other board were probably not triggering at the same time, same issue we have with matching transistors. I am getting a little heat now because it is only one mosfet but it is still not bad, about 20 degrees over the rest of the circuit components. That is not the thing I want to share but it is worth mentioning for anyone keeping track of how this system is setup.

What I want to share is that I have figured out how to get these dipole events to appear on the cap with repetition and they are producing 400v spikes. This is what I was trying for all along and now I can actually see it happening on my meter.

The key to what I am doing is first off I have to dump on at least 40v in the cap or the large spikes do not appear. The challenge with my system is that it is not strong enough to keep that large cap (60,000uf) in there and still dump with enough frequency to move the battery very well. I can hold it back for 6 seconds and get enough charge but dumping once per 6 seconds does not move the battery very well. As usual it is all a matter of tuning. I had to swap out to a smaller cap arrangement.

I have a 1000uf on it currently which charges up to about 45v in 250ms, then I dump for 250ms, then some “dance pulses” 55,65,35 and then it repeats. Because I am now working with such a small capacitance I had to decrease the amount of dance pulses. I can take this idea farther when I get my stronger machine built. This shows up on the Amp meter as about a 1A dump to the battery, not very much but it is happening nearly twice a second.

What I have observed for good cap dumping in general is that the dumps must happen with a certain speed or the battery will not move very well. It can change depending on the target battery but generally quicker seems better. You want to size your cap to be able to charge to whatever voltage you like BUT it must be able to do it fast enough. When I have a stronger machine I can double or triple the cap size and still keep the short charge time for the cap but for now I have to downsize to accommodate this method I am trying.

The key to what I am presenting in this update is that to get the really nice 400V spikes you need to dump on at least 40v. I tried dialing back the frequency with various caps and on every configuration I did not see these large spikes until I was going over 40v. I tried it with the 60k cap, could do it but only if I let the charge build for 6 seconds. I tried it with a 15k, again had to let it build for about 2.5 seconds. I see the best charging if I keep the dump cycle at one second or less so the only way to do it was to downsize the cap until I could achieve that cycle rate ( with this machine).

I had hopes of charging large batteries with this machine but I just don’t think it can accommodate. I can charge garden tractor batteries and small AGM’s no problem but my 75AH and 100AH are not going to do it on this machine. I mean I can get it to charge them but it takes way too long for my liking. I am fine with it though. I have a ton of small batteries and this machine is fine for them. It has been a great experimenting platform and now I want to scale up with what I am learning from it.


Here you see a chart of the cap voltage. It is dumping at 46v or so but the dipoles are contributing 400v, over and over! I need to do much more testing but this is what I have been looking for. I am pretty happy with this performance. Remember the chart only samples once per second so there are things happening that it does not always catch.


Again this is charting directly off the CAP to watch the dump cycle.

(The forum pictures hosting is not working so I am hosting these on my web storage. If you click the "download" button you will get a much better resolution than the preview on the link, same for video.)

https://files.secureserver.net/0swaxIKnzM6zZW


And here is the charge curve for the same period. The target battery is the same garden tractor one I used in the beginning of this post. It was not dead to start but not charged either. It was resting at about 12.52v The primary draw is just over 1A, maybe 1.10 – 1.18, again there is a little bouncing on the meter.

https://files.secureserver.net/0sn6GrW3lCW2pz

Here is another video so you can see it in action.

https://files.secureserver.net/0sq3iS0e5LrwVt


It is too early to say really if this is of great benefit but I am happy that I am able to produce the effect at will. I think what I may do is compare some runs like this and then lower my cap dump down to about 35V, just under where the spikes appear to see what effect it has on charging, and the primary. I have to believe that inducing these 400v spikes contributes to the gains but more testing to come.

SO many ways to tune these circuits! ------Bob