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  • #16
    Klenner, Vitamin C and Polio


    While I will try and get to the most recent vit C research soon I wanted to dive in real briefly to Klenner's work from the 40's. I don't think many people, physicians included as I well know, are aware of this information. I came into it shortly after I left FDA and started a medical blog which I thought was quite critical and skeptical of current practice. From this, a retired chemistry professor contacted me and to paraphrase (or perhaps this was all he said) said "Vitamin C cures everything 'google Klenner vitamin C'". So I took him up on it and that was maybe my first concrete data point that there is a large and deep rabbit hole.

    By way of background, not too long ago they didn't have to worry about swine flu and coronavirus, they had polio. A person-to-person transmissible virus which killed either through harm to the central nervous system or a flaccid paralysis which when severe enough prevented breathing. They didn't have respirators at that time so the "iron lung" was the supportive treatment. Polio cases for unclear reasons began spiking around 1910, it killed large numbers and maimed many more, president Franklin D. Roosevelt being one of the best known persons to be crippled by polio. FDR started the March of Dimes just before WW II to find a cure for polio. The Sabin and Salk vaccines from the early 1950s are generally credited with making polio a rare disease, though some would argue improved sanitation may have played a significant role. Be that as it may something else happened between the start of the March of Dimes and introduction of the polio vaccine, namely polio was cured, definitively, conventionally and reported through the appropriate channels.

    Fred Klenner was a general practitioner from North Carolina who began experimenting with high dose vitamin C as a treatment for a number of diseases. In July 1949 he reported in the peer reviewed Southern Medicine and Surgery Journal that he had cured 60 consecutive cases of polio in children in a row. Dr. Klenner: C as Polio Cure (1949). In these children his initial treatment was 1000 to 2000 mg vit C intramuscular or intravenous every 2-4 hours, the dose possibly being decreased by the patient's clinical response. In his words, "All patients were clinically well after 72 hours". Three patients subsequently relapsed and responded to further vitamin C treatment. He cured every single patient of (still-at least conventionally-) incurable polio, within five days!

    One would like to say, well this research was just overlooked, but how? This was in the midst of a terrifying epidemic, a Presidential initiative to cure the disease and 60 cures in a row were reported in the medical literature. To top it off he also made sure to present his findings in person to the American Medical Association. Didn't make a dime's worth of difference.

    Klenner's paper from 1949 Dr. Klenner: C as Polio Cure (1949) is well worth a look for health conscious individuals.
    Last edited by ZPDM; 05-17-2013, 08:54 PM.


    • #17
      Accidental find shows Vitamin C kills tuberculosis

      Originally posted by Tom C View Post
      intravenous iv of pure buffered ascorbic acid in doses above 350,000 milligrams per day can be safely used and it will cure most cancers too many testimonies to not believe it. add Vit D and some trace minerals and your off to the races Tom C

      Accidental find shows Vitamin C kills tuberculosis

      Agence France-Presse
      12:06 am | Wednesday, May 22nd, 2013

      0 New 0

      AFP file photo

      PARIS — Scientists said Tuesday they had managed to kill lab-grown tuberculosis (TB) bacteria with good old Vitamin C — an “unexpected” discovery they hope will lead to better, cheaper drugs.

      A team from Albert Einstein College of Medicine in New York made the accidental find while researching how TB bacteria become resistant to the TB drug isoniazid.

      The researchers added isoniazid and a “reducing agent” known as cysteine to the TB in a test tube, expecting the bacteria to develop drug resistance.

      Instead, the team “ended up killing off the culture”, according to the study’s senior author William Jacobs, who said the result was “totally unexpected.”

      Reducing agents chemically reduce other substances.

      The team then replaced the cysteine in the experiment with another reducing agent — Vitamin C.

      It, too, killed the bacteria.

      “I was in disbelief,” said Jacobs of the outcome published in the journal Nature Communications.

      “Even more surprisingly… when we left out the TB drug isoniazid and just had Vitamin C alone, we discovered that Vitamin C kills tuberculosis.”

      The team next tested the vitamin on drug resistant strains of TB, with the same outcome.

      In the lab tests, the bacteria never developed resistance to Vitamin C — “almost like the dream drug”, Jacobs said in a video released by the college.

      He stressed the effect had only been demonstrated in a test tube so far, and “we don’t know if it will work in humans,” or which dose might be useful.

      “But in fact before this study we wouldn’t have even thought about trying this study in humans.”

      In March, disease experts warned of a “very real” risk of an untreatable TB strain emerging as more and more people develop drug resistance.

      In 2011, there were believed to be some 12 million TB cases in total — 630,000 of them of the multi-drug resistant (MDR) variety which does not respond to the most potent drugs — isoniazid and rifampin.

      Extensively drug resistant (XDR) TB, does not respond to an even wider range of drugs.

      TB was declared a global health emergency by the World Health Organization (WHO) 20 years ago, but remains a leading cause of death by an infectious disease despite a 41-percent drop in the death rate from 1990 to 2011.

      In 2011, 8.7 million people fell ill with TB and 1.4 million died, said the WHO.

      Over 95 percent of TB deaths occur in low- and middle-income countries, and it is a leading killer of people with HIV.

      An airborne disease of the lungs, tuberculosis is usually treatable with a six-month course of antibiotics.

      Resistance to TB drugs develops when treatment fails to kill the bacterium that causes it — either because the patient fails to follow their prescribed dosages or the drug doesn’t work.

      It can also be contracted through rare forms of the disease that are directly transmissible from person to person.

      MDR TB in the United States can cost as much as $250,000 (200,000 euros) per patient to treat.

      XDR TB requires about two years of treatment with even more expensive drugs that cause side-effects and offer no guarantee of a cure.

      The authors of the new study urged further research into the potential uses of Vitamin C in TB treatment, stressing it was “inexpensive, widely available and very safe to use.”

      “This would be a great study to consider because we have strains of tuberculosis that we don’t have drugs for, and I know in the laboratory that we can kill those strains with Vitamin C,” said Jacobs.


      • #18

        They are shocked, yes shocked! Now I could understand that reaction maybe the day after it was found. Sure even if tuberculosis is your research topic that you are paid to be expert in, one can't know everything. But given the effect of vitamin C and a couple days one might take a glance at the literature. There are one or two hundred studies documenting the same, oh so unexpected, finding. When was this first seen, well we can go back to 1933, "THE RELATION OF VITAMIN C DEFICIENCY TO INTESTINAL TUBERCULOSIS IN THE GUINEA PIG." "Thirty-seven of these were maintained on a diet partially deficient in vitamin C; twenty-six developed ulcerative intestinal tuberculosis. 3. In the remaining thirty-five animals whose diet was supplemented by an adequate amount of vitamin C only two developed tuberculous ulcers in the intestines. ... In our opinion, an adequate supply of vitamin C usually protects the guinea pig against ulcerative intestinal tuberculosis.

        How about findings similar to those of the researchers. (Koch's bacillus is TB)
        1950 "[Bactericidal action for Koch's bacilli of massive doses of vitamin C; comparison of its action on a certain number of other microbes]."
        1950 [Alleged modifications in man to the bactericidal power of blood serum and of urine due to the utilization of massive doses of vitamin C; bactericidal power for Koch's bacilli on one hand, for a certain number of other bacteria on the other hand].
        1950 [Bactericidal effect in vitro and in vivo of vitamin C on Koch's bacilli].
        1952 Antibiotic action of vitamin C on Koch's bacillus].
        1952 [The necessity of vitamin C overload in tuberculosis].
        1954 [Effect of vitamin C on the development of the Koch bacillus].
        1955 [Further observations on the effects of vitamin C on the growth of Koch bacillus culture].
        1955 [Further study of the effect of vitamin C on the development of Koch bacilli in culture].
        1961 [The bacteriocidal and bacteriostatic action in vitro of large doses of vitamin C on Koch bacilli].

        There are others. In fact there was one from just the past six months showing it inhibited growth of mycobacterium avium complex. (TB in birds though also seen in AIDS patients). I will take the position, which may well be correct that the researchers were familiar with the literature and were just trying to gently reintroduce the finding to polite conversation. However, to call it unexpected is either ignorant or offensive. It was also already given to hundreds of patients as an oral dose, generally with a modest though sometimes equivocal benefit. From what we now know of bypassing the limits imposed by gut absorption on vitamin C blood levels with intravenous vitamin C and the results in other bacterial and viral illnesses seen with high blood levels of vitamin C one can at least extrapolate to how vitamin C might treat tuberculosis with sufficient dosage. I am not a paid expert in TB, though at least I glanced at the literature about what I was talking on, and TB is a mean, mean, nasty bug that can live in the white blood cells sent to kill it, all that said, my guess would be sufficient IV C is likely as good, probably considerably better, than the current front line three drug combination. It is also far, far less toxic, (there is a reason they check liver enzymes on people being treated for TB). It would also cost pennies per day.

        As an aside, high levels of vitamin D have also been correlated with diminished tuberculosis virulence, possibly explaining the modest benefit of high altitude tuberculosis sanitariums of years past.

        They were correct about TB still killing over a million people per year.

        And I think to myself ... what a wonderful world.
        Last edited by ZPDM; 05-22-2013, 02:09 AM.


        • #19
          I cannot stress enough DAILY therapeutic dosing of vitamin C 5 to 10 thousand milligrams take it with breakfast with a glass of water.... get it in your system and circulating.

          Tom C

          experimental Kits, chargers and solar trackers


          • #20
            Im using DMSO to push VIT C direct to the the bloodstream in 1 minute ..... patient can taste the vit C and can smell from her breath the VITamins B6 and B12 for the bones as well .


            • #21
              so you are using dmso topically to push C into the blood stream, what are you using for vit C ? and how are you mixing it? i use DMSO for pain relief, although at times it can leave a fish taste in your mouth.

              Tom C

              experimental Kits, chargers and solar trackers


              • #22
                Tom, May I also suggest you look at the research of Dr. Matthias Rath who has done extensive research of micronutrients in general and vitamin C in particular.


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Tom C View Post
                  so you are using dmso topically to push C into the blood stream, what are you using for vit C ? and how are you mixing it? i use DMSO for pain relief, although at times it can leave a fish taste in your mouth.

                  Tom C
                  Hi Tom.
                  DMSO beside being an excellent solvent has ability to penetrate membranes without causing any damage. This is very useful when we treat DMSO as a carrier to take any substance applied topically down to deeper tissue. I've been using DMSO as such with MMS, which allows reaching endodermal tissue with almost full strength of MMS. Oral application cannot assure the same due to the MMS gradually working its way through and breaking down. Also, MMS alone cannot penetrate beyond ectodermal layer. The smell of skin and breath (similar to garlic) is normal with DMSO applications.



                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Tom C View Post
                    so you are using dmso topically to push C into the blood stream, what are you using for vit C ? and how are you mixing it? i use DMSO for pain relief, although at times it can leave a fish taste in your mouth.

                    Tom C
                    Hi Tom
                    As blackchisel said, we can push anything in the blood stream way too fast...... I remember a vegetarian doctor told me that we need to use blender or juice extraction machine to mix with our saliva coz if we consume the normal way . our stomach will be full with not enough nutrients

                    I tried VITamin C together with B6 and B12 capsules mixed with olive oil and 6 drops of DMSO and rub on the knee and spinal column of the patient....
                    After 2 hours, the patient felt her balance is back and can walk without a cane...... a good sign

                    Ozonated water and baking soda for the ph build up also helped a lot including papaya seed juice extract every day.... tomorrow shell go for a swim
                    without the cane anymore.....


                    • #25
                      the reason I am asking about how you are mixing the dmso is that even small amounts of powdered vitamins are really quite low in actual content most of it is binder and filler. with the exception of ascorbic acid which is pure vitamin C but still you need a lot of it to get decent amounts. I tried a teaspoon of ascorbic acid, a 5000 milligram D3 and a 1000 MG B12 in a mortar and pestle. added a bit of oil to make a paste. then 2 teaspons of Gel dmso. that is a lot of product. put it on my arm, slathered it on really and let it sit for a half hour, did not notice any change at all. my dmso may be expired.

                      Tom C

                      experimental Kits, chargers and solar trackers


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Tom C View Post
                        the reason I am asking about how you are mixing the dmso is that even small amounts of powdered vitamins are really quite low in actual content most of it is binder and filler. with the exception of ascorbic acid which is pure vitamin C but still you need a lot of it to get decent amounts. I tried a teaspoon of ascorbic acid, a 5000 milligram D3 and a 1000 MG B12 in a mortar and pestle. added a bit of oil to make a paste. then 2 teaspons of Gel dmso. that is a lot of product. put it on my arm, slathered it on really and let it sit for a half hour, did not notice any change at all. my dmso may be expired.

                        Tom C
                        The way I use DMSO is to apply small amount by wiping on the skin and add whatever I need on top (MMS).
                        50-70% DMSO works fine and there is no greater benefit by using 99%. Also, gel made from DMSO/Aloe Vera works good for tonifying and reducing inflammation.



                        • #27
                          Good 45 minute lecture on Vitamin C by cardiologist Tom Levy MD JD.



                          • #28
                            One other point I would make here that I didn't know a couple weeks ago. I have just finished Levy's "Death by Calcium" book, it was quite good and he makes a compelling case that most of us (through prescription calcium, calcium antacids and too much dairy) are exposed to toxic levels of calcium, aside from him I don't really know of anyone else talking about such an issue. I won't detail his findings as it would take too long but to be extremely cynical, calcium is one of the few "natural" very inexpensive substances widely prescribed by mainstream medicine so of course it is bad for you. Anyways to get to the punch line Dr. Levy was of course talking a great deal about vitamin C in this book as well and so I started taking maybe 3 grams a day, (I've since moved up to 4 or 5 plus 1 gram liposomal), anyways in one the appendices he talked about the various forms of vitamin C, something I wasn't clear on before. So there is pure ascorbic acid sometimes in pill form, then there is the ascorbate ion complexed with different things magnesium ion, or sodium bicarbonate ion for instance. The only one you want to avoid he noted is "buffered" vitamin C as it is ascorbate complexed with calcium. So I went to see what I had been taking and sure enough it was calcium ascorbate. I had been taking lots (maybe 300-400mg) of extra calcium the whole time I was reading "Death by Calcium", hrrmph, just goes to show you especially if you are healthy don't do things quickly or drastically. The take home point though is,

                            Don't supplement with "buffered" calcium ascorbate.


                            • #29
                              How to make liposamal vitamin c

                              I found this on the net somewhere. This could be the real deal. Try at your own risk.
                              I made it many times this way.

                              what you need
                              Ultrasonic jewelry cleaner

                              vit c crystals


                              baking soda


                              Lecithin Granules

                              Three mason jars.

                              1 stainless steel spoon

                              It is very important that you use non-gmo organic for all of your ingredients

                              It is also important to use distilled water. You do not want to use tap water for it is pure poison

                              It is also important to use the baking soda to neutralize the vitamin c so the lecithin granules will

                              If you can not taste the vitamin c then chances are it encapsulated correctly.

                              If any one knows of a more scientific version of testing the encapsulation please
                              let me know so I can up date this information.

                              Step one:
                              Add one cup of distilled water to mason jar.
                              Add 3 level table spoons of Lecithin Granules to mason jar.
                              Shake vigorously for 5 minutes.
                              refrigerate for two hours

                              Step Two:
                              Add 2 ounces of very warm water to second mason jar.
                              Add one level table spoon of Vitamin C to jar.
                              Shake vigorously for 5 minutes.

                              Step Three:
                              Add 2 ounces of water to the third mason jar.
                              Add one heaping tablespoon of baking soda to mason jar.
                              Shake vigorously for 2 minutes.

                              Step Four:
                              Add second mason jar of vitamin c mixture to third mason jar
                              Add very slowly for it will over fizzle
                              Mix until fizzle is almost non existent.

                              Step Five:
                              Take the Lecithin Granules in the first mason jar out of the frig.
                              Shake again vigorously for minutes.

                              Step Six:

                              Add the mason jar of lecithin granules to jewelry cleaner
                              Add the vitamin c and baking soda mixture to the jewelry cleaner.
                              mix with a spoon

                              Step Seven:
                              Run the mixture in the jewelery cleaner for 32 minutes.

                              The mixture is now ready for consumption.

                              refrigerate mixture

                              The dose I am not sure of. You will have to look it up.

                              One shot glass three times a day.
                              Maintenance dose is one shot glass once a day ????? maybe
                              Last edited by damx; 02-26-2015, 08:46 PM.


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by damx View Post
                                How to make liposamal vitamin c

                                I think that is great information and I am glad to hear you have had success with it. I personally shell out a few bucks to Livon Labs because I am trusting their quality control, though I mainly keep the liposomal in reserve now and not for daily use. The founder of Livon if you Google a bit has an interesting history, I won't go into it all but he does feel AIDS was a biological weapon. I actually disagree with him there, I think it was an opportunistic infection filling the vacuum left after things like syphilis (the AIDS of centuries past) and other STDs were banished by antibiotics. Still it gives me a sense of where he is coming from and Dr Thomas Levy, whom I have corresponded with and whom I consider a world class expert on vitamin C has supported and been a spokesman for Livon.

                                Again, that's great information, might be as good as Livon's product, I am certainly not asking you to do this, but if you had a few hundred bucks to throw at it and could figure out the correct way to get it assayed, that would be a really interesting question to have answered. Is the homebrew liposomal just a mixture of oil and vitamin C or is it micelle encapsulated C? Either way, I feel certain it will be good for you, just a matter of degree.