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Water Spark To Hydrogen And Water Vapor Pressure Ran Engines 2005-2008

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  • #31
    Ok, so as of now, there are only about five questions left unanswered regarding the S1R9A9M9 wiring set up on the Briggs 18HP mower engine.

    1.-- Why wasn't the same 400 Watt Inverter box used, as was on all the other many earlier car/tractor engine conversions? 110v AC with half wave or full wave rectification. Resistance in circuit is required for 10 amps. The spark plug electrolyte was about 10-22 ohms. There were MANY series diode voltage drops in the autos circuit schematic. The dual coils relay used per cylinder, in the cars, was about 1.2 ohms total of #21 gauge wire. Nathren said that it couldn't be used on mower engine ,as it came in at a frequency and would just bog down and shut off. If he tried to hook it up himself instead of the real technicians, then he didn't know what he was doing. The change over was then done with car 12v battery.

    2.- Why did Nathren mention many times in his Forum that 100 volts and 10 amps was required to get an engine to start and run on water to hydrogen fuel gas. Did he, as ignorant, mean that he was talking about the 110v Inverter box? He also should have known that all the earlier engines were running on 6-7 amps per cylinder only ,as per the technicians. (garage oscilloscope and hand meters) Salt water Electrolyte at plug tips as about 10 ohms resistance.

    3.-Why wasn't EGR applied on lawn mower engine for the 2 demonstrations of summer 2008. EGR with recirculated Nitrogen from exhaust smooth's out the earlier engines tested idling RPMS. Adjustable valves were added for control on the cars.

    4.- If the increased high voltage from the Capacitor70 circuit provided that proper Plasma Path to allow heavy amps transfer through spark plug, then what was the Bare 5 turns copper #12 gauge coil be used for in that S1R triple coils assembly? Was that needed too? (crossover leakage inductance voltage, I tested, (90-200v) After being miffed ,I then decided that what might have happened, is this,--- After the 2008 demonstrations were over, Nathren clipped off the ground wire that was hooked to the extension cord. That left a stub wire in the black electrical tape with frayed wires you can see in the graph paper photograph. Blow it up to see. He then unwound the proper parallel 7 turns from the secondary side and rewound them directly over the bare copper wire as a 90 degree wind. Now there is no transformer effect as no steel core underneath 7 turns. Do you agree? Nathren was attempting to hide the pertinent data from the public. The final photo as on the graph paper is the converted one as shown to the public. What do you think?

    5.- Why didn't Nathren run the mower engine on just battery power continuously, with the addition of alternator voltage. There are 2 halves of alternator with (2) AC outputs. Battery was used for starter motor and initial circuit start up circuit, so as engine was idling at lower RPM. Battery was completely removed for some reason. (Besides the high volts being on the battery as danger, no safety) The alternator is just wires with rectifier pulses. The extra wire on the starter terminal, going around back of engine, also ran the main circuit when the red positive battery cable clip touched it. Maybe the technicians wanted mower engine to also be self running, just like the V8 on engine stand in their shop running 24 hours-7days, with large generator attached, and water line. - Free electricity for shop.
    Last edited by russwr; 05-07-2024, 01:42 PM.


    • #32
      Currently hooking up the capacitor70 toroid pulse transformer circuit in conjunction with isolated DC to AC to DC power converter, so as can discharge 6 amps through spark plug using the stepped up higher, high voltage . There are 3 spark gaps total. The high volts is to fire through the outer section of N.P. filter capacitor+ protective Varistor , and the 2 diodes in the bridge rectifier. The Cap70 circuit is to allow NO series diodes protective bank that loses 21 volts at 30kv, and would greatly increase the power input from battery. Statements from the Internet said others had used this Cap70 circuit successfully. The (2) toroid cores FT240-31 are isolated transformers at each end of circuit. Now Nathren, S1R9A9M9, had earlier used thin copper washer under spark plugs with wire attached, so as can have a direct return line back to power source, without going through the engine block. I have a spring steel squeeze 3/4" hose clamp opened with vice grips and #12 scraped magnet wire underneath, so as there is a direct line bottom of plug going to power supply ground. It's like the high volts pulse goes through certain section of P.S. secondary side and when at plug top firing ignition, the amps also follows. The P.S. first toroid has high volts 30kv cable on opposite sides of toroid core. There are several types of isolation here. Way back in time, experimenters were shorting out their Inverter boxes. They need the old style ones that have no circuit board on the secondary side. Mine is one better, and is the cheaper, China model open board 500Watt PLAIN INVERTER. The existing SMALL transformer is removed. The original inductance of 1/2 primary was 31uh on inductance test meter. At the 20khz frequency preset, you just add about 4 turns+4 turns centertap windings for primary of Toroid transformer. The end filter capacitor is the low ESR type as non polarized, polypropylene 20uf At using high frequency, you get to use very low count of hand windings.The lower the primary windings, the better is the ratio, for less turns on secondary side needed. Final output should be about 12-18 volts DC, (instead of 35vDC to overcome voltage loss). Current through the spark plug should be 6-7 amps., at about 24kv. The adjustments of final high volts come from the section of PF series capacitors + the gap distance of 1st adjustable spark gap., and gap of engine plug. The L + C together is also the frequency of primary firing. Use computer calculator for series capacitors formula, as about 600pf total with L inductance of primary. When testing spark plug under compression, use Snap-on MT-2700 neon bulbs high volts voltmeter. The proper higher volts will suffice for PLASMA PATH to allow the amps to pass through electrolyte at plug gap. During the 4 cycle waste spark, volts may be higher as way less moisture at that time. With spark in air, plug is 3kv per mm. The Briggs engine under compression would be 2-5. times higher volts applied. I personally prefer the isolated power supply put together, rather than the pre-made Boost DC converter as non isolated, easy to mount, that requires a 2nd battery, because the grounds are the same at both ends.The Briggs engine from 2008, had 12v battery temporary only, then removed, and on board alternator was completely running the conversion circuit. This means that, with using cap70 circuit and output voltage closer to battery voltage, the on board Briggs alternator would then be allowed to recharge a battery, since there is no 21 volts diodes bank loss. I hope you can use some of this data that relates to the duplication of S1R9A9M9 lawn mower18HP engine that ran on water to Hydrogen during summer of 2008 YouTube videos.
      Attached Files
      Last edited by russwr; 06-09-2024, 10:42 AM.


      • #33
        AI answer to question of combining 2 power sources together in the same time to electrical load, such as for instance firing spark plug as electrolysis with small electrodes requiring much higher voltage.
        How well is the superimposition of 110 volts low current separate source, over low volts high current circuit to resistor load? This is to increase voltage for the second source, because a high wattage single source power supply at 110v is not available.

        Superimposing a 110V low current source over a low voltage high current circuit to a resistor load to increase the voltage for the second source is a challenging approach and is generally not recommended due to practical and safety concerns. However, theoretically, it can be considered. Here’s an analysis and a method to achieve this in a controlled manner:
        Conceptual Analysis:

        Voltage Addition:
        When combining a 110V low current source with a low voltage high current source, the total voltage across the resistor will be a combination of the two sources. If the sources are in series, their voltages will add up.

        Current Flow:
        The current through the resistor will be determined by the combined voltage and the resistor’s value. The resistor must handle the total power dissipation.

        Isolation and Compatibility:
        The sources must be isolated properly to prevent damage and ensure they work together. This can involve using transformers for AC sources or proper DC isolation techniques.

        Practical Approach:

        Using Transformers (for AC sources):
        If the 110V source is AC, use a step-down transformer to reduce the voltage to a safer level that can be combined with the low voltage DC source.
        Rectify the AC to DC if needed to match the DC source.

        Series Connection (for DC sources):
        Connect the low voltage high current DC source in series with the step-down transformed and rectified DC source.
        Ensure the polarities are matched correctly to add the voltages.

        Example Scenario:

        Let’s consider:

        Source 1: 110V AC, low current (0.5A)
        Source 2: 12V DC, high current (10A)
        Resistor Load: 10 ohms

        Step-by-Step Process:

        Step-Down Transformer:
        Use a transformer to step down 110V AC to a lower AC voltage, say 10V AC.

        Rectify the 10V AC to obtain 10V DC.

        Series Combination:
        Combine the rectified 10V DC with the 12V DC source to get a total of 22V DC.

        Calculate Current:
        The current through the resistor: I=22V10Ω=2.2AI=10Ω22V​=2.2A.

        Power Dissipation:
        Ensure the resistor can handle the power dissipation: P=V?I=22V?2.2A=48.4WP=V?I=22V?2.2A=48.4W.

        Alternative Method:

        DC-DC Converter:

        Input: Use a DC-DC converter to boost the 12V DC to a higher voltage.
        Output: Adjust the output voltage to the desired level (e.g., 22V DC).
        Current Management: The converter will manage the current draw and provide the necessary output current.


        While theoretically possible, superimposing a 110V low current source over a low voltage high current circuit to a resistor load is complex and risky. The primary concerns are safety, compatibility, and the practical challenges of combining different voltage sources. Using a transformer and rectifier to step down and convert the voltage, followed by combining the sources in series, can work, but it requires careful design and isolation.

        A more practical and safer approach would be to use a DC-DC converter to boost the voltage from the low voltage high current source to the desired level. This method offers better control, efficiency, and safety.
        The triple coils assembly of S1R9A9M9 , in 2008, has 5 loops turns of high voltage ignition volts that HAS INDUCTION of 100 volts into the 12v battery line, 7 turns coil,,(in series) going to the spark plug of the Briggs 18HP mower engine. The old web site had ALSO said they showed a car fender test with 60 turns wire over spark plug cable . This also was to increase the voltage in the outer line separate power source, as (was assumed) also going to spark plug. These 2 increased voltage methods were assumed, since the web forum had no statements in any order, or parts list for conversion of engine to water in carburetor. (hydrogen gas + water vapor pressure) I believe this is how it was done on the previous cars and mower engine conversions. Ebay sells miniature isolated Inverter boards, low wattage, for AC+DC 120v capable to use as IN SERIES with main low voltage source , -- rather than dealing with the high voltage line. Nathren had said -- that other design coils would work also.


        • #34
          At the point when the higher volts DC is applied, and is at the cathode of the ON state diode of lower voltage supply, the lower volts supply shuts off., until other is removed. The S1R9A9M9 coils assembly from 2008, used High volts pulse inducing into the low volts wiring without extra diode. I had measured 90-120 volts on quality neon bulbs automotive test meter with large range. I assumed this was how it was done back then, to raise up the 12v to over 100 volts. Maybe I should leave out the extra diodes on 120v supply.. Presently rewinding very small China Inverter transformer from the open board, with ferrite toroid, and using #16 gauge way LARGER wire, so as the low volts supply can pass current through the new 110v supply secondary winding for 6-10 amps DC. (in series) What about the higher voltage AS DC, applied farther back near the beginning of main circuit, with lower volts supply following later, and then accepted? (DC + DC)


          • #35
            Water Power Engine

            See data regarding S1R9A9M9 from 2005-2019. The Georgia work shop converted several cars to water , of 4,6 8cyl engines along with Briggs 18HP mower engine. See his several briggs videos on Youtube. Web forum shut down. Electrolysis of zero ohms sparkplugs with salt/baking soda water. Low power, but it works. Battery for start only. Then battery completely removed. Engine then ran on alternator with special made triple coils step down transformer and a few other parts. Timing changed with magnetic field over plug wire. Lots data available. (Hydrogen gas and also water vapor pressure both contribute to piston pressure . (Late timing was about Zero continuous to -negative 34 degrees at 10 amps . The 3 technicians in workshop said 100v + 6-7 amps required per pulse, at about 34% duty cycle for one cyl engine. ) The flywheel has to go all around for next high volts pulse. 2 ways for power supply.
            Either fully ISOLATED inverter to dc with using 30kv series diodes protection bank that requires more input battery power to overcome 20v voltage drop, OR, less wattage ISOLATED Inverter to DC and using no protection diodes section, but with Varistor about 18v DC , with sealed tube spark gap 18v, open spark gap about 750v and using all those with the added CAPACITOR 70 STEP UP HIGH VOLTS FERRITE PUL;SE TRANSFORMER with PF capacitors,at LC resonance, and initial spark gap adjustable. The S1R9A9M9 coils assembly has underneath plug cable that allows --- cross leakage inductance voltage of 90-120 volts in series with the low volts line. See pictures of the S1R coil USED ON THE BRIGGS ENGINE .- You have to understand that both primary and secondary of hand wound step down autotransformer requires full core steel under both sections. The coils picture made public only has metal under the primary side 13 turns. (Picture was not the original) The shop people did not disclose everything! Also most people don't know that alternator parts are interchangeable to large magnets type flywheel as on 16-17HP engines , also with the double yellow wires ring alternator of Maximum current output. The 18HP one Nathren used, had dual 1/2 alternators with 4, 4 amp capability. You got it now? The step up was for 10 amps usaage.
            His old car converted was V8 1978 El Camino that ran on 18MPG water for about 3000 miles before being locked up in security garage. Inverter insulated from car metal. Two batteries used on car with alternator charging both. Free electricity for workshop with v8 on engine stand running on water line with power generator. Water vapor pressure with the small Hydrogen produced and fired at spark plugs. 7 amp pulses on oscilloscope.These engines have to have EGR adjustable valve., or added on. The cars had 400watt inverter with many diodes, and (2) in series 1.75millihenry inductors inline to spark plug. The High V comes in exactly at cathode of center diode between the coils. There is also an effect here called radiant energy at that point so that follows down to plugs. (Coils and diode were under sealed vacuum in a Bakelite chamber.) These were referred to by the technicians as the "Magic relays". Not used as functioning type relays, just for the inductors as passing high voltage and low voltage through them.


            • #36

              Earlier data on the conversion circuit called "capacitor70" has been researched and recently partially bench tested. It was hoped that the use of this would aid the ongoing conversion of Briggs engine. The set up was a Capacitor70 pulsed step up transformer using PF capacitors in series and discharging into primary of ferrite step up torroid transformer. The positive ignition high volts entered accessory 1rst spark gap and charged up the PF capacitors same time, and then caps pulse discharged into primary to ground. The secondary side was higher voltage depending on the ratio used. Engine compression also raises up voltage at spark plug. The secondary positive higher volts output connected to the anode side of power supply bridge rectifier. The cathode side connected to top of spark plug. Therefore, the secondary side was in series with the bridge rectifier, and spark plug. Spark plug connected to casting ground, which is same as the ground for positive ignition coil. Separate wire at plug metal, with clamp, went up and was the return line to secondary, and was then on through secondary coil to anode side of rectification. (return line of power supply)
              This set up was to increase the voltage of ignition coil and to also eliminate the use of battery power wasting series string protective diodes bank. He said his earlier use of diodes had melted it's solder and was not good.
              After doing this set up, I found out 2 major flaws. The capacitor discharge circuit was operating in microseconds of time instead of the required milliseconds. Also the pressing of about 24KV against about 2kv diodes indicates only a very short useful time period, due to overvoltage damage. Any protective 75v enclosed spark gaps added on, would only not allow DC to proceed and find only AC. The high volts + DC current (with 100v) have to happen at the same time flowing through spark plug. Also, the initial Capacitor70 torroid shown in picture had only magnet wire on the bare metal surface with the flowing very high voltage. This overall, seemed not a viable circuit, and not done by a COMPETENT technician.
              His earlier diodes type circuit was on 3 separate small motorcycle engines , running on water to hydrogen at electrolysis spark plug. His last statement, was regarding reverting "back" to the diodes design type circuit. Another party had earlier stated his use of the "capacitor70" circuit and was mounted on Volvo car engine and running on water to hydrogen at spark plugs.