How to Make a Bedini Crystal Battery

[Branch Gordon]

Ok...my alum has arrived and I have two small 5AH lead acid batteries I'm going to be converting. See attached photo.



I just want to confirm the process before I get started. Let me know if I have anything wrong please.

1. Charge up both batteries
2. Empty out acid and dispose of (safely).
3. Flush out with mixture of distilled water and baking soda.
4. Continue to flush out with distilled water until it comes out clear.
5. Let dry upside down for a couple days.
6. Mix up 10% alum/distilled water. Adjust until it has a slippery consistency.
7. Pour Alum/distilled water mixture into the cells.
8. Charge up and discharge a few times to form crystals.
9. Ready to use!

This all sound right? I'm not sure if step 8 is totally accurate...

Also, my alum is not currently in a powder form. Do I need to grind these crystals down, or will they just dissolve in water?

Thanks for any help!

[k4zep]

Ben,

Lead Acid Dry Charge

Usually the dry charge batteries are formed but it is recommended to add the acid and charge for two hrs.

If you look at your waveform it looks like a capacitor charging and discharging, You might try charging a super cap and watch the waveform, Lidmotor did real good with the old plates, you have done real good with your converted battery. I have converted batteries that did not work for some reason. It always depended on how bad the plates had been abused. Lead Acid batteries take some real abuse. I wanted a battery that you could take to zero and not hurt it. Crystal batteries fit the ticket, but most of them only developed 1 to 10 Ma for days. I was looking for a battery to drive the SG oscillators to light Led's. By converting the Car type battery it was possible to run hundreds of Led's for two to three days with small amount of sun charging which we have in Idaho. One of the chemicals I talked about in the Earth Light Forum was Epsom Salts gathering heat to generate power. Epsom Salts only works one time in a Lead Acid battery to clean the plates. In a crystal cell with Magnesium it works for heat. You must boil all the water out to use it. Hydrates hold the water locked up in the crystal, so what you really have is a way to use the conversion process to make and use water instead of acid. I was only using Milliamps in the circuits but that turns out to be Amp Hrs for days in a linear discharge curve with the led shining bright all the way down to zero volts. The new Mountain West discharger lets you name the cell and set the cell instead of useing a per-determined curves built into the software. Chuck has done all kind's of experiments running Crystal Batteries for days so he basically can tell if something is going to last. We will not be getting any sun soon here, so we are developing circuits that use very low light to charge. I have 4000 watts of solar panels. So we need batteries that can use small charge to give long hours of lighting. I will be videoing a car battery conversion to a crystal battery. The field is very important but most only consider this a hobby or a social network and will probably die with a Cell Phone in there Ass never knowing how to get energy out of anything. I have talked to you before about what I have been trying to do with the SG and other things. You know what it takes to do things and the cost associated with it. So I respect everything your doing Ben. But I think you understand what is being done here. Some do the Experiments along with you others just watch. Good work Ben hope to talk to you soon by phone, just Pm me and I will call you.

Good Morning John and all,

Its been a long weekend of charge/discharge, charge/discharge. Set charge/discharge rates and so on. I learned a lot. First, my little 4Ah mini pickle battery only has about .3Ah of capacity. I think you called it correctly when you said that it was essentially a "water battery". I'll have to buy another one just like it, put the acid in it, charge/discharge, etc. clean out and make a ALUM battery and see if my capacity is better with a battery that has had acid in it before it is modified. Here is a picture of the charge/discharge curve of this particular battery as of last night.



The Black line is the discharge @ 200 ma which I now realize is way to high but shows the discharge curve very nicely. The notch in it is the bug in my dis-charger that I'm going to have fixed. I looks like a bad data bit in the A to D converter to me but I'll let them fix it. Now look at the RED line, that is the Charge curve @ 200 ma constant current, both curves shown in min. Pretty straight forward but look at the VERY FAST change in impedance and rise to 14..5+++ volts give or take and look at the discharge curve below it. It would suggest that once you pop out of the normal charge area, that high voltage is doing very to add to the capacity, or maybe it occurs at a slower pace there, but the VERY RAPID "Knee" really surprised me. It normally does not rise that fast. When it levels off at the top, the battery then starts boiling and that is another area that needs to be explored!

Now what I worked on for the last 4-5 days is basically summed up in the next picture. I hope I got it right. I cycled the battery @ a 50% duty cycle 100ma, Period of 26 seconds, constant current for long periods of time and here is what I found.


There appears to be a specific point of voltage in the battery where the impedance of the battery and the currents coming and going are summed and only the difference is shown in the curve as a change.
The ALUM battery seems to almost be like a super-cap as John suggested in that it can take energy in and release it at almost 100% efficiency. I had times where for an hour or so, equilibrium was reached and the curve did not go up or down, it just sat there charging/discharging again and again and again. I started it above the equilibrium point and it slowly worked its way down till it stabilized. I also did test where I was below the point and it came back up and settled there. The notch at the left is because I realized I had started the test at a too high voltage and so stopped the charging part of the cycle for 3-4 min and lowered it to near the point and started it up again. I have an indication that it might be charging while it is at equilibrium but can not say for sure yet. So much little subtitle things going on here.

Lots more to look at with my inquiring mind. Remember all, John is doing this for serious as a business, the rest of us are doing it for various reasons, my reason is I'm just plain curious and just like to learn and understand things that happen.

Ossie, its good to see you in here. You do very good work too!

Respectfully,
Ben

[ocallanan]

Greetings All,

There's some great real work being done here in this forum with these technologies by many. I am glad to see it. With the economics of solar technologies now bringing our future of cheap clean energy much closer, real work in these fields of research is badly needed.

I'd like to pose an interesting question. Can a badly sulfated LA battery that has dried up and crystalized be considered to be a "Crystal Battery"?

Ossie

[LesK]

John, Fausto, you have brought up some good points. But now I have some trouble to solve.
My SSG cop went down very badly when running from my alum converted batteries. even when I series two, to put the voltage up. The impedance is quite different than an acid battery.
So here is what I had planned... I am about to start on my six coil build that I wanted to use to charge my L-16's(two for 12 volts). I wanted the input of the six coil to be alum batteries which are charged by my tracker.
the L-16's are going to stay lead acid only because that is what I need to run an inverter.
So I need a little advice on what I might do to optimize my six coil coils etc. to make the best use of the new impedance of the alum battery conversion.

Here is how I look at impedance, and I may have it all screwed up; school was a long time ago...
But I always saw impedance as a resistance to change. In that context change being something like a frequency. So if we call the frequency a ball and the impedance device a window, then when mismatched, we could look at the window as closed, or impeding the ball from going through... But If matched then the window was open. If I only have strength to throw the ball to a certain hight then By changing the impedance of the window I am actually moving the location of the window up or down on the wall while open to meet where the ball is being thrown. Sorry for the simplicity here but from my perspective this is the most critical function of almost every thing we do with this technology we call energizers. So I would really like to get this right. So when we look at the battery impedance of an alum conversion being higher (discharging)or lower(charging) than a Lead acid we have to compensate by making our coils with longer or shorter strands. Since in the solid state replication (or forced oscillator) with two transistors charging two batteries to show us about Krons work(which we still need to get back to...) that has a much shorter wire length than that of my SSG. But it charges to a very high voltage that so far seems to only be a surface charge. So, I am obviously not getting my impedances correct yet. just need a little brain tweek I guess........ but so far I see the impedance of the alum as higher than that of the acid(at least on discharge). which to me seems that I should make my coils slightly shorter?

Thanks
Les

[John_Bedini]

Fausto,
Yes that is what is going on. Happy to see you here as you have done some amazing things too. Correct, people that are interested in this technology will understand what can be done. Lead Crystal technology is a little different in the way it works. It can charge much faster which means the SG or the Oscillator do not need to run that long. Alum Batteries stand in voltage a bit lower but that does not mean they can not supply the power for long periods of time. Thanks for the chime in Fausto you are more then welcome here. Please add what ever you want to this subject as I know you have worked a long time on the cells.

[plengo]

Mr Bedini,

thank you for this amazing video.

I can see a few things on this video that vindicates your claims all this years. First it shows how to build this crystal lead battery.

Second it shows the amazing charge/discharge curves, which indeed has a very linear discharge.

Third it shows very clearly how your Tesla Charge technology works. I see now where those 2 amp pulses come from. They are from the battery itself plus the complementary energy from the solar panels. You are using a clever technique of swinging the battery during charge allowing it to charge to the maximum possible with the least possible of input energy and the shortest time. Almost like you are compressing the charging time for the same input power or even less.

It reminds me of the pendulum you show in you Radiant DVD series where you have the coil in the bottom and the pendulum swings by gravity with the aid of a little pulse you give for every period. You maintain the momentum and at the same time creates a powerful pulse that charges the battery, both batteries actually the primary and secondary with the losses of resistance and so on.

So you are actually using the power from the battey itself plus the complementary power from the sun to charge this cell extremelly fast. I would love to by that Tesla Charge of yours. This causes the battery to "de-sulfate" really fast because you are "charging and discharging" constantly during the whole charging phase. Now I understand why Peter L said that you spent hours and days looking at the scope shots analysing things, just like you show here on the video.

Now, I assume experimenters will have a little bit of trouble trying to replicate the fast charging and long discharge curves because they will most probably not have a Tesla Charge and therefore they will not have the beneficial COP that your charger provides but will at least allow one to create a cell and see by themselves the charge/discharge curve that is characteristic of this kind of hydrate cell, the linear discharge.

It is very genious of you to see that technique and implement a solution such as your Chargers.

I would assume SSG here would works very well for charging this cells too.

Please, let me know if did not understand your technolgy or I misinterpret it wrong.


@All,

guys, just do it. This is indeed a turning point concerning this "right now" technology. One can create many of those cells and charge them using Bedini's technologies or even solar panels, it will not matter. One can charge this cells very fast during the day and discharge them for a long period of time later and they will not break as conventional cells since this cell likes to be used.

Fausto.

[John_Bedini]

LesK,
The Alum batteries work with the hydrate they do not lose water the same way, But I always check to make sure that the water is above the plates in a conversion. The conversion to alum takes time to form up so cycling it works out the best.

[LesK]

LesK,
Sorry I was just saying that solar lights usually only last one summer including the battery.
Everyone I have investigated has always failed the same way, the battery. Circuits usually keep working until they get wet inside.

Roger that...

Do you think these lead plate alum crystal batteries will ever be able to work like the Magnesium Copper? So that all you have to do is add water?

Les

[twalters]

Hey all! Would this be the compound I am wanting for an alum battery conversion: Photographers' Formulary Ammonium Aluminum Sulfate - 10-0090?

I learned that nuts.com offers Alum at more reasonable price of 2.99 for 1 lb, plus shipping.

[Woody]

Hi All,

Was out at John Bedini's shop today and saw some very incredible developments with crystal batteries. I can't discuss what I saw but I can tell you that the principles of making and breaking water still apply as these are miniature water fuel cells. These new developments are his company's property so I don't think he can share any specifics on them yet.

These concepts are all laid out in Peter Lindemann's Battery Secrets presentation. If you already have it, I'd recommend watching it again very carefully. If you haven't seen it, do yourself a favor and get a copy so you know the basic principles. It lays out the simple principles in easy terms that most experimenters can understand.



That is the MUST HAVE presentation not just for understanding lead acid batteries (which are also water fuel cells in reality) but also for these crystal batteries and the more advanced methods that John is working on out at his shop with Chuck. It is something that nobody has seen before that we know of and it is backed up by plenty of data on the charts as well.

Howdy Aaron,

I am trying to get the Battery Secrets video but all the links appear to be broken. Little help, please? Anyone else having this problem?

Thanks,

-Woody

[John_Bedini]

Ben,

Lead Acid Dry Charge

Usually the dry charge batteries are formed but it is recommended to add the acid and charge for two hrs.

If you look at your waveform it looks like a capacitor charging and discharging, You might try charging a super cap and watch the waveform, Lidmotor did real good with the old plates, you have done real good with your converted battery. I have converted batteries that did not work for some reason. It always depended on how bad the plates had been abused. Lead Acid batteries take some real abuse. I wanted a battery that you could take to zero and not hurt it. Crystal batteries fit the ticket, but most of them only developed 1 to 10 Ma for days. I was looking for a battery to drive the SG oscillators to light Led's. By converting the Car type battery it was possible to run hundreds of Led's for two to three days with small amount of sun charging which we have in Idaho. One of the chemicals I talked about in the Earth Light Forum was Epsom Salts gathering heat to generate power. Epsom Salts only works one time in a Lead Acid battery to clean the plates. In a crystal cell with Magnesium it works for heat. You must boil all the water out to use it. Hydrates hold the water locked up in the crystal, so what you really have is a way to use the conversion process to make and use water instead of acid. I was only using Milliamps in the circuits but that turns out to be Amp Hrs for days in a linear discharge curve with the led shining bright all the way down to zero volts. The new Mountain West discharger lets you name the cell and set the cell instead of useing a per-determined curves built into the software. Chuck has done all kind's of experiments running Crystal Batteries for days so he basically can tell if something is going to last. We will not be getting any sun soon here, so we are developing circuits that use very low light to charge. I have 4000 watts of solar panels. So we need batteries that can use small charge to give long hours of lighting. I will be videoing a car battery conversion to a crystal battery. The field is very important but most only consider this a hobby or a social network and will probably die with a Cell Phone in there Ass never knowing how to get energy out of anything. I have talked to you before about what I have been trying to do with the SG and other things. You know what it takes to do things and the cost associated with it. So I respect everything your doing Ben. But I think you understand what is being done here. Some do the Experiments along with you others just watch. Good work Ben hope to talk to you soon by phone, just Pm me and I will call you.

[k4zep]

Forming a new non acid battery

Good morning John,

One question. In my virgin mini Pickle battery that never had acid in it, does it need to be "formed" by reverse charging it for 10 min or so @ about 1 Amp.? Would this help the baseline voltage rise up that volt+ I don't have right now in the battery? I never did a "form" cycle on it. Just started off charging the heck out of it......and settled down now in the C10-20 rates.

Thanks
Ben

[k4zep]

Ben,
That is about right and that is what I would expect to happen. The Alum battery since it was never formed it would stand .7 to 1.1 volt lower as no sulphuric acid is used. I bought one of the Mountain West charger dischargers I have some real good graphs running with this type of battery. I'm only using a load of 80 to 100Ma since that is where I'm going to run the cells. They follow a very strange charge and discharge curve. it does take a while to form the battery. What you have Ben, is a water battery because of the Hydrate in Alum, Hydrate/9 or Hydrate/6 would help on the power of the cell. I'm looking for a battery that works like Solar Lights without the problems the circuits have with the Ni-Cad's, good for one summer battery. I would form the battery very slow at 100 Ma to 300 Max until the voltage level is good. Do a C20 discharge unless you want to see if you can hurt it.
Good Work Ben.

Thanks John,

I can see where your experiments are headed. With a crystal battery, you would have virtually a unlimited number of cycles while being charged from a solar panel and a solar light would last essentially a lifetime discounting nominal physical and electronic failures! I hope it works out and being "Bedini", I have a hunch it will.

I'm still learning about batteries and their impedance changes! I'll research the addition of a hydrate/9 or /6 additive. I think you showed what one of them was in your battery video when you added copper sulphate
to the mix. I'll keep looking, try and find a chemical supply house here in St. Pete, FL. I find it obvious now that the battery even with the high voltage that develops in it during the charge cycle, it is not absorbed and converted @ 100% (Duh)...hence the discharge. This has deviled me for years when working with your units. I have a very definite love/hate relationship with batteries. But I'm still learning. Here is the results of the discharge cycle @ 10 hours, give or take.

I'm going to have to send my discharger off the West Mountain and get it updated to the higher resolution unit. Mine has a bug or two in it but then it is 4-5 years old.

I am continuing the charge/discharge cycles. I removed the charge part of the cycle and let it drop/discharge about a volt and have restarted the cycle to see what happens in the middle of the
low impedance part of the battery. Here is a picture of the start. Notice the discharge single line, then when I add the charge back, you can see the bounce back and the cyclic window and it is very narrow.


I hope I am not boring you fine folk to death with this stuff. I find a picture is worth a thousand words.

Ben

[John_Bedini]

LesK,
Sorry I was just saying that solar lights usually only last one summer including the battery.
Everyone I have investigated has always failed the same way, the battery. Circuits usually keep working until they get wet inside.

[Aaron Murakami]

Hi All,

Was out at John Bedini's shop today and saw some very incredible developments with crystal batteries. I can't discuss what I saw but I can tell you that the principles of making and breaking water still apply as these are miniature water fuel cells. These new developments are his company's property so I don't think he can share any specifics on them yet.

These concepts are all laid out in Peter Lindemann's Battery Secrets presentation. If you already have it, I'd recommend watching it again very carefully. If you haven't seen it, do yourself a favor and get a copy so you know the basic principles. It lays out the simple principles in easy terms that most experimenters can understand.



That is the MUST HAVE presentation not just for understanding lead acid batteries (which are also water fuel cells in reality) but also for these crystal batteries and the more advanced methods that John is working on out at his shop with Chuck. It is something that nobody has seen before that we know of and it is backed up by plenty of data on the charts as well.