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  • #46
    Resistors

    Originally posted by sinergicus View Post
    REgarding the value of the rezistors...In the book was mentioned in one place about 640 ohm rezistor value (pg 38) and after that ,at the page 63 is mentioned 470 ohm value of the resistors...so in the final, what is the real value of the resistors 640 or 470?

    In the book nothing was specified about fine tuning of the device ...no variable rezistor or another method...my question is: do you think is not necessary that potentiometer often mentioned in forums and used for fine tuning?Is enough that fixed resistors to obtain optimum efficiency from the device?
    Dear Sinergicus,

    Sorry for the confusion on the Resistors. On page 38, I am simply showing a "sample resistor" and describing the color code for determining its value. This Resistor is never associated directly to the SG circuit. On page 63, I give the exact specification of the Resistor that John asked me to put in the book. So, that is the one to use.

    We did NOT discuss "fine tuning" the circuit with a potentiometer because that is a more advanced idea and this is the "Beginner's Handbook." Also, when I asked John about this, he told me not to include it, again, because this book is for beginners.

    Best regards,
    Peter
    Peter Lindemann, D.Sc.

    Perpetual Motion Reality | Magnetic Energy Secrets | Advanced Motor Secrets | Battery Secrets
    Magnet Secrets | Save on Home Energy | Real Rain Making | The Real History of the Ed Gray Motor
    Classic Energy Videos | Bedini SG Beginners Handbook

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by Retep View Post
      Dear Cald,

      Thanks for all of your support and for this post. The explanation in the book is NOT wrong. There is an AC wave in the Trigger Winding. An oscilloscope across the resistor in the Trigger will show you this. This AC wave is what turns the Transistor ON and OFF.

      Moving a N pole away from the coil OR moving a S pole toward the coil produce the SAME effect in the Trigger Winding. I didn't mention the virtual South Poles on the rotor because this is a Beginner's Handbook and their existence is not required to explain the current flows in the Trigger from the "conventional" point of view. I assume, since you thought of this, others may have also. Thanks for bringing it up so we could discuss it a little bit more.

      Best regards,
      Peter
      Dear Peter,

      Thanks for your prompt replay. To be honest, explanation from the book (fact that is not mentioned anything about south pole) did confused me little bit, since I have like all others I suppose, used to conventional explanations of creating alternating current by rotating permanent magnets, and thus switching N and S poles. So, before your replay, I started to think about ways for checking claims from the book (about N pole causing the current to change its direction). Than I picked up one permanent magnet in my hand and make movements toward the coil and away from the coil keeping N pole constantly facing coil core, and measuring voltage across the coil to see if it will change its polarity from "+" to "-". So, result was that voltage across the coil did really change polarity! This was something new that I have learned today! Thanks for that.

      Regards,
      cald
      Last edited by caldovicd; 12-18-2012, 01:18 PM. Reason: Deleted some unnecessary lines

      Comment


      • #48
        Regarding the magnets suggested in the book,if I decide to using the configuration given in this picture , with round magnets,bedinimotor1.jpg what is the optimum recommended ratio between diameter of the core (in our case 0,75 inches in diameter ) and diameter of the round magnets ...I can,t find in area where I live the dimensions of the magnets what you recommend in the book (just smaller magnets)...Also, round magnets seems to be cheaper than rectangular magnets...
        Last edited by sinergicus; 12-19-2012, 01:52 AM.

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by sinergicus View Post
          Regarding the magnets suggested in the book,if I decide to using the configuration given in this picture , with round magnets,[ATTACH=CONFIG]1252[/ATTACH] what is the optimum recommended ratio between diameter of the core (in our case 0,75 inches in diameter ) and diameter of the round magnets ...I can,t find in area where I live the dimensions of the magnets what you recommend in the book (just smaller magnets)...Also, round magnets seems to be cheaper than rectangular magnets...
          sinergicus, that is a different machine than in the book. It uses a hall switch and a timing wheel instead of the trigger winding. The magnets may not be strong enough on that machine if you are using a trigger winding.

          In any case, the diameter should be at least the same diameter as the coil core (0.75").

          John K.

          Comment


          • #50
            Dear Peter and Aaron,

            Do you have info about when will be available Bedini 2nd and 3rd book? I have built SSG according first book, and now want to cycle batteries and test them to determine COP values. Also, fine tuning info is needed.

            Thanks,
            cald

            Comment


            • #51
              Hi Cald,

              Both books will probably be released before the Bedini-Lindemann 2013 Conference at the end of June.

              There is still tuning info in this thread and info on cycling batteries I believe.

              Just about everyone is on winter/Christmas vacation until Jan 2 so we're all taking it easy right now.

              Have a great new year!
              Aaron Murakami





              You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.” ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

              Comment


              • #52
                Hello Aaron

                Thank you for the book. I am very happy to collect all SSG information at one place.
                Awesome work and thanks to all of you who have made that possible.

                I have a few questions you might be able to answer. I start all over again with the original SSG as shown in the beginning of the Book.


                Chapter 1 - page 13 - 14

                1. Coil windings - page 13 - 450 turns - but page 14 JB suggest between 450 - 800 turns. So how many windings ?

                2. Bobbin size - what is the exact size for this configuration ?

                3. Core material - in some pictures I have seen, the iron rod / core sticks 2 - 3 mm up (top of the bobbin). In other
                pictures they do not stick up. What is the reason they should stick up and others not ?

                4. If they should stick up how much - 2 mm 3 mm ?


                Chapter 6 - the two modes of running

                1. Wire windings - should the two 23 AWG and 26 AWG wires be twisted, counter clockwise or clockwise ?

                2. Attraction mode - should it be wired counter clockwise or clockwise around the bobbin ?
                Depend how you hold the bobbin in front of you ? possible to pictures it ?


                Other questions

                1. The distance between the rotor and the core - how much ?

                2. I have been reading you post regarding you OU Cop 123. Fantastic:-)
                You use bigger component for bigger battery, but you also use neodynium magnets, but as far I understand the best is
                ferrit magnets, so why neo magnets ? what is the reason ?

                So far so good. Looking forward to show what I have been doing.


                All the best and thanks, looking forward for your reply


                Regards

                Freepower

                Comment


                • #53
                  Thanks a lot for putting this book together! Couple of tiny typos if interested--p.63 "The one's" should be "The ones" and p.23 "passed" should be "past." To think I rewound my counter clockwise coil because I thought it would not work as well! The thread that I consulted had the general opinion that counter clockwise winds was the reason for poor performance...am interested to try method #2 and see if the remaining charge runs show an improvement! Thanks again,

                  Mike
                  Last edited by Mike Swanson; 12-28-2012, 05:50 AM.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Hey guys I just build the energizer in the books mine has 6 main core wires 1 trigger ... basically the same as the book minus one main coil wire.
                    All seems good the wheel is spinning up alot faster than my original model with one transistor.
                    In the book it says one of the final testing procedures is to disconnect the second battery and all the neon bulbs should flash on! its only flashing the last two whatt seems like a random pattern.
                    do I have to test all bulbs?? How? Then what maybe test the transistors? Im assuming the transistors are working as the machine spins , or is it like my car and can run on 6 or 4 cylinders ..

                    cheers.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by mrbeale View Post
                      Hey guys I just build the energizer in the books mine has 6 main core wires 1 trigger ... basically the same as the book minus one main coil wire.
                      All seems good the wheel is spinning up alot faster than my original model with one transistor.
                      In the book it says one of the final testing procedures is to disconnect the second battery and all the neon bulbs should flash on! its only flashing the last two whatt seems like a random pattern.
                      do I have to test all bulbs?? How? Then what maybe test the transistors? Im assuming the transistors are working as the machine spins , or is it like my car and can run on 6 or 4 cylinders ..

                      cheers.
                      Are your transistor matched? if the beta is different, and the base resistor is different you will see them not flashing at the same time .dont do that as a general rule the neons only protect for a short while.

                      Tom C


                      experimental Kits, chargers and solar trackers

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Freepower View Post
                        Chapter 1 - page 13 - 14

                        1. Coil windings - page 13 - 450 turns - but page 14 JB suggest between 450 - 800 turns. So how many windings ?

                        2. Bobbin size - what is the exact size for this configuration ?

                        3. Core material - in some pictures I have seen, the iron rod / core sticks 2 - 3 mm up (top of the bobbin). In other
                        pictures they do not stick up. What is the reason they should stick up and others not ?

                        4. If they should stick up how much - 2 mm 3 mm ?


                        Chapter 6 - the two modes of running

                        1. Wire windings - should the two 23 AWG and 26 AWG wires be twisted, counter clockwise or clockwise ?

                        2. Attraction mode - should it be wired counter clockwise or clockwise around the bobbin ?
                        Depend how you hold the bobbin in front of you ? possible to pictures it ?


                        Other questions

                        1. The distance between the rotor and the core - how much ?

                        2. I have been reading you post regarding you OU Cop 123. Fantastic:-)
                        You use bigger component for bigger battery, but you also use neodynium magnets, but as far I understand the best is
                        ferrit magnets, so why neo magnets ? what is the reason ?

                        So far so good. Looking forward to show what I have been doing.


                        All the best and thanks, looking forward for your reply


                        Regards

                        Freepower
                        Hi Freepower,

                        That 450 turn recommendation is just the minimum for the small roller skate School Girl energizer that Shawnee built. You could wind more than 450, that is safe enough that the wires won't slip off the ends of the coil or bulge too much in the middle. (According to the recommended size of the spool). If you want to make a small one just for learning the principles, I wouldn't go more than 500-600 turns on a small coil like that. That wire is fairly small 23 awg for the power winding and can give you quite a bit of resistance with too many windings.

                        Please see the notes at the bottom of the diagram on page 13 regarding the bobbin size.

                        The core does not really have to stick out past the bobbin. Some actually have a half inch or more sticking out the bottom and that is simply used to drill a hole in the coil mounting plate and the rod that sticks out goes into that hole to help center and hold that coil in place. There are some magnetic field shaping characteristics that can come into play with the rod sticking out either end, but that is going into advanced concepts. If you want to make a small School Girl like Shawnees, I would just make the rods the same height as the spool. My core on my little School Girl is a solid piece of iron that sticks out a few mm's past the top of the spool but it isn't necessary.

                        For the 23 and 26 awg wires on the small School Girl, I wouldn't worry about twisting them - Shawnee didn't. If you want to make a big one with 7 windings for example for the Bicycle wheel energizer, then I'd twist them.

                        For the attraction mode, it doesn't really matter which way you wind the coil. Whatever polarity is at the top of the coil, then make the magnets on the rotor the appropriate polarity sticking out. Those details are in the book.

                        Gap between rotor and core, on the small School Girl, I have about 4-5mm on mine. You want it close enough so the trigger is strong enough to turn the transistor on. If it is too far away, the induced current from the magnets might be too weak. Probably for most applications, you will always be under 1 cm. Is the gap not specified in the book? I'll have to double check.

                        I used Neo magnets on my little School Girl because simply, that is all I had at my immediate disposal when I built it. I also happen to be running it in attraction mode from the very beginning as was all my bicycle wheel varieties. I just happened to stumble on the attraction mode 12 year ago or so when I first built mine and stuck with it. For now, I would recommend sticking with ceramics.

                        This is very important - in repulsion mode, when the coil charges, the magnet is leaving and the coil bucks up against that magnet and that bucking loss you will never be able to recover no matter what you do. If it is a neo in repulsion mode, imagine how hard the circuit has to work to charge the coil with a like field that pushes against that magnet. So, you want ceramics.

                        This is my speculation at the moment and I'm not making any claims because two wheels need to be tested - one with ceramics and one with neos to see which is best IN ATTRACTION MODE. In this mode, when the coil charges, it is pulling the magnet to it and the permanent magnet field is in alignment/polarity/phase with the magnetic field of the coil instead of in opposition. So, you get a lot more mechanical work and more electrical recovery at the same time. So, in this case, I have not seen evidence that neos would be bad in this case and may actually be of benefit since there is no bucking loss against them, the magnets being in alignment with the magnetic coil means the magnets will ALWAYS remain strong and will not weaken from being repulsed and when the magnet is leaving and the coil turns off, the collapsed field has a stronger permanent magnetic field to pull potential from.

                        I've already proven that I can use some neos in a special configuration in relation to the magnets on the rotor and BOTH increase mechanical work and reduce draw from the primary battery at the same time. I've diagrammed that out and explained this online for almost 10 years and nobody paid attention so I'm not going to spell it out for anyone anymore, but it may be included in the advanced book. The point in bringing this up is simply, I know how to use neos to increase mechanical and reduce draw on a SSG indisputably and to my knowledge, I'm the only one that has proven it. This little secret will work with a ceramic magnet too but the effect is just stronger with a neo. So, neos aren't always a bad thing.

                        Notice when I said the coil is pulling potential from a magnet, literally. A magnet is a SOURCE of potential as it is a dipole that has polarized and condensed the Aether. Permanent magnets ARE a source of potential that can do work. And, you can rip the potential from a permanent magnet right off of the magnet and the Aether will simply "fill the magnet back up" immediately so it didn't lose anything. If there is a magnet in alignment with an electromagnetic coil and the coil turns off, the magnetic field collapses and pulls the potential from the magnet by literally creating a vacuum that that pulls in the opposite polarity from the magnet right into the coil and adds that to the spike. That is a direct transformation of permanent magnetic field info voltage potential that is added to the battery. As soon as potential is removed from the permanent magnet, the "vacuum energy" or Aether simply replaces it.

                        Now assume that the above paragraph is true. I personally accept this as an indisputable fact that I have known from the beginning in terms of how the SG works, but that is just my opinion. It is an oscillating gas pump. If true, then the stronger the magnet in attraction mode, the more potential there is at the permanent magnet that it can suck off and add to the battery. There may be a point where the magnet could be too strong and the downfall outweighs the benefit. The test will come by simply having identical rotors with different magnets on them - ceramic and neos and see what draws less at a faster speed, etc... Neos obviously are a downfall in repulsion mode and everyone needs to test it themselves to see if it is a downfall or an advantage in attraction mode.
                        Aaron Murakami





                        You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.” ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Mike Swanson View Post
                          Thanks a lot for putting this book together! Couple of tiny typos if interested--p.63 "The one's" should be "The ones" and p.23 "passed" should be "past." To think I rewound my counter clockwise coil because I thought it would not work as well! The thread that I consulted had the general opinion that counter clockwise winds was the reason for poor performance...am interested to try method #2 and see if the remaining charge runs show an improvement! Thanks again,

                          Mike
                          Mike,

                          Thanks for the typo notes, will check them out.

                          The coil winding direction always has to be taken in context with the polarity of the magnet that is facing out on the wheel. So depending, it may not even matter which direction it is wound as long as it is wired properly. As long as the coil is wired properly regardless of winding direction, for attraction mode, simply make the magnets on the rotor appropriate for the polarity on top of the coil. Basically, nobody should ever have to rewind a coil in a different direction because the connections can just be made proper. If the coil is wound in any direction and is wired correctly, then it is only a matter of placing the magnets on the rotor in the proper configuration depending on what mode you want.
                          Aaron Murakami





                          You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.” ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by mrbeale View Post
                            Hey guys I just build the energizer in the books mine has 6 main core wires 1 trigger ... basically the same as the book minus one main coil wire.
                            All seems good the wheel is spinning up alot faster than my original model with one transistor.
                            In the book it says one of the final testing procedures is to disconnect the second battery and all the neon bulbs should flash on! its only flashing the last two whatt seems like a random pattern.
                            do I have to test all bulbs?? How? Then what maybe test the transistors? Im assuming the transistors are working as the machine spins , or is it like my car and can run on 6 or 4 cylinders ..

                            cheers.
                            Mr. Beale, ditto on what Tom said about matched components but that is more of an intermediate or advanced concept. If you have a scope and you can scope each transistor, you can see if they're all working or not. Looking at the neons is just for simplicity for many beginners who may not even have a scope.

                            On smaller builds like Shawnee's sized SG, not having an output battery with a small coil like that isn't going to be an issue. It just becomes a problem with larger wire windings and multi windings where the kickback pressure can be large enough to explode your transistors like popcorn. That isn't a thermal breakdown of the transistor, it is a gas pressure explosion of the Aether, literally. It doesn't have enough of an outlet and will find one of least resistance through the transistor.

                            Anyway, if you don't have a scope, you should be able to use the dc or ac setting and put the leads across the transistor on each one to see if they're all similar, then you know it is working - doesn't matter how accurate the numbers are, just looking for consistency.

                            Also notice the transistor temperature in attraction mode compared to repulsion mode.
                            Aaron Murakami





                            You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.” ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Thanks guys or the reply.
                              About the transistors I bought them all from the same shop(jaycar) probably got ripped on the price but as for being matched I think you're right Aaron its a little advanced because the beginners manual book dosnt mention anything about being matched, how would one know about these being matched anyway.

                              I did measure all the voltages at the transistor and every possible combination there and they are all the same!! The energizer dos seem to be runnning ok from what I know but these neons dont flash except for two.

                              Il keep poking around see what I can find there.

                              Cheers guys

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Regarding coil core....is not clear for me why is used welding rods uncovered with lac (used in transformers to avoid edy currents) .The losses because of edy currents in the SSG core will not be manifested?

                                Comment

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