8 Transistor SG Kit Not Starting

[Yaro1776]

John K,

Thanks for the heads up on this issue - some changes may be required on page 67 of the SG Beginners book which states this method for checking the safety bypass circuit. Don't mean to be a pain, but just pointing out an inconsistency here, that as you can see, creates a small level of confusion to the beginning SSG wizard.

Best to you,
Yaro

[John_Koorn]

Randy and Yaro,

please do not disconnect the charge battery to test if the neon bulbs light up. You will damage your transistors. Since they are all a matched set you'll have to replace all 8 if you blow one.

John K.

[Yaro1776]

Congratulations Randy,

Devil is always in the details to get the SSG running for the first time. If the wheel is accelerating then the coil and board are doing their thing - the LED's should light up if you briefly disconnect the Charge + cable from the battery. The circuit and coil combo will growl at you to reconnect the cable.

Life is good!

Yaro

[rsargent52]

It's Alive! Got it all rebuilt without the metal supports and some other enhancements and it is up and running.
Gave the wheel a whirl and it spun up so fast I had to slow it down to keep the magnets secure. I did notice the LEDs did not fire up though.
Here are my changes:
1. Built upright supports out of wood instead of metal.
2. Used ABS plastic to hold wheel to uprights - slotted to make it adjustable.
3. Shortened rods to be about the same size as the coil mounted on solid wood with no hole under it.
4. Also made sure the coil was mounted perfectly level.
5. Cleaned up wiring a little.
6. Cleaned up all the notches on my wheel where magnets mount to insure they are the same depth to keep gap from coil consistent.
7. Lined all notches in wheel where magnets mount with Liquid Tape. I also put a couple pieces of black electrical tape on back side (south) of magnets. It is an aluminum wheel but I wanted to insure there was no electrical interference.
Now I gotta play with it a little. Thanks for everybody's input.
Here are a couple of pics:


This is it running (above)


Here is is stationary

[Tom C]

yes there is.... a resistor 4.7K to be precise... extra protection for the neon..... JB approved.
Tom C

[Tom C]

another assumption is that your magnets are all north out... switching the coil trigger wire locations will tell you.....
thanks for the picture, everything looks great.

Tom C

[rsargent52]

While I am rebuilding using some ABS plastic and wood, I am posting a pic of the back of my circuit board as requested.

[Tom C]

you can get it here...
http://www.teslagenx.com/digital.html

Tom C

[Bung-ee]

I'll be building a SG soon soon.
By any means : do you happen to have Peter lindemann's beginner handbook ?

[Tom C]

ok randy,

if all the connections are correct, Diodes are facing the correct direction, and you have no cold solder joints (a pic of the back would help) and all the enamel is off the wires, and everything ohms out then what is left is there is not enough induced voltage in the trigger circuit, which means you need to move the coil like yaro said, remove the zip ties and run threaded packing tape around your rim. Then get the coil 1/8 inch away. then repeat the base circuit voltage test Erik mentioned earlier.check the crimps on the trigger circuit, and for grins remove the crimp terminals, restrip the wire and wrap it around the bolts and put a flat washer on there, then nut it down hard. also move the trigger wire to on top of the battery cable instead of next to it this will insure a good connection

Tom C

[Yaro1776]

Randy,

To my beginner's eye your connections all look right as shown in the pics - the experts can verify your wiring. But, the last pic of the coil to magnet interface shows that the coil face is not centered parallel to the magnet face (may be the camera angle). If your wheel mount base is level as it sits, the center of the wheel axle should be directly above the center of the coil rods. The last pic suggests that the coil be moved to the right about an inch or so for the magnets to be parallel to the face of of the coil and rods as they rotate by. This may help...

By the way the gap dimensions in your post came through as gibberish, this may be a fault/quirk in the forum software.

You are nearly there,
Yaro

[rsargent52]

My camera broke so I only have my phone to take pics with and for some reason it is having trouble focusing.
Here are some more shots from a couple angles and focal points - hopefully it shows better.
Maybe the issue is my metal frame - I will try to get time to swap it out tomorrow.

[Tom C]

Randy,

any chance you could get it in focus, its hard to see what's is where.

Tom C

[rsargent52]

Here it is with all connections:

[rsargent52]

Thanks guys, for all the support! So I have stepped through all of the recommendations. I set it up with all 8 coil strands active. First, here are readings I have taken:

Voltage Readings - Mulitmeter reading with + conductor on battery and - conductor on board screws
Primary Battery = 13.1v Seconday Battery = 12.5v

Board Location Battery Terminal Voltage
Start Power Primary + 0
Start Power Primary - 13.1
Start Power Secondary + 12.6
Start Power Secondary - 12.6
Charge + Primary + 12.5
Charge + Primary - 25.2
Charge + Secondary + 25.2
Charge + Secondary - 12.6
Primary - Primary + 13.3
Primary - Primary - 0
Primary - Secondary + 25.2
Primary - Secondary - 13.1
Trigger Primary + 13.1
Trigger Primary - 0
Trigger Secondary + 25.2
Trigger Secondary - 13.1

Here is Continuity Testing with Batteries Disconnected
Point 1 Point 2 Reading
Trigger Primary - 3.1
Trigger after Resistor Primary - 15.2
Trigger Feed to Primary - 3.1
All Start Power Poles Feed to Primary + 1.6
All Start Power Poles Feed to Seconday - 1.6
Center Pole Transistor Feed to Primary + 1.6

Here are notes on testing all the points suggested:

When I take the system apart to replace metal with wood, I will do a free spin test of the wheel without the coil and see how it does. This is a pretty good bicycle rim though, and it does spin fairly freely right now. The only resistance I am noticing is the magnets passing the rod.

Started with a gap between magnets and rod of about ¾”. Then moved it in to a ¼” gap. When at a close gap when a magnet is close to the rod it pulls in to align. If the magnet is off set from the rod more than 1”, it does not pull in.

With secondary battery connected, then when I connect the primary if a magnet is directly over the coil a noticeable vibration and clicking that you can hear once. But no LEDs lit up. This happens when I have 4 or more leads connected with it getting stronger as I add more leads.
I left the secondary battery disconnected, and connected the Primary Positive, then touched the lead to the Primary Negative and the LEDs all lit up and turned off.

As suggested, checked voltage at transistor. Outer pins show now voltage. Center pin reads 13.1v – when I spin the wheel it will have drops down to 12.91v when wheel is spinning fastest, then as the wheel slows down voltage goes back up. Based on comments, it sounds like the voltage is going the wrong direction (what could cause that?). Outer pins of transistors do not show any readings but mv when stationary or when wheel is spinning.

With the primary battery disconnected, I accidently reversed the connections on the charge battery and the LEDs lit up. This was just touching the pole rapidly then jumping off. Re-tested readings and nothing seems to have been hurt. If something looks incorrect please feel free to slam me!

Below is a pic with everything connected. Thanks again - I am determined to make this puppy fly!