Bedini SG problem - Neon bulb lights once and nothing happens later.

[Brodie Gwilliam]

are those neo's? Your supposed to be using ceramics, and remember if coil is wound clockwise the connections will have to be different from schematics to still be in attraction, but i assume you know that... radiant doesnt read in amperage so no need for amp meter on the charge side really, you probably shouldn't draw much more then an amp from primary in theory on your system (if tuned correctly) i would think. How many stand and what wire size? also try to keep primary batter above 12.2-12.4 under load.

[AndBirch]

Even though your transistor seems to be working fine, it can still be damaged and give an indication that it is ok when it is not. I have seen damaged transistors appear to switch fine but do not charge the secondary battery very well... Don't be afraid to put a new transistor in there.


The best practice is to keep many new ones on hand for experiment and situations like this. Find a Potentiometer this will aid in adjusting and tuning the machine to get it to run properly, I recommend purchasing two potentiometers one from 0-100ohm and one 0-1000 ohm, minimum 2-3 watts. Run both in series on the trigger this will give you a good feel for what base resistance does to the operation of the machine and offer you flexibility, with the best of both worlds when it comes to tuning... a fairly fine and also course adjustment.

Thanks Dave,
As I change the resistor 470 ohm to both of them in parallel mode (235 ohm now), the movement is maintained and its works. The wheel runs at about 120 rpm.
I built my system according to the "Bedini SG - The Complete Beginner's handbook". The bicycle wheel is 26" with 18 magnets. Attraction mode. The coil has been wound as you made it in your video with Peter Lindeman (clockwise). Magnets with north outside the wheel.
Exemples of measures during operation:
- Power: 11.88V - 3.45A
- Charge: 36.9V - 0.75A (3 batteries in serial mode)
Do you think these values are correct as there is more power in the input circuit than in the output circuit ?
The power battery will be exhausted quickly!



Many thanks again, AndBirch.

[Branch Gordon]

Switching to my own thread as I have kind of hijacked this guy's thread...

[Branch Gordon]

Ok just to confirm so I know I understand.

The bundle coming out of the center of my coil is considered bottom, and should be connected to the holes labeled Bottom on my 4 Tek board, correct?

the correct coil orientation for north out magnets is that the start of coil is at the bottom...... the bundles wires coming out of the center.

Tom C

[Tom C]

coil orientation

the correct coil orientation for north out magnets is that the start of coil is at the bottom...... the bundles wires coming out of the center.

Tom C

[Branch Gordon]

I am just gonna rip these magnets off my wheel and correct them first before I try anything else. Better to have it right. I will update once that is done and I can assess any improvement.

[Branch Gordon]

Hi John-

So a recap of changes I have made.

1. I discovered my magnets south facing out on my wheel...oops!
2 I swapped all the cables around fron my coil to circuit to compensate for wrong magnet orientation (was this the correct thing to do?)
3. I am still plying with coil gap while watching rpm and my scope.
4. I took out my 470 ohm resistors and put in 220 ohm resistors instead.

Here is a video, which also shows my scope shot: http://youtu.be/j5bX4oiQ_Tw

Other details: my frame is solid oak. Brass screws. Last time I checked my wheel had a free spin time of over 11 minutes. 12 gauge wires going to batteries.

Hi Branch, I always adjust the coil gap for maximum RPM. The way I look at it is that at that point there is the least amount of drag and highest efficiency. I've been getting pretty good results that way.

I guess we can eliminate the coil and circuit, so that just leaves the wheel, magnets and frame. Perhaps you could put a video together of your setup with as much detail as possible? If you already have, post it here and we'll take a look at it.

John K.

[John_Koorn]

Well...I thought they were flooded lead acids. I went in and asked for lawn/tractor batteries at NAPA...I saw the tabs and just assumed I would be able to pry those up and open it up. They look exactly like the ones I see in John's videos. The NAPA part # is 8223N.

I will check my strands for sure. I am betting it was just my magnet orientation being wrong on my wheel...not sure if you saw my post from about an hour ago...

Hi Branch,

It IS a flooded lead-acid, but "maintenance free" just means NAPA would rather you replace the battery than top up the electrolyte. http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/Ca...223_0399052202

Even so, you should be able to get the top off (you may have to break it off). Once you have that off you should see the covers for the cells that you MAY be able to unscrew so you can get to the cells. I've done this with a few "maintenance free" FLA's.

Hope it helps...

John K.

[Branch Gordon]

Well...I thought they were flooded lead acids. I went in and asked for lawn/tractor batteries at NAPA...I saw the tabs and just assumed I would be able to pry those up and open it up. They look exactly like the ones I see in John's videos. The NAPA part # is 8223N.

I will check my strands for sure. I am betting it was just my magnet orientation being wrong on my wheel...not sure if you saw my post from about an hour ago...

are those are sealed lead acids? hmm I thought you got the flooded lead acids. if they are SLA they are not meant to be opened..... no matter they should run plenty long.... here is the thing if you have a 14 ah battery and you are running it down 4 times even to 12 .2 then thats 40 AH to put 10 AH back in.... not right at all. please check your coil strands individually to make sure the strands are not shorted internally to each other. they are checked before they leave here, but please check again. if its shorted inside will send you new one. I am grasping at straws here. the only other thing that may be going on is you need a bit more current off the primary..... your current seems right but all batteries are different. depending upon plate construction it my be very resistant to pulse charging. again grasping at straws here.

Tom C

Tom C

[Tom C]

are those are sealed lead acids? hmm I thought you got the flooded lead acids. if they are SLA they are not meant to be opened..... no matter they should run plenty long.... here is the thing if you have a 14 ah battery and you are running it down 4 times even to 12 .2 then thats 40 AH to put 10 AH back in.... not right at all. please check your coil strands individually to make sure the strands are not shorted internally to each other. they are checked before they leave here, but please check again. if its shorted inside will send you new one. I am grasping at straws here. the only other thing that may be going on is you need a bit more current off the primary..... your current seems right but all batteries are different. depending upon plate construction it my be very resistant to pulse charging. again grasping at straws here.

Tom C

Tom C

[Branch Gordon]

I don't have a hydrometer. When I ran their initial tests on the CBA, they were both around 14AH. That was discharging down to 12V.

If I discharge down to 12.2V, I'm getting about 10AH out of them.

I actually cannot figure out how to open these NAPA batteries. I see they have two tabs on the sides where it looks like you can stick a prying tool in...but all it does it bend when I try...I didn't want to force too hard and break it. How do you open these?

@Branch your napa batteries have been run on your CBA to test for capacity, please tell me what it is for both batteries. also do you have a hydrometer so that you can tell us state of charge after running on your standard charger.@MrRonsen please do a load test on your batteries.. batteries can sit and capacity drops so it looks like they charge very fast, but in truth they are very sulfated so have no capacity. 17 AH battery can have only 1 AH of capacity depending upon how sulfated they are.Tom C

[Tom C]

@Branch your napa batteries have been run on your CBA to test for capacity, please tell me what it is for both batteries. also do you have a hydrometer so that you can tell us state of charge after running on your standard charger.@MrRonsen please do a load test on your batteries.. batteries can sit and capacity drops so it looks like they charge very fast, but in truth they are very sulfated so have no capacity. 17 AH battery can have only 1 AH of capacity depending upon how sulfated they are.Tom C

[Branch Gordon]

So...a little embarrassed. I'm not sure if I was drinking when I glued these magnets on this wheel or what...because I KNOW that they are supposed to be north facing out. But I'm holding up my compass to them right now, and the NORTH pointer on my compass is being attracted to the outside of the wheel...indicating that I have SOUTH facing out.

SO....haha. Maybe that's all this is... I just need to reverse the connections on the coil right? Instead of ungluing all these magnets..that would fix this up?

Here's a video so you can see what I've got going on: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEqGdsUoyzc

Hi Branch, I always adjust the coil gap for maximum RPM. The way I look at it is that at that point there is the least amount of drag and highest efficiency. I've been getting pretty good results that way.

I guess we can eliminate the coil and circuit, so that just leaves the wheel, magnets and frame. Perhaps you could put a video together of your setup with as much detail as possible? If you already have, post it here and we'll take a look at it.

John K.

[Kamen]

The way I look at it is that at that point there is the least amount of drag and highest efficiency.

John, this is probably a stupid question on my part but what do you mean by "drag"? John Bedini also used the same term "In the generator mode you should find very little drag on the machine." the quote is from here: http://www.energyscienceforum.com/sh...ll=1#post11358

How can we tell if the wheel has little or lots of drag?

Thanks,
Kamen

[John_Koorn]

Hi John-

Yep, my coil is from you guys and wound counter clockwise. Hooked into the kit as labeled. I am running in attraction.

I just got done de-soldering all my transistors and testing them. All checked out, so i have ruled that out.
I went ahead and soldered new ones from the extra supply you guys ship with the kit, so the board is back in working order.

Here is what I am really confused about man. A couple weeks ago in my other thread Tom C mentioned that I should be getting 1:1 right off the bat with this kit, and if not then something was setup or tuned incorrectly. However, it was always my understanding prior to that post that a number of test runs had to be done to condition, up to 20-30, in order to eventually see the gains and 1:1 charging. So I really would like clarification on this...if I am experiencing normal conditioning my having to use 4 primary charges to charge up one battery, or if there is defintely something wrong with my setup.

The other point i am really confused about is my coil gap. The method I read about for a long time involved holding a washer up to the bottom of the coil, and moving it away from the magnets until it dropped off. That spot was what i understood was the best spot for the coil. But then I have recently been told to adjust the coil gap for max rpm....which for me is as close as possible. As I move my coil away, my rpms drop, and i lose my sweet spot. I have a theory that if i removed my 470 ohm base resistors and replaced them with 100 ohm, and replaced my 250 ohm pot with a 1K pot, i could dial in a lower resistance with the increased coil gap, find the sweet spot again, and be fine. I jut cant get there with my current resistance options, and i dont know if thats the way to go.

I am honestly really frustrated with it...to have built it exactly according to the book and still be having problems. I am really hoping someone can really dig into this with me and help me get it right. I have time in abundance, and can supply video and photos.

Thank u for your help John and everyone!

Branch

Hi Branch, I always adjust the coil gap for maximum RPM. The way I look at it is that at that point there is the least amount of drag and highest efficiency. I've been getting pretty good results that way.

I guess we can eliminate the coil and circuit, so that just leaves the wheel, magnets and frame. Perhaps you could put a video together of your setup with as much detail as possible? If you already have, post it here and we'll take a look at it.

John K.