Bedini SG problem - Neon bulb lights once and nothing happens later.

[MrRonsen]

slighlty offtopic

i am lucky to see jb here,
the years go by, and we need success.. before jb leaves us!
so i am glad to see jb is here, typing:
"I can see that I need to go over all this again, and I will keep going over this with everybody until it works like mine. "

i have the teslagenx sg8 kit going on..(after experiences with my own single strand coils)
today i have the sg8 kit going on 8+1 teslagenx coil,
with only 4 strands yet..
and it hits the sky.. in few minutes
my 7Ah and 17Ah batteries, long standing unused around, standing several weeks/months,
hit 16.xx Volts while connected and charging by the sg8 kit.. (maybe they full already.. and not sulphating over time)
with 12.4V primary.. and then charging batts resting over 13.xx V..
wheel with regular ceramic magnets, 108 rpms only so far..

i have only 16 mags on my 57cm outerdiam wheel, will check out to put the 21 on them to get closed to jb as i could...

seeing DVD33, i recognized to use forced charging generator mode to get the initial charge up and
then use the other mode to push the rest with less input..
but the gen mode will charge primary too.. amazing stuff...

go on guys... we will catch it...

my arduino cap-dumper will be re-engaged
hopefully it will be close enough to a true comperator
otherwise i will have to go trough soldering an true pure electronic comperator

[Branch Gordon]

Hi John-

Yep, my coil is from you guys and wound counter clockwise. Hooked into the kit as labeled. I am running in attraction.

I just got done de-soldering all my transistors and testing them. All checked out, so i have ruled that out.
I went ahead and soldered new ones from the extra supply you guys ship with the kit, so the board is back in working order.

Here is what I am really confused about man. A couple weeks ago in my other thread Tom C mentioned that I should be getting 1:1 right off the bat with this kit, and if not then something was setup or tuned incorrectly. However, it was always my understanding prior to that post that a number of test runs had to be done to condition, up to 20-30, in order to eventually see the gains and 1:1 charging. So I really would like clarification on this...if I am experiencing normal conditioning my having to use 4 primary charges to charge up one battery, or if there is defintely something wrong with my setup.

The other point i am really confused about is my coil gap. The method I read about for a long time involved holding a washer up to the bottom of the coil, and moving it away from the magnets until it dropped off. That spot was what i understood was the best spot for the coil. But then I have recently been told to adjust the coil gap for max rpm....which for me is as close as possible. As I move my coil away, my rpms drop, and i lose my sweet spot. I have a theory that if i removed my 470 ohm base resistors and replaced them with 100 ohm, and replaced my 250 ohm pot with a 1K pot, i could dial in a lower resistance with the increased coil gap, find the sweet spot again, and be fine. I jut cant get there with my current resistance options, and i dont know if thats the way to go.

I am honestly really frustrated with it...to have built it exactly according to the book and still be having problems. I am really hoping someone can really dig into this with me and help me get it right. I have time in abundance, and can supply video and photos.

Thank u for your help John and everyone!

Branch

hi Branch, based on your draw current of 0.58A you should be using 11.6Ah batteries. (0.58x20=11.6) So 12 or 13Ah lawn/tractor batteries should be fine. You are running in attraction mode aren't you?

John K.

[John_Koorn]

Hi John K-

Its all good...I appreciate anyone's help.

My primary draw current is 580mA. I am using the Napa lawn/tractor batteries.

It currently takes me 4 fully charged primaries to charge up one battery.

hi Branch, based on your draw current of 0.58A you should be using 11.6Ah batteries. (0.58x20=11.6) So 12 or 13Ah lawn/tractor batteries should be fine. You are running in attraction mode aren't you?

John K.

[Gary Hammond]

Thx Gary! Is there a way for me to test these without removing them from this circuit?

It looks like from your video that you have the circuit board unhooked from the coil which is good because the trigger coil needs to be out of the circuit across the base emitter junction. Now just unsolder either end of the trigger diodes from the circuit and you can test the transistor base - emitter junctions with the transistors still soldered to the board.

[Branch Gordon]

Thx Gary! Is there a way for me to test these without removing them from this circuit?

Hi Branch,

This is normal!! You are testing the base -emitter resistance still installed in the circuit. The base diode junction is in parallel with the base emitter junction but reverse biased to it. With the leads one way you're reading the forward bias resistance (actually voltage drop) of the diode junction, and with the leads reversed you are reading the forward bias resistance (actually voltage drop) of the emitter -base junction.

[Gary Hammond]

Hi Branch,

This is normal!! You are testing the base -emitter resistance still installed in the circuit. The base diode junction is in parallel with the base emitter junction but reverse biased to it. With the leads one way you're reading the forward bias resistance (actually voltage drop) of the diode junction, and with the leads reversed you are reading the forward bias resistance (actually voltage drop) of the emitter -base junction.

[Branch Gordon]

I think my transistors might be bad. I shot a quick video of me testing. I am getting readings in both directions from the base to emitter. Does someone mind watching and confirming please?

http://youtu.be/vgZvHaX96Ss

[Branch Gordon]

Hi John K-

Its all good...I appreciate anyone's help.

My primary draw current is 580mA. I am using the Napa lawn/tractor batteries.

It currently takes me 4 fully charged primaries to charge up one battery.

Hi Branch (yeah, probably not the John you wanted to respond),

You just have to size your batteries to that kit and you should have no problem getting at least 1:1. What's your draw current when it's tuned in attraction mode and mode 1? Just multiply that by 20 and you have the battery size you need in amp hours.

John K.

[Ed_Morbus]

Thanks John K
Can you make an example of how to calculate

[John_Koorn]

Hi John-

Thank you for the clarification. I have been running the 4 trans. Experimenter Kit and was curious if I should expect to get 1:1 charging with it, in mode 1, without using a cap pulser?

That is what I am working towards, so if I need to upgrade to an 8 trans board and 8 filar coil, and build a comparator circuit then that is what i will do. Otherwise I will keep conditioning in mode 1 until I see 1:1.

Hi Branch (yeah, probably not the John you wanted to respond),

You just have to size your batteries to that kit and you should have no problem getting at least 1:1. What's your draw current when it's tuned in attraction mode and mode 1? Just multiply that by 20 and you have the battery size you need in amp hours.

John K.

[Branch Gordon]

Hi John-

Thank you for the clarification. I have been running the 4 trans. Experimenter Kit and was curious if I should expect to get 1:1 charging with it, in mode 1, without using a cap pulser?

That is what I am working towards, so if I need to upgrade to an 8 trans board and 8 filar coil, and build a comparator circuit then that is what i will do. Otherwise I will keep conditioning in mode 1 until I see 1:1.

To All,
The SSG machine in the DVD 33 is set to certain values, it would be the same machine I ran at the show. The Main coil is 130 feet long 8 twisted pairs 7 number 20 wires and one trigger number 23 wire.
The base resistance is 470 ohms with a series resistor of 12 ohms. No neon lights as they are not needed. the magnets are spaced for 21 magnets north facing to the coil, however the machine is in attraction mode only to perform the three functions. In the generator mode you should find very little drag on the machine. The transistors should not even get hot at all, in any mode. If the machine is in repulsion then expect heat and not good charging. The machine is set up for 12 volts only!!!. I did not run the machine here at 24 volts but with a mod to the coil you could. Yes I think I draw the diode backwards then later corrected it. The machine here is running at about 2 amps. One thing I might point out is in generator mode the machine acts more like a G-Field generator if it is built properly. John K can help with this as he was here during the tests. Generator mode is a forced charge to get the battery up to voltage quickly then revert back to normal charging once you get past the impedance change. We all need to be on the same page here if the machine is going to work right as it did during the show. I can see that I need to go over all this again, and I will keep going over this with everybody until it works like mine. I have used this machine all day long in generator mode. You can not run it off a wall supply and get the same results. In generator mode it wants to back charge the primary battery as could be seen at the show. In generator mode using liner regulators with a capacitor in front of the regulator it can be set to only push the battery to 15 volts and that is where you want it. So lets get this machine to work right and then you can make it your way.

If You need a part then call me and I will try to get you the right device if I have it.John

[John_Bedini]

To All,
The SSG machine in the DVD 33 is set to certain values, it would be the same machine I ran at the show. The Main coil is 130 feet long 8 twisted pairs 7 number 20 wires and one trigger number 23 wire.
The base resistance is 470 ohms with a series resistor of 12 ohms. No neon lights as they are not needed. the magnets are spaced for 21 magnets north facing to the coil, however the machine is in attraction mode only to perform the three functions. In the generator mode you should find very little drag on the machine. The transistors should not even get hot at all, in any mode. If the machine is in repulsion then expect heat and not good charging. The machine is set up for 12 volts only!!!. I did not run the machine here at 24 volts but with a mod to the coil you could. Yes I think I draw the diode backwards then later corrected it. The machine here is running at about 2 amps. One thing I might point out is in generator mode the machine acts more like a G-Field generator if it is built properly. John K can help with this as he was here during the tests. Generator mode is a forced charge to get the battery up to voltage quickly then revert back to normal charging once you get past the impedance change. We all need to be on the same page here if the machine is going to work right as it did during the show. I can see that I need to go over all this again, and I will keep going over this with everybody until it works like mine. I have used this machine all day long in generator mode. You can not run it off a wall supply and get the same results. In generator mode it wants to back charge the primary battery as could be seen at the show. In generator mode using liner regulators with a capacitor in front of the regulator it can be set to only push the battery to 15 volts and that is where you want it. So lets get this machine to work right and then you can make it your way.

If You need a part then call me and I will try to get you the right device if I have it.John

[John_Koorn]

AndBirch,

you our also need to make sure you are running the machine in attraction mode as you don't want any drag on the wheel.

John K.

[Dave Wing]

Even though your transistor seems to be working fine, it can still be damaged and give an indication that it is ok when it is not. I have seen damaged transistors appear to switch fine but do not charge the secondary battery very well... Don't be afraid to put a new transistor in there.


The best practice is to keep many new ones on hand for experiment and situations like this. Find a Potentiometer this will aid in adjusting and tuning the machine to get it to run properly, I recommend purchasing two potentiometers one from 0-100ohm and one 0-1000 ohm, minimum 2-3 watts. Run both in series on the trigger this will give you a good feel for what base resistance does to the operation of the machine and offer you flexibility, with the best of both worlds when it comes to tuning... a fairly fine and also course adjustment.

[AndBirch]

I did connect the charge battery and I did check that the transistor never was (even) warn. I will try to find a 50ohm resistor and report to you what's happening ?