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  • min2oly
    replied
    Hi Allen,
    I have to say, I can do all the justification of a wobble wheel still getting 1:1 and I can tune it just fine blah blah blah... This straight wheel makes all the difference in being able to tune EASILY.

    Any "distraction" someone brings up in this thread PALES in comparison to the distractions going on in my own head 24/7.

    I am interested in your dump switch and timing mechanism. Post it whenever it's convenient for you - LMK. I can take good notes for when I give it a go here.
    Thanks!
    Patrick A.


    Originally posted by Allen R. View Post
    Hi Patrick , everyone. Thanks. Totally jealousy over the straight and true wheel you have there. the wood wheel looks good. I suggest cutting the wood to fit the inner diameter of the wheel and so it has to press in. Lie it down on a known flat surface then use screws to secur it. Perhaps that will help true it easier.

    Did I calculate 71ma amp draw on the input? Is that normally where you run your input at? Just curious as I run mine at 120 and 220~ma there are two very prominant spots there on my wheel. Sounds lime I get the new wheel whipped up. My wheel is somewhere between junkpile and not nearly close enoufh to the smooth one you show later. This new one must be lest redneck engineer and more scotty engineer. Im getting excited to see the big eight running!

    Thanks to everyone. If Im not on for a bit it doesnt mean I dont see the posts. Ihave something I would like to see you try later when you get a chance. It has to do with backpopping through a gen coil back the run battery. I guess you could do it to a second battery. The gen coil will be placed in a position around the wheel so when the backpop event happenes the wheel gets a boost from the extra coil and the recieving battery still gets the charge. I have an old video that shows this being done and the effect is interesting. You see way higher voltages. I was using a dump switch i made that the turning wheel activated during motor off time. That setup didnt seem to take away from recover. It did add high voltage that ran all through the circuit plus it increased rotor speed. I will place it back on youtube and give you access to it if and when you might be interested. I do not want to distract you.

    Thanks
    al

    Leave a comment:


  • Quigon10101
    replied
    Originally posted by min2oly View Post
    I'm going to see if I can get it to 16.5V
    Patrick
    Friend if you happen to have in your possession a hydrometer for checking batteries I highly recommend that you check the specific gravity of the electrolytes in each cell of that battery. I think 12.5 sp. g. would be a good minimum limit.

    Leave a comment:


  • John_Koorn
    replied
    Originally posted by min2oly View Post
    That was it, got it down to one spike/magnet. I just had to pull the coil away from the wheel a tiny bit...
    I'm going to see if I can get it to 16.5V then I'll take it down to 12.5 overnight and start out fresh in the AM. This battery might actually be a very good candidate for many experiments. I'll put it through a few runs before deciding to purchase the garden bat.
    Now, any suggestions on quick-n-dirty measure of IN vs OUT? Anyone?
    Kind Regards,
    Patrick
    Hey Patrick,

    I intended to write up a long explanation of a quick way to measure COP, but hey you know how life gets in the way

    Anyway, the short version is that it's based on JB's method and goes something like this:

    1. Charge battery up to 15.3v and note draw current from primary with analog meter.
    2. Discharge secondary battery for 1 hour at the same rate as primary draw from step 1. Helps if you have a CBA unit or similar so you can dial in the draw current.
    3. Recharge secondary again to 15.3v. Note minutes taken to recharge.

    To calculate COP, divide 60 by minutes from step 3 for the electrical COP.
    For the total COP add the mechanical energy from the wheel as well.

    let me know how it works out for you.

    John K.

    Edit: Make sure your primary battery is fully charged before starting.
    Last edited by John_Koorn; 05-20-2014, 03:46 AM. Reason: Added info

    Leave a comment:


  • Allen R.
    replied
    Hi Patrick , everyone. Thanks. Totally jealousy over the straight and true wheel you have there. the wood wheel looks good. I suggest cutting the wood to fit the inner diameter of the wheel and so it has to press in. Lie it down on a known flat surface then use screws to secur it. Perhaps that will help true it easier.

    Did I calculate 71ma amp draw on the input? Is that normally where you run your input at? Just curious as I run mine at 120 and 220~ma there are two very prominant spots there on my wheel. Sounds lime I get the new wheel whipped up. My wheel is somewhere between junkpile and not nearly close enoufh to the smooth one you show later. This new one must be lest redneck engineer and more scotty engineer. Im getting excited to see the big eight running!

    Thanks to everyone. If Im not on for a bit it doesnt mean I dont see the posts. Ihave something I would like to see you try later when you get a chance. It has to do with backpopping through a gen coil back the run battery. I guess you could do it to a second battery. The gen coil will be placed in a position around the wheel so when the backpop event happenes the wheel gets a boost from the extra coil and the recieving battery still gets the charge. I have an old video that shows this being done and the effect is interesting. You see way higher voltages. I was using a dump switch i made that the turning wheel activated during motor off time. That setup didnt seem to take away from recover. It did add high voltage that ran all through the circuit plus it increased rotor speed. I will place it back on youtube and give you access to it if and when you might be interested. I do not want to distract you.

    Thanks
    al
    Originally posted by min2oly View Post
    That was it, got it down to one spike/magnet. I just had to pull the coil away from the wheel a tiny bit...
    I'm going to see if I can get it to 16.5V then I'll take it down to 12.5 overnight and start out fresh in the AM. This battery might actually be a very good candidate for many experiments. I'll put it through a few runs before deciding to purchase the garden bat.
    Now, any suggestions on quick-n-dirty measure of IN vs OUT? Anyone?
    Kind Regards,
    Patrick
    Last edited by Allen R.; 05-19-2014, 10:39 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • min2oly
    replied
    That was it, got it down to one spike/magnet. I just had to pull the coil away from the wheel a tiny bit...
    I'm going to see if I can get it to 16.5V then I'll take it down to 12.5 overnight and start out fresh in the AM. This battery might actually be a very good candidate for many experiments. I'll put it through a few runs before deciding to purchase the garden bat.
    Now, any suggestions on quick-n-dirty measure of IN vs OUT? Anyone?
    Kind Regards,
    Patrick

    Leave a comment:


  • min2oly
    replied
    You're right Guy - sorry Allen, I claim age and lack of sleep :-)

    Guy... coil... :-) pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. I need to rewind that coil to copy you again as is, it only has 3volts! need the C shape.

    Got the 8-TGB all plugged in now. Pushing toyota bat to 16 volts @ 573+/-mA, nice! I'm still at two spikes per magnet pass, need to re-adjust the coil further away. Also, the amp draw bumps around a bit. need to double check magnet spacing and/or break out the old "gauss meter" a-la yahoo group. and find the bad boy magnet - put him on the bench and put in a team player.

    Kind Regards,
    Patrick A.

    Originally posted by guyzzemf View Post
    Patrick
    we both herd clicking it was Allen R that called it [ a lose magnet] good call
    guy

    what going on with the flat air coil ,i see it going to a bread board?????????

    Leave a comment:


  • guyzzemf
    replied
    Patrick
    we both herd clicking it was Allen R that called it [ a lose magnet] good call
    guy

    what going on with the flat air coil ,i see it going to a bread board?????????

    Leave a comment:


  • min2oly
    replied
    It was a long weekend and I did not get much accomplished - in the way of progress.

    Here is my fail: (vid is still processing - check back, gotta go...)



    Lucky to have craigs list here and good people wanting to unload things...
    Kind Regards,
    Patrick A.

    Leave a comment:


  • min2oly
    replied
    Patience padawan,
    "So certain are you, you must feel the force all around." I sense the force is strong w/ you, but you must do the work. (light hearted :-)

    Thanks for the tips, I'll touch on things that work as I go.

    Kind Regards,
    Patrick A.


    Originally posted by Quigon10101 View Post
    Greetings. Peace and happiness to you my friends. After reading the thread in a hurry I'm now going to barge in and list a few things I've learnt and a few "philosophical" ideas.

    - Attraction mode is much better than repulsion.
    - Make sure wheel bearings are in top shape, lubricated with the best oil available.
    - Don't attach anything extra that adds weight or inertia, keep the mechanical parts simple.
    - Keep iron objects like nails if using wooden frame away from magnets. Every little bit accumulates by the end.
    - Find a "electret" capacitor. I've observed that some motor running / starting capacitors that have served long tend to develop the effect.
    - Use germanium diodes where possible. Low voltage drop.
    - Use thick wires and keep them short.
    - Horizontal deflection transistors taken from old TV sets work nicely for me.
    - Shaping the output circuit is entirely up to you. If you intend to energize and have large batteries then a full wave rectifier bridge is better at the output instead of a single HV diode.

    Last but not least, I still think that the "trick" is all in those little, ignored neon bulbs! Can you say Energy from the Vacuum!?

    Happy building and cheers.

    Edit: I have a request, something I can not test on my own right now as I don't have a pancake coil. If you have a pancake coil, would you please check a "theory"? Place it facing the magnets somewhere and put a load across it, then observe if it slows down the wheel due to Lenz effect, if at all.

    Leave a comment:


  • Quigon10101
    replied
    Greetings. Peace and happiness to you my friends. After reading the thread in a hurry I'm now going to barge in and list a few things I've learnt and a few "philosophical" ideas.

    - Attraction mode is much better than repulsion.
    - Make sure wheel bearings are in top shape, lubricated with the best oil available.
    - Don't attach anything extra that adds weight or inertia, keep the mechanical parts simple.
    - Keep iron objects like nails if using wooden frame away from magnets. Every little bit accumulates by the end.
    - Find a "electret" capacitor. I've observed that some motor running / starting capacitors that have served long tend to develop the effect.
    - Use germanium diodes where possible. Low voltage drop.
    - Use thick wires and keep them short.
    - Horizontal deflection transistors taken from old TV sets work nicely for me.
    - Shaping the output circuit is entirely up to you. If you intend to energize and have large batteries then a full wave rectifier bridge is better at the output instead of a single HV diode.

    Last but not least, I still think that the "trick" is all in those little, ignored neon bulbs! Can you say Energy from the Vacuum!?

    Happy building and cheers.

    Edit: I have a request, something I can not test on my own right now as I don't have a pancake coil. If you have a pancake coil, would you please check a "theory"? Place it facing the magnets somewhere and put a load across it, then observe if it slows down the wheel due to Lenz effect, if at all.
    Last edited by Quigon10101; 05-19-2014, 12:28 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • BobZilla
    replied
    Heh not all 50 worked out for the best though.

    I want to point you to an old thread where I first introduced these concepts. I went on to experiment with many different things around the basic idea and from that work I learned a lot more than I knew when I wrote it, I had just begun to pursue it. This was done on a wheel not SS but the method was basically the same. Really all I want you to see is the explanation of my idea, never mind all the comments and banter.

    I had really hoped that people would catch on too it but I don't think it was really understood what I was talking about and the post fell to it's grave as most do ;-)

    It's just easier point to this instead of hash it all over again.


    http://www.energyscienceforum.com/sh...?t=1110&page=2

    *EDIT*
    By the way the timing example in that post is not the same as in the other video. That is one of the other many variations I played with. I also learned that I could switch down to 5ms, anyway like I said this was when I started out with it not the final conclusions.
    Last edited by BobZilla; 05-18-2014, 09:13 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • min2oly
    replied
    Hi Bob,
    this discovery is most definitely deserving of it's own thread. Thanks so much for sharing it here though, feel free to talk more on it as you see fit and/or anything else that comes to mind... Nice work! It can be very exhausting, most people find it difficult to do even 10 good solid runs let alone all the work everyone is posting on this forum, and 50 different patterns even. Your mind must run free as the wind, The mother of innovation...
    Kind Regards,
    Patrick A.



    Originally posted by BobZilla View Post
    Glad you liked it Patrick. Yea it does sound cool huh. If I tune the radio slightly different you really hear the cap whining up and down and it gets crazy. That system has been shelved for quite some time now. I was playing with that just before I built my 2 coil wheel and once I got that running it took all of my attention.

    There was a great improvement between using that method and not using it. There are a lot of variables to play with in that system. I tried changing the caps with larger and smaller capacity, the batteries themselves larger/smaller, the dump pattern. I actually tested at least 50 different patterns to explore different aspects but the one in the video was simple enough for others to understand what I was doing so I used that. It was pretty simple compared to some of the stuff I was doing. Since I am using a micro controller it is all easily changed with programing. I might have to break that system back out and do a post with some different configurations.

    I had thought about rectifying back to the primary but the problem is there is juice running both ways so cutting off one direction will stop the machine. The caps seem to do ok with it, I use them as a sort of buffer ahead of the primary. They have a much different impedance than the battery does and that helps. Anyway I don't want to hijack your thread. I can make my own to discuss this thing.

    NoFear,
    I agree with all that Patrick said and showed.
    Personally I always desulphate with Radiant on salvage batteries.I'm sure you have seen my other posts on this subject as there have been many.

    On a lightly sulphated battery cap dumps can work just fine. It really depends on what you want the battery for, a pos or a neg. If you intend to use it as a primary on your machines than cap dump it so it can run as a primary, if you only use it for storage to run loads than keep it radiant.

    My method for badly neglected salvage batteries is to always use radiant until the battery starts to behave normally for the most part. Then I will switch to cap dump if I want it to be a primary.

    Leave a comment:


  • aln
    replied
    Originally posted by BobZilla View Post
    NoFear,
    I agree with all that Patrick said and showed.
    Personally I always desulphate with Radiant on salvage batteries.I'm sure you have seen my other posts on this subject as there have been many.

    On a lightly sulphated battery cap dumps can work just fine. It really depends on what you want the battery for, a pos or a neg. If you intend to use it as a primary on your machines than cap dump it so it can run as a primary, if you only use it for storage to run loads than keep it radiant.

    My method for badly neglected salvage batteries is to always use radiant until the battery starts to behave normally for the most part. Then I will switch to cap dump if I want it to be a primary.
    Ditto to Bob's method.

    Pats circuit will also work very nicely as the voltage will rise to what is necessary (up to 115v) to move the sulfate ions back into the solution and off the plates. I use a 25uf cap though (roughly 1 amp). Al

    Leave a comment:


  • BobZilla
    replied
    Bob,
    That's nice! I'll have to digest it some more. you have a very good grasp w/ manipulating these ckts. I like the sound those dumps make, reminds me of the mother ship on close encounters of the 3rd kind. I wonder if those spikes need to get rectified before heading back to the primary? I wonder if the primary is fighting w/ them? Just off the cuff thoughts. Did you happen to time how much longer of a run time you got out of the primary vs w/o the mod?
    Thanks for sharing this,
    Patrick A.
    Glad you liked it Patrick. Yea it does sound cool huh. If I tune the radio slightly different you really hear the cap whining up and down and it gets crazy. That system has been shelved for quite some time now. I was playing with that just before I built my 2 coil wheel and once I got that running it took all of my attention.

    There was a great improvement between using that method and not using it. There are a lot of variables to play with in that system. I tried changing the caps with larger and smaller capacity, the batteries themselves larger/smaller, the dump pattern. I actually tested at least 50 different patterns to explore different aspects but the one in the video was simple enough for others to understand what I was doing so I used that. It was pretty simple compared to some of the stuff I was doing. Since I am using a micro controller it is all easily changed with programing. I might have to break that system back out and do a post with some different configurations.

    I had thought about rectifying back to the primary but the problem is there is juice running both ways so cutting off one direction will stop the machine. The caps seem to do ok with it, I use them as a sort of buffer ahead of the primary. They have a much different impedance than the battery does and that helps. Anyway I don't want to hijack your thread. I can make my own to discuss this thing.

    NoFear,
    I agree with all that Patrick said and showed.
    Personally I always desulphate with Radiant on salvage batteries.I'm sure you have seen my other posts on this subject as there have been many.

    On a lightly sulphated battery cap dumps can work just fine. It really depends on what you want the battery for, a pos or a neg. If you intend to use it as a primary on your machines than cap dump it so it can run as a primary, if you only use it for storage to run loads than keep it radiant.

    My method for badly neglected salvage batteries is to always use radiant until the battery starts to behave normally for the most part. Then I will switch to cap dump if I want it to be a primary.

    Leave a comment:


  • min2oly
    replied
    That's gotta be a bit frustrating. Can I ask, do you find that your batteries are desulfating at all? I ask because I'm wondering if your quandary is with whether or not the batteries are desulfating at all, or just w/ which method works best...

    to answer your question specifically about whether or not the oscillator is necessary for desulfation, No, it is not necessary. you can fill a cap up to the same levels w/ any method you can think of and dump it to your battery to obtain desulfation. Here is a very simple method using those holes in the wall:


    "They" would love it if you did nothing.
    Kind Regards,
    Patrick A.


    Originally posted by Nofear View Post
    Allen, Patrick..Bob.
    I have built wheels and few SS circuit and still can't find my desulfation test results very conclusive. I find that studying "desulfating batteries" very tricky. For the simple reason that I can't find a bunch of batteries that have degraded in exactly the same fashion or that have the same level of sulfation. Any comparative study trying to find which method is best will have questionable results/conclusions, so instead the results are somewhat anecdotal.
    And what keep the confusion alive is I have read or heard people, like Peter Lindeman saying that impulses of an inductive nature are better suited for dissulfation, whereas impulses of a capacitive nature are better at charging batteries.
    In addition to that, and related to using cap dumps for dissulfation, it begs the question that if cap dump is a preferred way to smashing way the sulfation then why is a Bedini oscillator circuit necessary? Can't the caps be charged with a regular power supply and then dumped on a battery?
    All these are interesting tests, but what bothers me is the lack of consistency in "bad" batteries. So I end up not doing anything
    NoFear

    PS - how about good batteries, have you tried doing these tests w/ good batteries...(rhetorical)
    Last edited by min2oly; 05-17-2014, 08:38 AM.

    Leave a comment:

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