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Bedini SG Monopole with Capacitor Discharge

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  • #16
    Originally posted by bluestix View Post
    I still don't see how the primary coil on the SG is any different then the primary coils on an SSG. If a spike forms in the primary coil of an SSG circuit then the spike has to be discharged to a battery to prevent damage to the neon and transistor.

    What is different about the primary of the SG that it isn't at risk of damage from the spike? Is it dissipated through the secondary?

    I am going to build an 8 filar solid state with cap dump. I already have an 8 filar coil running with an 8 circuit SSG board. It works pretty well.

    I am wondering how to modify it to include cap dump.

    Can I put a bridge rectifier in place of the secondary battery?

    I was thinking about only using four of the coils as power coils and hooking the other four up to the bridge rectifier like in the SG circuit posted in this thread. What about the power coils though? They still need to be connected to a secondary of some kind right?
    1- The full patent monopole is not the Schoolgirl circuit. John had to break the machine into parts so it would pass the patent office. It is the charging "process" what the machine does with the coil that is important. longitudinal pulses
    2- you want the spike, you want it to go everywhere, that is the important part of this technology. the spike contains the radiant. that is why we dont use power supplies on the front end, it kills them.
    3- Bridge rectifier to the cap, dump to the battery
    4- Yes the power coils need to be hooked up.

    Tom C


    experimental Kits, chargers and solar trackers

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Tom C View Post
      1- The full patent monopole is not the Schoolgirl circuit. John had to break the machine into parts so it would pass the patent office. It is the charging "process" what the machine does with the coil that is important. longitudinal pulses
      2- you want the spike, you want it to go everywhere, that is the important part of this technology. the spike contains the radiant. that is why we dont use power supplies on the front end, it kills them.
      3- Bridge rectifier to the cap, dump to the battery
      4- Yes the power coils need to be hooked up.

      Tom C
      I don't think you are understanding what I am asking.

      The circuit posted in the beginning of this thread shows two main coils. The primary and the secondary.

      The primary coil is connected to the primary battery and the primary transistor. Exactly the same as it would be in an SSG circuit. The only difference I can see is that in this circuit there is no diode attached to the primary coil directed to a secondary battery and there is no neon light to give warning when the second battery is not connected.

      My question is... does a spike form in the primary coil? If yes then what prevents the spike in the primary coil from damaging the primary transistor?

      I am pretty sure I don't want the spike to 'go everywhere'. Only to a cap bank or battery. If it goes to the transistors then as I understand it they will stop working. I am asking this question repeatedly because I am going to modify a circuit that I already have working and I don't want to blow any of the transistors.

      Another question... when I hookup secondary coils do they each have to be connected to their own bridge rectifier? Or can they all be connected to the same one?


      Also, I have used a power supply in place of the primary battery on the SSG circuit and it works fine. It charges the battery. It does change the wave form on the oscope though. Still shows the spike but the 'h' wave shape is different.
      Last edited by bluestix; 11-26-2012, 03:08 PM.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by bluestix View Post
        I don't think you are understanding what I am asking.

        The circuit posted in the beginning of this thread shows two main coils. The primary and the secondary.

        The primary coil is connected to the primary battery and the primary transistor. Exactly the same as it would be in an SSG circuit. The only difference I can see is that in this circuit there is no diode attached to the primary coil directed to a secondary battery and there is no neon light to give warning when the second battery is not connected.

        My question is... does a spike form in the primary coil? If yes then what prevents the spike in the primary coil from damaging the primary transistor?

        I am pretty sure I don't want the spike to 'go everywhere'. Only to a cap bank or battery. If it goes to the transistors then as I understand it they will stop working. I am asking this question repeatedly because I am going to modify a circuit that I already have working and I don't want to blow any of the transistors.

        Another question... when I hookup secondary coils do they each have to be connected to their own bridge rectifier? Or can they all be connected to the same one?


        Also, I have used a power supply in place of the primary battery on the SSG circuit and it works fine. It charges the battery. It does change the wave form on the oscope though. Still shows the spike but the 'h' wave shape is different.
        1- the collapse of the primary is absorbed by the secondary. any Back emf from the coil will go to ground. look at the line after S1 on the primary wire. the circuit works as built, all needed protections for the parts are built in.

        2- the radiant goes to the primary battery and to the secondary battery. its in the spike. you do want it to go both ways it charges the primary battery, increasing run time.

        3- they can go either way.

        4- you CAN use a power supply, it MAY work. that is not the point of the monopole, the point is to charge more on the output than on the input. I will not ever recommend a power supply on the primary, ever except maybe to see if the circuit works. you will not know how well it is really charging if you have unlimited power on the front end. part of the tuning is to get more out from the front. to charge 2 3 or 4 batteries for 1.

        Tom C


        experimental Kits, chargers and solar trackers

        Comment


        • #19
          Hi,

          I had popped the opto out the other day to see how high the cap would charge and it didn't fry anything, so I thought I'd use the scope to see what was happening in the primary if I disconnected the charging battery. I hooked up a 560 uf cap in parallel to slow the charging down so if things got out of hand I would have more time to deal with it.

          I started with the 560 cap in parallel but everything else as per the schematic and here's a scope shot of the BD243c transistor with the probe on the collector and ground on the emitter:

          normal with 560 cap.jpg

          This is at 50 volts per division, so it's running around 40 volts. I put the multimeter on the cap and it would fluctuate between 15.6 and 16.8 volts.

          So I took a lead off the charging battery to see what would happen in the primary. The cap charged to around 140 volts and stopped, so that seems the max that this setup will go. With the cap charged to around 135 volts I took this shot with the scope still on the primary transistor to see what was happening:

          Ch disc with 560 cap.jpg

          Again it's at 50 volts per division and as you can see it's now spiking around 150 volts, plus or minus. With the battery disconnected and nowhere to dump the cap, the voltage in the secondary increased and wasn't able to dampen the spike from the primary as well as previously. I didn't run it like this for more than a minute or two, but the transistor didn't seem to get abnormally hot in that time.

          My 2 cents only, but if the neons are made to light at 90 volts, then if a lead comes off the secondary it might not be a bad idea to have one to protect the base transistor. I don't know how long the transistor will last if it's being hit with 150 volt spikes, but with a neon to protect it the neon will light up and buy you more time.

          Plus it will let you know something's wrong and the cap isn't dumping like it should, when you might not otherwise notice. You could have a problem with the timer or the opto and the cap wouldn't be dumping, so it would charge to 140 volts and the wheel would be running and everything seems fine, so unless you had a meter or scoped hooked up you might not even know it had a problem. But if the neon is there it will let you know right away and maybe save some parts and aggravation.

          Robert

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by John_Koorn View Post
            Here is the circuit of the Bedini SSG Monopole with Capacitor Discharge.
            [ATTACH=CONFIG]15[/ATTACH]
            Hi John K.
            Can you tell me please how this circuit looks when i have a 8 filiar coil?
            Thanks

            Comment


            • #21
              Hello JK Tom C, and all,

              The Name of this Thread is confusing "Bedini SSG Monopole with Capacitor Discharge" is confusing when the first Pic that JK posted is a Bedini SG with Cap Discharge.

              SG = School Girl
              plain jane SG = bifilar coil with just a Transistor, NO charging battery, is first Pic JB posted to Keely net

              SG with Capacitor Discharge = 3 filer coil with the 3rd pickup strand hooked to a FWBR and Cap with a 555 or other type trigger, to dump the cap with a opto and transistor or mosfet or SCR. This Is the first pic that JK posted on this thread. Can have a 4th or 5th + pickup strands each on FWBR's, to help fill up the cap even faster.

              SSG = Simplified School Girl = bifilar coil with Diode off the collector direct to the charging battery, and can be expanded with more coil strands or coils, with a transistor and diode on each drive strand, and output summed into 1 charging battery = Master Slave Muilty Strand / Muilty Coil SSG

              SSG with Capacitor Discharge = a bifilar or muilty filar coil, with each drive strand having a transistor with a Diode off each collector summed direct to the Cap, with a 555 or other type trigger, to dump the cap with a opto and transistor or mosfet or SCR. (NOT quite the same circuit as a SG with Cap Discharge)

              If possible, please change the name of this Thread to "SG Monopole with Capacitor Discharge" to re move the confusion.....

              then start another thread Named "SSG Monopole with Capacitor Discharge" and show a Schematic of that version circuit, so this specific version can be discussed

              If i am correct, this "SSG with Capacitor Discharge" is the version that JB showed in the Last video with the comparator trigger.....
              Last edited by RS_; 12-12-2012, 09:05 AM.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by forelle View Post
                Hi John K.
                Can you tell me please how this circuit looks when i have a 8 filiar coil?
                Thanks
                Forelle, you will have one trigger winding, six power windings each with their own transistor circuit and one recovery winding going to the FWBR.

                John K.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by RS_ View Post
                  Hello JK Tom C, and all,

                  The Name of this Thread is confusing "Bedini SSG Monopole with Capacitor Discharge" is confusing when the first Pic that JK posted is a Bedini SG with Cap Discharge.

                  SG = School Girl
                  plain jane SG = bifilar coil with just a Transistor, NO charging battery, is first Pic JB posted to Keely net

                  SG with Capacitor Discharge = 3 filer coil with the 3rd pickup strand hooked to a FWBR and Cap with a 555 or other type trigger, to dump the cap with a opto and transistor or mosfet or SCR. This Is the first pic that JK posted on this thread. Can have a 4th or 5th + pickup strands each on FWBR's, to help fill up the cap even faster.

                  SSG = Simplified School Girl = bifilar coil with Diode off the collector direct to the charging battery, and can be expanded with more coil strands or coils, with a transistor and diode on each drive strand, and output summed into 1 charging battery = Master Slave Muilty Strand / Muilty Coil SSG

                  SSG with Capacitor Discharge = a bifilar or muilty filar coil, with each drive strand having a transistor with a Diode off each collector summed direct to the Cap, with a 555 or other type trigger, to dump the cap with a opto and transistor or mosfet or SCR. (NOT quite the same circuit as a SG with Cap Discharge)

                  If possible, please change the name of this Thread to "SG Monopole with Capacitor Discharge" to re move the confusion.....

                  then start another thread Named "SSG Monopole with Capacitor Discharge" and show a Schematic of that version circuit, so this specific version can be discussed

                  If i am correct, this "SSG with Capacitor Discharge" is the version that JB showed in the Last video with the comparator trigger.....
                  Hi RS_,

                  I changed the name of this thread. Feel free to start another thread on the "SSG with Capacitor Discharge".

                  John K.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    JK,

                    Thanks,

                    Just trying to clear up the different version names...... as there are so many different ways this technology works, it's hard to keep up with them all and understand the differences.....

                    Will make up a Sch. for the SSG / Cap discharge version, and then start a new thread.......

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      monopolcircuit.jpgHi John K. and All

                      I found this circuit diagram, it's vary simillar to the one that you have posted at the binging of this thread, can you please tell me what are the advantages and disadvantages between the two circuits.
                      I am taking a brake from the home Reno's and would love to make this my next project!...
                      PS how's the super-pole wheel going?, love to see some-more clips.

                      George N.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Tom C View Post
                        1- The full patent monopole is not the Schoolgirl circuit. John had to break the machine into parts so it would pass the patent office. It is the charging "process" what the machine does with the coil that is important. longitudinal pulses
                        2- you want the spike, you want it to go everywhere, that is the important part of this technology. the spike contains the radiant. that is why we dont use power supplies on the front end, it kills them.
                        3- Bridge rectifier to the cap, dump to the battery
                        4- Yes the power coils need to be hooked up.

                        Tom C
                        Hi Tom C
                        do i understand this right,2- you want the spike, you want it to go everywhere, that is the important part of this technology. the spike contains the radiant. that is why we dont use power supplies on the front end, it kills them.
                        So i have to use allways a drivebattery when i want a COP above 1.
                        Thanks and a nice day
                        Oliver

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Georgey Nico View Post
                          [ATTACH=CONFIG]1724[/ATTACH]Hi John K. and All

                          I found this circuit diagram, it's vary simillar to the one that you have posted at the binging of this thread, can you please tell me what are the advantages and disadvantages between the two circuits.
                          I am taking a brake from the home Reno's and would love to make this my next project!...
                          PS how's the super-pole wheel going?, love to see some-more clips.

                          George N.
                          This one triggers the + this is bad


                          we should instead - potentialize w/ + and trigger the - for best charging. this is good

                          -KR
                          Patrick

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            the secondary is picking up 'Whatever' spike that would be present at the primary (recall its a1:1 winding ratio) and this is Capacito-Inductivily reflected
                            at the Secondary.
                            just my littel scientific explanation here..
                            Rgds,
                            Faraday88.
                            'Wisdom comes from living out of the knowledge.'

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Very good question i appriceate..!
                              hint: Look at the Battery and this may answer your question.
                              Rgds,
                              Faraday88.
                              'Wisdom comes from living out of the knowledge.'

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Hi All,

                                Please study what is CONSTANT CURRENT SOURCE..this will do you a world of good before you even start on the RADIANT mode.
                                Rgds,
                                Faraday88.
                                'Wisdom comes from living out of the knowledge.'

                                Comment

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