John Bedini states - radiantly charge battery can be used as the primary with the SG

[min2oly]

Hi Patrick,
Thanks for the information but i think there is more to what JB stated and we need to read between the lines when he talked about the Separate Trigger coil... Reason: the Trifilar coil is based on Tesla's Pancake coil geometry, if you read JB's patent #7711990' Circuits and related methods for Charging a Battery', if you can understand the two configurations of the Coaxial cable and the concentric tube diagrams in it that will give you the idea about the separate trigger requirement in the Circuit topology.
Years ago Peter mentioned about two methods of generating the Radiant Electricity, one Inductive and the other Capacitive, these two methods are opposite to what they produce as Radiant fractions of the Electricity. the swapping of the Batteries is allowed by Capacitive Fractionation while the Inductive does not allow it, you need to convert it in order to back feed into the source battery, and that is where you can either use a Capacitive dump or use an Inverter to back feed while drawing power from the Inductivily Radiant charged Battery
If you have the trigger alone excited (monopole Magnets) while have a Master driven by this triggeerd coil, there is no Inductive fractionation happening between the two, hence should not give you the desired result. the Vanilla configuration implies Bifilar coil.
Rgds,
Faraday88.


Rgds,
Faraday88

So an arduino or otherwise triggered COIL, as long as we are not passing a magnet by said COIL - or inducing an opposing "energy"/force, should also be capacitive and we should be able to swap...? Nice!

KR,
Patrick

[Faraday88]

Ok, forget what i'm saying about my windowmotor setup - too complicated iteration of it :-)

Think of the build as a regular SSG with detached trigger winding. The master coil sits away from the wheel altogether! the trigger coil is the only thing near the wheel. That's it...
KR,
Patrick

Hi Patrick,
Thanks for the information but i think there is more to what JB stated and we need to read between the lines when he talked about the Separate Trigger coil... Reason: the Trifilar coil is based on Tesla's Pancake coil geometry, if you read JB's patent #7711990' Circuits and related methods for Charging a Battery', if you can understand the two configurations of the Coaxial cable and the concentric tube diagrams in it that will give you the idea about the separate trigger requirement in the Circuit topology.
Years ago Peter mentioned about two methods of generating the Radiant Electricity, one Inductive and the other Capacitive, these two methods are opposite to what they produce as Radiant fractions of the Electricity. the swapping of the Batteries is allowed by Capacitive Fractionation while the Inductive does not allow it, you need to convert it in order to back feed into the source battery, and that is where you can either use a Capacitive dump or use an Inverter to back feed while drawing power from the Inductivily Radiant charged Battery
If you have the trigger alone excited (monopole Magnets) while have a Master driven by this triggeerd coil, there is no Inductive fractionation happening between the two, hence should not give you the desired result. the Vanilla configuration implies Bifilar coil.
Rgds,
Faraday88.


Rgds,
Faraday88

[min2oly]

Hi Patrick,

where is the Trigger placed if it is excited separately????the window motor is a torque motor and can be every well used as a prime mover for a Magneto-electric Induction (Faraday Induction) in which case SG coil is not at all the issue..could you please elaborate the link here..!
Rgds,
Faraday88

Ok, forget what i'm saying about my windowmotor setup - too complicated iteration of it :-)

Think of the build as a regular SSG with detached trigger winding. The master coil sits away from the wheel altogether! the trigger coil is the only thing near the wheel. That's it...
KR,
Patrick

[Faraday88]

I can speak to the quote...
it was in the wind powered DVD can't remember the DVD number.
so not only does the trigger have to be separate but the wheel has to be driven by some other source. In this instance the energy IMHO is magneto with a touch of supply so no energy is being used to spin the wheel except the wind.
here's a vid of the window B kit doing something similar without a supply/primary battery...

I'm using the "window-coils" as above and the wheel is being driven with SSG separately.
Kind Regards,
Patrick

Hi Patrick,

where is the Trigger placed if it is excited separately????the window motor is a torque motor and can be every well used as a prime mover for a Magneto-electric Induction (Faraday Induction) in which case SG coil is not at all the issue..could you please elaborate the link here..!
Rgds,
Faraday88

[Gary Hammond]

Hi Patrick,

I can speak to the quote...
it was in the wind powered DVD can't remember the DVD number. ............

Kind Regards,
Patrick

That would be EFTV Part 25 "Bedini Monopole Master Class 2"

[min2oly]

Hi Tom C/ AlvaroHN,

Very Interesting aspect of the SSG here,I'm Keen to know where JB states about swapping batteries on SSG with SEPARATED TRIGGER WINDING .?? (which of the DVD) much of the SSGs are operated this way i guess viz: the 10 coiler the 12 coiler ect. but on the other hand, i remember JB saying that you can't swap the batteries as the Energy would die out if you did that, he refers of using an (Sine wave preferred) Inverter to do the conversion and that the out put of the Inverter with suitable step down/ current would back charge the primary all the while the batteries cater other loads.

Rgds,
Faraday88.

I can speak to the quote...
it was in the wind powered DVD can't remember the DVD number.
so not only does the trigger have to be separate but the wheel has to be driven by some other source. In this instance the energy IMHO is magneto with a touch of supply so no energy is being used to spin the wheel except the wind.
here's a vid of the window B kit doing something similar without a supply/primary battery...

I'm using the "window-coils" as above and the wheel is being driven with SSG separately.
Kind Regards,
Patrick

[Faraday88]

Old thread but I just want to add a thing about swapping batteries with SSG (no cap dump). If I am not wrong, I read/heard John B saying that you could swap the batteries with a rest time (giving time to the negative energy to go positive in the battery). And other way to do it ( to swap without cap dump) is to have the trigger winding separated from the power winding, and that way it would work.

Hi Tom C/ AlvaroHN,

Very Interesting aspect of the SSG here,I'm Keen to know where JB states about swapping batteries on SSG with SEPARATED TRIGGER WINDING .?? (which of the DVD) much of the SSGs are operated this way i guess viz: the 10 coiler the 12 coiler ect. but on the other hand, i remember JB saying that you can't swap the batteries as the Energy would die out if you did that, he refers of using an (Sine wave preferred) Inverter to do the conversion and that the out put of the Inverter with suitable step down/ current would back charge the primary all the while the batteries cater other loads..
Another thing I observed recently about the SG (not SSG)while rejuvenating Batteries is that a Rest period allowed between continuous pulses revives the Batteries faster for the same power input to the system.
'A brief period where no pulses are present' is a common statement i get to read in a couple of Patents working on Radiant Energy technology.
in the Intermediate book I read that a 100hrs rest to the Radiantly charged Battery would deplete the gain attained in the Batteries.
I think there are both the extremities, where it would gain in one(SG)(Called E-AMP Effect) and lose in another with TIME (SSG)(Un backed E-AMP effect),

Rgds,
Faraday88.

[Tom C]

yes that is correct.
Tom C

[AlvaroHN]

Old thread but I just want to add a thing about swapping batteries with SSG (no cap dump). If I am not wrong, I read/heard John B saying that you could swap the batteries with a rest time (giving time to the negative energy to go positive in the battery). And other way to do it ( to swap without cap dump) is to have the trigger winding separated from the power winding, and that way it would work.

[geoffrey sr miller]

HI James

Yes, here is the website Energy Bat or energybat.com

Thanks geoffrey

[James Milner]

Geoffrey,
Is your site up yet? Can't seem to get through on the listed URL?
James

[Tom C]

Hi Tom C.

I like your boating website!

This is John B. website, and he is trying to get all people on the same page
with the SSG unit.

I don't want to go into new SSG units here.

But I will put the info. on my website Energy Bat under PROJECT #10.

Please give me some time, it will be a big website.

I have over 40 years of info.

The only Batteries you should used is Trojan, if you want great Results.

Have fun

Geoffrey


[ATTACH=CONFIG]1438[/ATTACH]

yes I use T series and L series trojans

Tom C

[geoffrey sr miller]

Hi Tom C.

I like your boating website!

This is John B. website, and he is trying to get all people on the same page
with the SSG unit.

I don't want to go into new SSG units here.

But I will put the info. on my website Energy Bat under PROJECT #10.

Please give me some time, it will be a big website.

I have over 40 years of info.

The only Batteries you should used is Trojan, if you want great Results.

Have fun

Geoffrey

can you please post the specs of the machine that you were using to swap, the exact circuit, the batteries you were using, pics of the machine, etc. especially coil wire size, length of wire, number of strands, magnet type, transistor. people will be very interested in replicationg a true swapper. with that being said, all we get out of the SG if it is a swapper is the mechanical, unless we can get at least 3 to one (1 extra battery from the process).

looking forward to your work.

Tom C

[RS_]

Hi All,

I wrote the below Bedini energizer differences explanation on another forum a while back, I will re-post here, and hope that it helps your understanding:


Standard Battery chargers use normal DC current flow backward through the battery at 14V to 16V, which will allow Sulfanation to form/grow on the Plates over time, as the battery is charged and discharged, decreasing the plates surface area, until the plate material's surface molecules are too big to interact with the electrolyte, and the battery will not receive a charge any more and is dead, and needs replacing. Standard Desulfanators, use pulses of CURRENT at a voltage of 14V to 16V, and will help KNOCK the Sulfate off the plate, and it ends up in the bottom of the battery, and the plate gets thinner, but has a cleaner surface with smaller molecules for the electrolyte to interact with.

There are several versions of Bedini Technology.

In the SSG (Simplified School Girl) model, The coil is pulsed with Voltage causing a magnetic field to build up as current flows, the same as in any coil. Then when the switch is opened, the magnetic field collapse's, and creates a extremely short duration Recoil Spike of extremely high voltage & very small current flow, the same as any coil. The difference is what the SSG circuit does with that Sharp Spike of Voltage. Almost all modern coil/motor driver circuits, shunts that high voltage spike to the ground rail, or the positive rail, through free wheeling diodes, to keep that spike from killing the drive Transistors, Mosfets, IGBT's, etc.... Engineers do their Best, to get rid of that Recoil Spike. The Bedini SSG diverts that High Voltage Recoil Spike through a diode into a charging battery, that is NOT in the same current LOOP as the drive battery / power supply. Thus the charging battery is seeing a almost current less High Voltage Spike, that forces the ions in the electrolyte to move backward, without using much current. Then there is some dead time while the circuit resets for the next coil pulse, and during this dead time, the ions in the battery electrolyte are still moving backward, but before they can stop moving, the coil produce's the next Recoil Voltage Spike, that keeps the ions moving backward.
This charges the battery, without using much current. The process with many charge discharge cycles, Replates the battery plates with smaller and smaller surface molecules called Dentrites, that look like tiny fern leafs, or fractals that look the same at different magnifications, GROWING on the plate. This increases the surface area that the electrolyte can interact with, thus increasing the state of charge, so that the battery can last FAR LONGER at a given Amp Load. The smaller plate surface molecules also mean that it takes FAR LESS time to charge the battery back up.
The smaller plate surface molecules, also mean a Higher 4 Hour Standing Voltage.
This process with many many charge cycles will make the plate surface molecules growing on the plate, Smaller than when NEW, thus the battery has MORE Discharge Time than when NEW....!!!!
Once SSG charged Batterys have been Conditioned, you Never want to put them on a standard DC charger, as that will undo the conditioning. So you want to charge them with a SSG model from then on. Because the charger Never lets the plate molecules get very big, the battery will Never Ware Out and Die by Sulfanation



The SG-Cap Pulser (School Girl) model, works similar to the SSG, but is very different.

When the coil magnetic field collapse's, and creates a extremely short duration Recoil Spike of extremely high voltage & very small current flow, the same as any coil. The SG-Cap Pulser model has a 3rd winding, that collects the Recoil Spike, and diverts it through a FWBR into a collection Cap that fills up extremely fast, because of the extremely high voltage, up to 20-25V Then the Cap Pulser's semiconductor switch, SHARPLY Dumps the Cap to the charging Battery, down to the battery's voltage, or a volt or 2 over the battery Voltage, then the Cap Recharges up from the charging battery's Voltage, Vs up from empty, taking less time to charge to full. Once again, the Sharp Cap Discharge Pulse is forcing the Ions in the electrolyte to move backward, and once again you have Dead time while the cap fills back up, and when the cap dumps again, it keeps the ions moving backward, charging the Battery.
And once again, the charging battery is NOT in the same Current LOOP as the driving battery/power supply. Because the charger Never lets the plate molecules get very big, the battery will Never Ware Out and Die by Sulfanation

With The SG-Cap Pulser model, you can use the battery on a standard charger, such as in your automobile, and it will hold the conditioning for a lot longer than the SSG model. The battery will eventually lose its conditioning, and start Sulfanation again, needing a SG-Cap Pulser treatment every so often, to keep it in shape. Or use the SG-Cap Pulser all the time the same as a SSG.

Then there is The Bedini/Cole, bipolar motor driver circuit, that can be configured as a 1/2 H bridge driver, or a Full H bridge driver, and are much like any other H bridge motor drivers, with the difference being, that a FWBR is put across the drive motor Coil, to collect that extremely short duration Recoil Spike of extremely high voltage & very small current flow, into a Cap Pulser, to charge Battery's with, in the same manner as the SG-Cap Pulser model. And there are NO Free wheeling Diodes to shunt that high voltage spike to the ground rail, or the positive rail to get rid of it, as most modern H Bridge motor drivers do.

There are several other variations, that I will not go into here.

All of these Energizer circuits and motor configs, are Patented by Bedini/Energenx
"Instead of conventional constant current or constant voltage DC charging, batteries charged by electrical pulses with specific shape, frequency, and magnitude, to trigger improved electrochemical energy charging in the battery. Because of this, the life of new batteries can be dramatically extended and the capacity of older batteries, previously unable to be adequately charged by conventional means, can be increased."

[longhorn]

Tom C and others:


Thank you Tom C and others.

Getting answers around here is like pulling teeth from my ex's lawyer.

Am currently building a plain vanilla SG with the intentions of constructing verbatim as shown in the SG Handbook, nothing fancy.

But from a practical standpoint my intentions are to a higher attainment, and my belief is that all ships should rise together. Some of us have better resources, some of us have more technical expertise, while others have big hearts and good intentions. I would prefer a forum where everything is not necessarily given freely, but real issues are discussed and dissected practically, with a spirit of participant camaraderie. Call me old fashion but the post on this thread are some of the best I've seen to date. Thank You all.

Moving on, where can a guy get a ready to use SG shaft, and if available is the shaft diameter O.D. standard to the I.D. of most bicycle rims? The shaft is proving difficult for me as I do not have a machine shop, nor do I have shaft spec's to have one locally fabricated.