160 Amp solar Tracker 5

[Aaron Murakami]

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[John_Koorn]

Hi Peter,

Thank you for a very informative (and FREE!) eBook!

I'm looking to install a solar system and was particularly interested in the information you wrote about the Amorphous Silicon panels. It certainly does make more sense to use these instead of the mono-crystalline panels which seem to be all the rage. I also like the Amorphous panels as they are flexible and lightweight and easier to install.

I've started doing a little research on what's available and the cost of these panels, but have a question about which of the below two panels would be more suited to the Tesla Solar Tracker 5.

The first one is http://www.solaronline.com.au/uni-so...e-backing.html

Model	PVL 136
Rated Power	136 Watts
Operating Voltage	33 V
Open Circuit Voltage	46.2 V
Operating Current	4.13 A
Short Circuit Current	5.1 A
Dimensions	5486 x 394 x 4 mm
Weight	7.7 kg

It seems to have above the recommended Voc, but lower than the recommended operating voltage.

The second one is http://www.solaronline.com.au/uni-so...lar-panel.html

Model	PVL 124
Rated Power	124 Watts
Operating Voltage	30 V
Open Circuit Voltage	42 V
Operating Current	4.1 A
Short Circuit Current	5.1 A
Dimensions	5007 x 394 x 3.3 mm
Weight	7.0 kg
Design Life	> 20 years

This one has the recommended Voc, but the operating voltage is lower than recommended.

Are any of these suitable for the Tesla Solar Tracker 5, if so which one would you recommend?

John K.

[Retep]

Hey John, Great Question...

Hi Peter,

Thank you for a very informative (and FREE!) eBook!

I'm looking to install a solar system and was particularly interested in the information you wrote about the Amorphous Silicon panels. It certainly does make more sense to use these instead of the mono-crystalline panels which seem to be all the rage. I also like the Amorphous panels as they are flexible and lightweight and easier to install.

I've started doing a little research on what's available and the cost of these panels, but have a question about which of the below two panels would be more suited to the Tesla Solar Tracker 5.

The first one is http://www.solaronline.com.au/uni-so...e-backing.html

Model	PVL 136
Rated Power	136 Watts
Operating Voltage	33 V
Open Circuit Voltage	46.2 V
Operating Current	4.13 A
Short Circuit Current	5.1 A
Dimensions	5486 x 394 x 4 mm
Weight	7.7 kg

It seems to have above the recommended Voc, but lower than the recommended operating voltage.

The second one is http://www.solaronline.com.au/uni-so...lar-panel.html

Model	PVL 124
Rated Power	124 Watts
Operating Voltage	30 V
Open Circuit Voltage	42 V
Operating Current	4.1 A
Short Circuit Current	5.1 A
Dimensions	5007 x 394 x 3.3 mm
Weight	7.0 kg
Design Life	> 20 years

This one has the recommended Voc, but the operating voltage is lower than recommended.

Are any of these suitable for the Tesla Solar Tracker 5, if so which one would you recommend?

John K.

Hi John,

Great questions! All of the Tesla Solar Tracker 5 units, rated for 24 volt battery systems, have the input specs of an Input Voltage at max power (Vmp) rated at 37 volts. The Linear Amplifier creates a "voltage wall" at 30.4 volts, so when the system is passing maximum currents, the switching devices have to dissipate the differential voltage across the devices, which is why the systems are cooled with a fan and a big heat sink. To pass currents from the panels to the batteries, you need some "head room" above the voltage wall. So, the second panel you list here, with an "operating voltage" at about 30 volts, will probably not pass much current. The first panel you list is still rated a little bit low, at 33 volts, which is only about 2.6 volts above the wall. The amount of current the Tesla Solar Tracker 5 will pass is a function of the voltage differential (Vmp - 30.4) and the impedance of the system from the panels to the batteries. On bench tests I've run on 12 volt systems, it takes about 2.5 volts above the wall to release the current to max. So if the panel is rated at just 2.6 volts above the wall for full sun conditions, it's going to turn OFF too soon under clouds.

Personally, I would not select either of these panels. You are better off looking for panels with the right specs rather than trying to "make do" with what might be easily available.

Don't worry about the Open Circuit Voltage (Voc) being a little high, because the input devices are rated well above these levels for voltage and the entire system input is fused for current. So, slightly higher Voc ratings are tolerated well by the Tesla Solar Tracker 5 series. By contrast, a panel with too high of a Vmp rating may make the Tesla Solar Tracker 5 run at full power under clouds but also run too hot during full sun conditions. There is a sweet spot where you can get max power most of the time without frying the unit under full sun. That is what you are looking for, and that is why John builds them with such a robust cooling system.

Hope that helps.

Peter

[John_Bedini]

John K,
I would use this panel, but I have also used the second one. They will both work with the Tracker 5
The first one is http://www.solaronline.com.au/uni-so...e-backing.html

Model PVL 136
Rated Power 136 Watts
Operating Voltage 33 V
Open Circuit Voltage 46.2 V
Operating Current 4.13 A
Short Circuit Current 5.1 A
Dimensions 5486 x 394 x 4 mm
Weight 7.7 kg

Are going to use only one panel? or are you going to put 3 or 4 of them together?
John

[Tom C]

those flexible amorphous panels work really well, I have a friend who has one on top of his airstream, charges really well even in low light.

Tom C

[John_Koorn]

Thanks Peter and John for your responses.

I'll keep looking for panels with a higher operating voltage, but Uni-solar seems to be a fairly popular brand and don't make 24v amorphous panels with a higher voltage. I'll also look at 12v panels and an inverter to match.

John, I'm looking at 2 panels in parallel to start with and then adding more as money permits. I have a 24V 80A TST5 I'm planning on using for my off-grid setup.

John K.

[Retep]

Further Comments

Thanks Peter and John for your responses.

I'll keep looking for panels with a higher operating voltage, but Uni-solar seems to be a fairly popular brand and don't make 24v amorphous panels with a higher voltage. I'll also look at 12v panels and an inverter to match.

John, I'm looking at 2 panels in parallel to start with and then adding more as money permits. I have a 24V 80A TST5 I'm planning on using for my off-grid setup.

John K.

John,

I saw John Bedini's response saying these panels DO work with the Tesla Solar Tracker 5, so that is the final word. My response was based on the specifications you posted. If the panels work, my guess is that the "operating voltage" ratings are quite conservative. If you look at the spec sheets for the 24 volt Tesla Solar Tracker 5s, the Open Circuit Voltage (Voc) rating is 42 volts. Both panels you list have this rating or higher, so maybe that is the better gauge of how well they will work with the Solar Tracker. Choosing between the two, I would pick the first one.

Personally, if I was going to spend a bunch of money and put together a solar power system I wanted to run my house for the next 20 years, I'd buy a few different panels to test and actually measure their performance in full sun and cloudy conditions with the TST5. As I discuss in the Solar Secrets book, all solar panels are not created equal, and finding the ones that produce the most energy in the greatest variation of conditions will make a big difference in how well the solar power system operates throughout the year and during large storms that last for days.

John Bedini's tests have been extensive and thorough. If we follow his lead on this, we should do the same when planning a large installation.

Best regards,
Peter

[Aaron Murakami]

Thanks Peter and John for your responses.

I'll keep looking for panels with a higher operating voltage, but Uni-solar seems to be a fairly popular brand and don't make 24v amorphous panels with a higher voltage. I'll also look at 12v panels and an inverter to match.

John, I'm looking at 2 panels in parallel to start with and then adding more as money permits. I have a 24V 80A TST5 I'm planning on using for my off-grid setup.

John K.

Uni-solar used to be the largest manufacturer in the world of flexible solar panels. I believe all the ones you see are old inventory that people are selling and I think they are CIGS and not Amorphous. If so, they are actually a bit better than Amorphous.

They're designed by Stanford Ovshinsky who invented the nickel metal hydride batteries. He wanted to give the world cheap solar and his methods are seriously suppressed. Could mass produce cheap solar panels miles at a time and would cost less than 10 cents per watt to make.

[Tom C]

too bad they are not easy to make...... even if you don't have to grow the silicon, the process is very technical.

http://www.ehow.com/how_8747941_make-amorphous-solar-cell.html

Tom C

[jelloir]

I am in the same boat as John K looking for some decent Amorphous Panels. I contacted solaronline.com.au about those panels as I noticed that UNI-SOLAR filed for bankruptcy in 2012. Response as follows:

UNI-SOLAR are no longer trading. Their engineers are now only doing research and development. As such, the panels have no manufacturer backed warranty. They were designed to outlast a 25 year warranty. We have sold UNI-SOLAR products for over 10 years and have not had any fail to date.

As a consolation, the pricing we are selling these panels for is now less than half what they were when UNI-SOLAR were trading.

I also asked about sources of decent larger Amorphous Panels so will post back if they provide any useful information.

[jelloir]

Response from solaronline.com.au about any alternatives to the UNI-SOLAR panels as large Amorphous panels seem hard to find.

We have trialled various Amorphous modules and have not found anything that comes close to the UNI-SOLAR in performance and quality. There are Chinese look-a-likes that delaminate in less than 12 months....and other rigid modules that suffer from a form of internal rusting. The UNI-SOLAR just work!

[Branch Gordon]

I am seeing a lot of these on Ebay in the US, but they are all 24V. Would the tracker 5 allow me to charge a 12V battery with a 24V panel?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Peel-Stick-1...item41729eff26

[jelloir]

I am seeing a lot of these on Ebay in the US, but they are all 24V. Would the tracker 5 allow me to charge a 12V battery with a 24V panel?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Peel-Stick-1...item41729eff26

Hi Branch, not sure if you have a 24V or 12V Tracker. If it's a 12V Tracker then the answer is no. I asked a similar question which TomC answered here http://www.energyscienceforum.com/sh...ll=1#post14595.

Thanks

[Branch Gordon]

Ah yes, looks like you saw the same info I did, about hooking up a 24V panel to a 12V MPPT controller. Thanks directing me to that answer!

Hi Branch, not sure if you have a 24V or 12V Tracker. If it's a 12V Tracker then the answer is no. I asked a similar question which TomC answered here http://www.energyscienceforum.com/sh...ll=1#post14595.

Thanks

[jelloir]

Xunlight

I have been researching Amorphous panels as part of some PM's with John K and came across this company http://www.xunlight.com

They are based in Toledo Ohio US and from what I can tell the panels are similar to those that UNI-SOLAR used to produce. Has anyone tried these or know what the quality is like?

Here are some random links that I felt may be useful.

http://www.xunlight.com/Documents/XLS-72_144.pdf <- The Vmp is closer to TST5 spec than UNI-SOLAR. They state that they do custom panels... custom branded Amorphous panels spec'd to TST5's anyone
This company would appear to be doing custom panels: http://www.ecodirect.com/Xunlight-Th...nels-s/444.htm

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Xunlight

I have a S10A12 and have inquired about an Australian distributor or shipping to Aussie of the XLS11-72 for testing. If I get hold of one I will let everyone know how it performs. If someone has a 24V TST5 and gets the 144 model let us know how it goes (or anyone wanting to test the 72/12V for that matter).

Thanks

James