John Bedini's Magnetic Model

[AlvaroHN]

Patrick, what do you do to see the spike before the current on the scope?

[min2oly]

Hi guys, about the spike event, is evident that the one we see on the scope on the coil is the one that appears when the coil is turned off. But I have also always understood from John's website that the radiant appears before the current, when coil is turned ON.

I also saw the EFTV movie where is shown that the radiant appears first , green flash on cap discharge. Which I can also see if I short a cap manually with a wire. Also in my gen coils when I short the wires by hand while spinning I can also see the green flash there sometimes.

So I assume that the visible spike on the scope when coil collapses is one thing, and there is the other event that should happen when coil is energized and is not visible on the scope.

Best

Alvaro

I can see "the other event that should happen when coil is energized" on my scope. You will not see this in a Vanilla SSG. This is different than the green glow of a cap being shorted.

[Aaron Murakami]

This was my green event:

[Aaron Murakami]

Sounds interesting, I might need to read that a few more times to understand what is being said though.

I don't want to sound mysterious or coy but not everything I have learned gets posted. I generally will post fundamental aspects and leave the rest for someone to play with if they wish. There are many ways to expand on the "cap dancing" method I described but the basic idea is what I presented.

I tell you what that reminds me off in a way,, the EARLY work that Mr. Bearden put out in reference to Mr. Bedini's methods. Especially the idea of fast switching and separating the ION flow and the Electron flow into separate open paths. You can charge and run a load at the same time with proper switching. Sometimes we get lucky and hit a sub harmonic. Part of what I was doing in some of my suggestions with varying your pulse rather than the same thing over and over was with that in mind, if your really lucky you may hit the proper frequency and tickle sub harmonics of it too.

That is a quote from the other forum - I read through your experiments. That would be a good video presentation for YouTube.

John has talked about separating these flows and got into the Phi Dot flow to charge batteries, etc... has anyone actually seen it work?

[Aaron Murakami]

Caps are good for pre-current spikes while inductors are good for collapsing spikes.

Caps are what Tesla used to further exploit the radiant matter effect.

[Aaron Murakami]

So what we have is two events one at switch closure and one at switch opening... Sometimes things can get confusing, look what Gerry Vassilatos book says below and John's post... This was also discussed on monopole Yahoo groups and was common knowledge on that group as well... Sorry but we need to be on the same page.

Dave Wing

The switch closure event is real, but it is still different than what is in the Bedini/Cole notes.

In a HV DC system, when a switch is moving towards the closed position, that voltage will jump the gap in the switch when the gap in the switch gets to a distance that is at the voltage's dielectric breakdown value. If the voltage is at 5kv and it is in open dry air, that "spike" will be the voltage jumping when the switch gets to about 1mm. That voltage is just looking for a closed path.

But there is also the radiant matter (radiant electricity) that exits the wires when suddenly hit with that HV impulse and not just the hv shock from being part of a grounding rod when closing a hv switch.

Here are some other quotes from Secrets of Cold War Technology that come after the page you posted - other parts to the switch closure event.

"Tesla understood that the resistance of lines or components, viewed
from the dynamo end, seemed to be an impossible "barrier" for charge carriers
to penetrate. This barrier caused the "bunching" effect. Electrostatic charges
were literally stopped and held for an instant by line resistance, a barrier which
only existed during the brief millisecond interval in which the power switch
was closed. The sudden force application against this virtual barrier squeezed
charge into a density impossible to obtain with ordinary capacitors. It was the
brief application of power, the impact of charge against the resistance barrier,
which brought this abnormal electro-densified condition. This is why the conductive
wires in his present experiment often exploded."

"The sudden quick closure of the switch now brought a penetrating shockwave
throughout the laboratory, one which could be felt both as a sharp pressure
and a penetrating electrical irritation."

"Tesla believed that material particles approaching
the vapor state were literally thrust out of the wires in all directions."

"The stings lasting for a small fraction of
a second, the instant of switch closure. But Tesla believed that these strange
effects were a simple effect of ionized shockwaves in the air, rather like a
strongly ionized thunderclap."

"Tesla devised a new series of experiments to measure the shockwave pressure
from a greater distance. He required an automatic "trip switch". With this
properly arranged, a more controlled and repetitious triggering of the effect
was possible. In addition, this arrangement permitted distant observations which
might cast more light on the shied-permeating phenomenon. Controlling the
speed of the high voltage dynamo controlled the voltage. With these components
properly adjusted, Tesla was able to walk around his large gallery spaces
and make observations. Wishing also to avoid the continuous pressure barrage
and its stinging sparks, Tesla shielded himself with several materials. The
arrangement of rapidly interrupted high voltage direct currents resulted in the
radiation of stinging rays which could be felt at great distances from their
super-sparking source. In fact, Tesla felt the stings right through the shields!
Whatever had been released from the wires during the instant of switch closure,
successfully penetrated the shields of glass and of copper. It made no
difference, the effect permeated each substance as if the shield were not there
at all. Here was an electrical effect which communicated directly through space
without material connections. Radiant electricity!"

"RADIANT ELECTRICITY
Through successive experimental arrangements, Tesla discovered several
facts concerning the production of his effect. First, the cause was undoubtedly
found in the abruptness of charging. It was in the switch closure, the very
instant of "closure and break", which thrust the effect out into space. The effect
was definitely related to time, IMPULSE time. Second, Tesla found that it was
imperative that the charging process occurred in a single impulse. No reversal
of current was permissible, else the effect would not manifest."

Is it believed that John's machines are utilizing this effect? He's using the free "radiant" potential, but everything electrical does that anyway including a flashlight. Anywhere there is a dipole, it's polarizing the aether and anywhere the dipoles gives a conductive path between the terminals, there is EMF (Heaviside Flow). For the radiant matter effect, John's machines are all too low of voltage and the switches are on for way too long. The free energy in John's machines are coming from the magnetic fields. The voltage will always rise when there is enough back pressure and if this is the "spike" that people are seeing during switch closure, that doesn't mean it is causing a radiant matter emission, which is the whole point to Tesla's Radiant Electricity. I think Peter covered this in his presentation Tesla's Radiant Energy.

The closest thing that I've seen that has the potential to demonstrate the radiant matter effect is my plasma ignition motor - I just haven't tried to exploit that at the gap. It's an analogy of the Gray Tube patent and is speculated that the 4000v 2uf caps rapidly discharging into the rods in the tubes and then shut off will give these radiant matter explosions that are then intercepted by the grids surrounding those rods. And if that is what Gray was really doing, then why are there zero reports (that I know of - Mark McKay would know) of anyone experiencing the stinging effects when near the tubes when the motor was running?

The other is Mark McKay's replication of Eric Dollard's experiment: http://www.gestaltreality.com/energy...by-mark-mckay/

[Aaron Murakami]

Deuis,

Your post on Rick was moved to that Rick thread.

It's helpful to all of us who have been screwed by Rick. If there are enough complaints publicly posted, he'll eventually have to face the music. Also helps to prevent others from getting screwed by him.

[AlvaroHN]

Hi guys, about the spike event, is evident that the one we see on the scope on the coil is the one that appears when the coil is turned off. But I have also always understood from John's website that the radiant appears before the current, when coil is turned ON.

I also saw the EFTV movie where is shown that the radiant appears first , green flash on cap discharge. Which I can also see if I short a cap manually with a wire. Also in my gen coils when I short the wires by hand while spinning I can also see the green flash there sometimes.

So I assume that the visible spike on the scope when coil collapses is one thing, and there is the other event that should happen when coil is energized and is not visible on the scope.

Best

Alvaro

[min2oly]

The pre-current spike is very real. I wrote about it and experimented with it back here:
http://www.energyscienceforum.com/sh...st10765http://

I later developed it farther, that thread was made when I had first started to understand a few things that were going on. What seems important when your interested in it is the potential, higher the better but not necessarily the current. I played with that MC until I got such fast switching that neither the digital or analog amp meter showed hardly any current but the spikes were in the hundreds of volts. Caps are good for pre-current spikes while inductors are good for collapsing spikes. To really see the difference try the same frequency triggering on a cap and then on a coil, you will notice quite a difference.

I always liked that cap dump of yours. I hoped at the time it might spark the conversation of the dipole a bit further. I can’t find where you show the pre-current spike, can you provide link?

The spike I see in my scope is just as big as the spike after the current. As I’ve described it, I have only been able to produce with resistance (a coil). The Vanilla SSG will not be able to produce it. I cannot see it in my scope by using a cap to battery as you describe. I must be missing something.

So, you have a cap with potential XXX and you want to connect it to the battery with potential X.

So are you saying in order for both the pre-current and after current spike to show up, the switching has to extremely fast?

Or - in order for the pre-current spike to show up at all the switching has to be fast?

My common sense would tell me that the pre-current spike should show up regardless of the on time of the switch and that it is the after current spike that needs some coaxing?
None of this is common sense though right :-)
KR-Patrick

[Allen R.]

Did anyone notice the ball leap at the closing of the switch and then settle down? Great video. I'm going to use it for my son's homeschool science class.

Those huge meters should be on my bench!!!

This thread is probably one of the best on the whole forum.

Thanks everyone,

al

[Faraday88]

erik laithwiate has a lot to say on the subject

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tJfqMYHaQw

Tom C

Educational indeed but slightly of topic i feel
Rgds,
Faraday88.

[BobZilla]

I concur Dave,
I did try to go down this road with discussions on the old yahoo forum and have always pointed to JB's talk on DVD #2 about the guy throwing the switch at Niagara falls and what happened before the current got there... the powers that be took down my youtube video on it. Many disagree with this but if you look at a couple of vids I have up you can see the spike before and after - that's 2 spikes for each trigger event. I always thought that was what Tom Bearden meant when he talked about keeping the dipole open for as long as possible.
Patrick A.

The pre-current spike is very real. I wrote about it and experimented with it back here:
http://www.energyscienceforum.com/sh...st10765http://

I later developed it farther, that thread was made when I had first started to understand a few things that were going on. What seems important when your interested in it is the potential, higher the better but not necessarily the current. I played with that MC until I got such fast switching that neither the digital or analog amp meter showed hardly any current but the spikes were in the hundreds of volts. Caps are good for pre-current spikes while inductors are good for collapsing spikes. To really see the difference try the same frequency triggering on a cap and then on a coil, you will notice quite a difference.

[min2oly]

So what we have is two events one at switch closure and one at switch opening... Sometimes things can get confusing, look what Gerry Vassilatos book says below and John's post... This was also discussed on monopole Yahoo groups and was common knowledge on that group as well... Sorry but we need to be on the same page.

Dave Wing

I concur Dave,
I did try to go down this road with discussions on the old yahoo forum and have always pointed to JB's talk on DVD #2 about the guy throwing the switch at Niagara falls and what happened before the current got there... the powers that be took down my youtube video on it. Many disagree with this but if you look at a couple of vids I have up you can see the spike before and after - that's 2 spikes for each trigger event. I always thought that was what Tom Bearden meant when he talked about keeping the dipole open for as long as possible.
Patrick A.

[Dave Wing]

What you're mentioning when the switch closes is that EMF that flows over the wire at near light speed limited by the electron current drag - that goes into Tesla's disruptive DC impulse technology where if you can make and break it before the electron current can flow, then you have an extraluminal impulse of that polarized and densified aether that has no drag. That is the radiant that shows up before the current. But you can get the radiant without current or at least with very little by generating the spike when the coil opens - you then have that radiant potential (that Time potential) and that for the most part is without the current.

So what we have is two events one at switch closure and one at switch opening... Sometimes things can get confusing, look what Gerry Vassilatos book says below and John's post... This was also discussed on monopole Yahoo groups and was common knowledge on that group as well... Sorry but we need to be on the same page.

Dave Wing

[Faraday88]

Hi Aaron,

Upon revisiting some references I don't think spike we are looking for is from the coil collapse when you open the switch. Both John Bedini and Gerry Vassilatos said the spike we are looking for happens upon switch closure... The very instance the switch or transitor turns on.

This video shows what the spike, radiant, BEMF or whatever you want to call it, appears upon switch closure. Remember the radiant shows up before the current (John has said Radiant precedes the current and demo's this in EFTV as Tony films).

My questions are... BEMF tries to prevent change in an inductor, does it have to show up first before the force that tries to change it? So perhaps the spike shows up, umimpeded, even before the BEMF is there to resist the current flow? That is the only other explanation I can think of.

Second question... Whatever shrinks the metal alloy coin is an incredible force that is much stronger than the copper coil and or coin, yet the copper withstands the coin shrinking process but cannot withstand the current that follows the shrinking event. How is this possible? It has to be a negative (cold or converging) form of energy doing this... Yes?... No? The coil is vaporized just after the blue flash, by the current flow, which is positive (heat or expanding) energy as indicated by the green orange flames.

As a side note... the coin is placed in the Bloch wall of the inductor.

Dave Wing

Hi Dave,
Its simple....they use Capacitor discharge into the coil and not a battery in such coin shrinker excitation... but yes that does give you some clues on what the heck is the Bloch wall capable of!!
Rgds,
Faraday88