Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Plasma Ignition | Plasma Jet Ignition

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Plasma Ignition | Plasma Jet Ignition

    I'm starting this thread to talk about Plasma Ignition.

    I have Ignition Secrets by Aaron Murakami | Plasma Ignition available and it doesn't include technical support for people's experiments. I do however, help quite a few people out anyway, but from now on I'm only going to address any of that in this thread. So if anyone has questions, they have to read this entire thread first and then if the questions aren't answered, I can try to help out.

    The concept is simple - high voltage from coil jumps the gap and ionizes the gap and makes it conductive enough so that a lower voltage capacitor in parallel with the gap can discharge over the gap creating the plasma impulse.

    I'll post more later, but this is just to get things started.
    Aaron Murakami





    You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.” ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

  • #2
    Answering these questions for all to see is a great idea......Thanks

    Comment


    • #3
      Here are my questions........


      My mosfet gets hot quite quickly.( Nte 2376 )
      I am using a 50/50 duty cycle on my 555 .( maybe the cause )

      I seem to be drawing about 4amps, to a standard auto coil with 12 volts. Does that sound about right

      Also I was wondering if you could explain the function of the several diodes in your 555 circuit and the very short off cycle.

      Yours
      Carl

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by hh1341 View Post
        Here are my questions........


        My mosfet gets hot quite quickly.( Nte 2376 )
        I am using a 50/50 duty cycle on my 555 .( maybe the cause )

        I seem to be drawing about 4amps, to a standard auto coil with 12 volts. Does that sound about right

        Also I was wondering if you could explain the function of the several diodes in your 555 circuit and the very short off cycle.

        Yours
        Carl
        Hi Carl,

        Thanks for bringing these questions here!

        I'd put the mosfet on a heat sink if you are having heat problems.

        Also, if this is just for a bench test, I'd reduce the duty cycle to the lowest possible to still get the effect.
        You can replace that 1k resistor with a variable one to adjust the on time. It will automatically change the off time.

        Are you using an off the shelf CDI or did you make your own cap charger? 48 watts being high or low would depend on that.

        The diodes on the 555, I really don't know. I used that 555 circuit for a long time for various projects because I can change the on and off times for serious pwm control.
        Aaron Murakami





        You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.” ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

        Comment


        • #5
          Thanks Arron,

          I may have not read all the info on the forum or missed a bit.

          This is what I was looking for........

          I think the setup to be applicable in a working application would need to have the cap switching done, solid state, and the voltage supplying the cap to be raised from available 12 volt to 120 by, say, a doubler array.
          One could use a step-up transformer, driven by a 555, but it's always good to keep the parts count down.

          What work has been done in this direction, who is doing it, can I join them?
          I need to get this on the road.

          Yours
          Carl

          Comment


          • #6
            Hi Aaron,
            thanks for getting this started. Just to be sure, this is what we are talking about right?



            I am very interested in how you are supplying the higher voltage at a steady rate on the vehicle itself. I was thinking of using a small 300W inverter. I am more interested in knowing what you have used that actually works.
            Thank you for sharing this mod.
            -KR
            Patrick

            Comment


            • #7
              Min2oly.....

              An inverter can and has been used to charge the cap.

              A DC voltage multiplier would be the bee's knees

              The mechanical relay is a weakness also.

              Looking for help on both these items .

              Carl

              Comment


              • #8
                BTW Arron, the package is well worth the 37 bucks.

                Thanks
                Carl

                Comment


                • #9
                  For my cap charger, I use this: MSD 5520 Street Fire Ignition with Rev Control : Amazon.com : Automotive

                  This unit works perfect for my jet engine - triggered with the same 555 mosfet circuit you see in the book.

                  The unit also works perfect for my gas generator - I put a threaded rod down the middle of the generator, put on a timing wheel with a magnet embedded in it it triggers a reed that turns on a transistor to connect the msd trigger wire to ground.

                  plasmaignitiontiming.jpg

                  ABS 4" end cap is bolted to the generator cover plate with the 2 bolts you see through the timing wheel. The reed switch and transistor setup is mounted to the inside of some ABS tubing that is cut about 4-5 inches long and that is pressed into the end cap. There is a bold coming through the top that I can screw down to lock it into place. Loosening the bolt, I can rotate the pipe inside the end cap to adjust the timing anywhere inside of 360 degrees so basically infinitely adjustable. Obviously, it will only need to be adjusted in a certain range.

                  When the transistor switches, the white trigger wire from the MSD unit is connected to ground and that discharges it into the ignition coil.

                  plasmaignition.jpg

                  That is the Street Fire MSD unit with performance coil.

                  For real applications, I wouldn't build my own cap charger - I'd just use an off the shelf MSD or CDI and connect the diode(s) accordingly.

                  Some people get the off the shelf CDI/MSD's to work and some can't. I'm not sure why - there are too many variables. So far, I haven't been able to not get it to work with everything I've tried. Various MSD units, Street Fire (MSD's budget model), the old Tiger CDI, etc...

                  @Patrick - the higher voltage is supplied directly by the ignition coil.
                  Aaron Murakami





                  You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.” ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by hh1341 View Post
                    BTW Arron, the package is well worth the 37 bucks.

                    Thanks
                    Carl
                    Thanks Carl!
                    Aaron Murakami





                    You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.” ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by hh1341 View Post
                      Min2oly.....

                      An inverter can and has been used to charge the cap.

                      A DC voltage multiplier would be the bee's knees

                      The mechanical relay is a weakness also.

                      Looking for help on both these items .

                      Carl
                      Carl,
                      thanks - wouldn't the distributor take the place of the mechanical relay in the vehicle, or are you talking on the bench?
                      -KR
                      Patrick

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by min2oly View Post
                        Carl,
                        thanks - wouldn't the distributor take the place of the mechanical relay in the vehicle, or are you talking on the bench?
                        -KR
                        Patrick
                        You could short out the distributor points if you put the plasma through that. So the diodes go from the CDI/MSD direct to the boot of each plug directly bypassing the distributor.
                        Aaron Murakami





                        You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.” ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Arron .......where is this latest info ...........this stuff has evolved since the package......is it on the forum?

                          Carl

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            How I do it

                            Secondary spark gap is a must; something like this will do:
                            SparkGap.jpg

                            Crunch down the size of the diode string:
                            DiodeString.jpg

                            Grab yourself a standard ignition system:
                            DSC_0002.jpg

                            Build the circuit from off-the-shelf parts:
                            PlasmaGenSchematic.jpg

                            DSC_0001.jpg


                            Tested on a single cylinder engine to run up to 3600 RPM with no issues. Powerful one inch jet shooting from plug at 30 cycles per second.

                            Hope this helps folks.

                            Cheers!

                            D1



                            P.S.

                            Currently working on a genset modification using water mist and Brown's gas. Once all the parts are in, I'll have more to show.
                            "Never tell people how to do things. Tell them what to do and they will surprise you with their ingenuity."
                            "Success is how high you bounce when you hit bottom."
                            "If everyone is thinking alike, someone isn't thinking."
                            - General George S Patton Jr

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Seems to me the cap charge which rides the ignition spark should be triggered by the conventional timing mechanism (eg points )

                              This synchronizes the cap discharge with the timing. Therefore things like timing advance are taken of.

                              The version I envisage is a twist on the one Peter demonstrated.

                              It needs 2 things as I see it.....

                              1. A solid state electronic flip flop switch to replace the relay.

                              2. A simple, robust, way to raise 12 volts to, say, 120 v ( a DC voltage multiplier )

                              My weak suit is the electronics.

                              I have replicated the circuits in the package, It's these 2 suggested wrinkles that might stump me.

                              Who on here would be up for a collaboration on developing these items?

                              Carl

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X