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  • Bitcoin

    There is no where else to post this and I'll leave it to the moderators to decide whether this is too far astray. By way of disclaimer I now have a rather small stake in Bitcoin and Dogecoin as I built a machine to mine them starting at the New Year, mining rewards are in part a function of how many people are mining so boy is it a risk to mention that to this group

    The following link is the best synopsis of the pro bitcoin position I have read, it was written by Marc Andresson who invented the Netscape browser maybe 15 years ago, which despite a few new bells and whistles looks pretty much the same as the browser I use now.

    http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2014/01/...tcoin-matters/

    I will add my two bits to this article about things unsaid. 1) Bitcoin is a superior form of money, it does not like the dollar come into existence as a note of debt upon which "interest" must be paid but as a credit, If, like the dollar (errr, federal reserve note) bringing something into existence from nothing, which people have to pay interest on to use does not meet the definition of usury I don't know what does. Bitcoin also allows for much more rapid transactions with almost no transaction fees. 2) Unlike the PC or internet which Mr Andressen mentions the bitcoin protocol presents an obvious threat to established monied interests. That pretty much sums it up in my mind, it's better and it is obviously threatening.

    When I first read on this maybe a year ago I said that has to be stomped out, it just can't be. If I had been a bit more idealistic and a bit less cynical I would be a lot more wealthy today, It was when the Chinese central bank declared a couple months ago that Chinese banks could not exchange bitcoin for Chinese yuan and bitcoin only dropped 50 percent that I said I have to get involved with this and now. China is the second largest economy and at the time had the largest bitcoin -> national currency exchange in the world, I really think this was intended to be the deathknell, instead bitcoin has bounced back more than half way from what it lost at the announcement. This is funny, because if the banks say, we won't play and everyone says, fine FU, what do they do to keep the royal scam going. So I would guess right now they are looking for weaknesses in the technology, talking the idea down and/or looking for ways to co-opt it. As it becomes more and more widespread, they could be in the position to use a line from a general in an obscure Monty Python skit of saying "OK, surround everyone, with everything we've got." It still all strikes me as very much a longshot but man is it something needed. There are many alternate currencies (and may the best currency win), these are the ones worth mining with homebuilt computers. Dogecoin (nicest, most witty community on the Reddit forums) just sponsored the Jamaican bobsled team to the Olympics in two days of fundraising. Yes I own a few hundred dollars worth of Doge, but these young pups just keep deciding to just have fun and do good with Doge, it is honestly heartwarming and so I'll close with their mantra, Doge coin TO THE MOON!!!
    Last edited by ZPDM; 01-24-2014, 06:16 AM.

  • #2
    if you think the Elites are going to stand around and watch thier power base erode, think again. bit coin is subject to confiscation and shutdown by government entities. most likely it will soon be transaction taxed by most goevernments or central banks like the Fed in the U.S. you can also lose it thru hard drive crashes ore system upgrades where your vault is lost or forgotten. bitcoin is good for short term transactions only. its no different than any forex traded currency, there is leverage to be had, but please be careful.... would rather have gold, silver and commodities....

    Tom C


    experimental Kits, chargers and solar trackers

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by ZPDM View Post
      Yes I own a few hundred dollars worth of Doge, but these young pups just keep deciding to just have fun and do good with Doge, it is honestly heartwarming and so I'll close with their mantra, Doge coin TO THE MOON!!!

      shibainu-puppy-cam.jpg

      Getting my space suit ready.

      Comment


      • #4
        IF these cryptocurrencies can keep moving forward, it is the most important revolution in the history of mankind.

        The Federal Reserve (and all central banking systems) method is scribed on tablets in ancient Sumerian Cuneiform - it's that old.

        Debt goes up, value goes down and debt is on the shoulders of the citizens of the country. It is not about money, but about power and control and turning the masses into slaves.

        This cryptocurrency movement is the first thing in human history (that we know of) that has allowed people to seamlessly transition to a wide spread monetary system that is not in the "money changer's" hands.

        Around 100 cities in the USA accept bitcoin for utility payments, just got an email yesterday that Tiger Direct now accepts bitcoin, in France - you can receive your salary in Bitcoin, Russian govt and others are embracing it as a valid currency, etc.

        Microsoft, Apple, the guy behind investing in Twitter, etc... are all putting many millions into Bitcoin and the whole crypto currency movement. In the near future, email programs (outlook, thunderbird, etc...), browsers, every smartphone will all come stock with a built in Bitcoin and/or other cryptocoin interface to easily send and receive the coin. I don't think it is going away. JP Morgan is coming out with their own crypto currency - of course that is one to be leary of. Point is to get away from the banks, not support them even with their own crytp coins.

        The getting is good right now, especially when there are no tax liabilities for the coins. If you cash it out in dollars, then you have capital gains taxes, but its getting to the point that you don't need to cash it out in dollars or any other fiat currency because there is almost nothing you can't get with Bitcoin.

        Bitcoin is estimated to become 1-10% of the entire world currency supply meaning the projection for 1 bitcoin, which is about $800 now will be worth $100,000 to $1,000,000 per coin - and Litecoin is estimated to become up to $3000 per coin at the max. That is both when the last Bitcoin is created at a limit of 21,000,000 coins and Litecoin is at 84,000,000 coins - about 25 years from now - at least for Bitcoin.

        At minimum, it would be a good idea to at least have a couple Bitcoin and then leave it there for years down the road. Obviously it is a bit of speculation but so is the idea that there will be food at the grocery store tomorrow, but with the potential increase in the value down the road, it is crazy to not at least have a little bit. Print out your public and secret key and put it in a fireproof document box where you would keep passports, wills, etc... don't risk leaving that kind of thing on any computer.
        Aaron Murakami





        You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.” ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Tom C View Post
          if you think the Elites are going to stand around and watch thier power base erode, think again. bit coin is subject to confiscation and shutdown by government entities. most likely it will soon be transaction taxed by most goevernments or central banks like the Fed in the U.S. you can also lose it thru hard drive crashes ore system upgrades where your vault is lost or forgotten. bitcoin is good for short term transactions only. its no different than any forex traded currency, there is leverage to be had, but please be careful.... would rather have gold, silver and commodities....

          Tom C
          Tom,

          I certainly can understand your skepticism and caution however, the more I read the more I would just say the elites more than have their work cut out for them and who they are up against are the same sort that maintain the back ends on their banks. Regarding some of your points 1) I think they would love to shut it down, how? There are millions of people spread throughout the world mining and transacting with it every day, it has the same off switch as the internet. 2) Confiscation/loss/hard drive crash, while I like gold/silver and commodities gold actually does have a history of fairly recent confiscation and banning in the U.S. Lets say you have some bitcoin, you could have five copies on five thumb drives in two cities and as Aaron pointed out a paper copy in a vault. If they don't have your password, they might take a physical thumb drive but they can't spend it. That can't happen with gold. Or, if you are worried instead that your password might be compromised you can take one copy of your "wallet" split it into five pieces so that only someone finding all five pieces would have a usable wallet, can't do that with gold. Or one more, suppose you are concerned that someone might wish to confiscate your bitcoin, well two minutes before they knock on the door you send it to your cousin Balin in the misty mountains. Bitcon transactions are pseudoanyonymous, which, while I am not positive, I believe means basically they are tied to an IP address, so what if Balin just happened to be on the Wifi hotspot at the Misty Mountains coffee shop when he received your payment? Taxation, that's fine as it will just validate it further and likely why the US IRS isn't saying anything one way or another. A sales tax or transaction tax would be very difficult to implement especially over so many countries but would be a threat to some of the potential good of bitcoin. The one point I would really disagree with you on is that bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies are no different than any forex traded currency, there has never really been, that I know of, anything like this before. As Mr. Andressen touched on it solves the problem of how do you exchange a coin between two people who don't know each other without a central authority validating the coin and transaction, it goes all the way back to Ceasar's face on the coin and earlier. Well with cryptography you can validate that a bitcoin is a bitcoin (that part is not new and is used for instance to validate credit card transactions) but without a central authority keeping a ledger how do keep someone from sending the same "bitcoin" a thousand times over. That's the new part and it is a public ledger on every machine the whole ledger is compared thousands or millions of times over and only one transaction of a bitcoin can occur in a "block". Every few minutes a "block" of transactions gets locked down through encryption, now it can't be changed, it gets looked back at in the next block and confirmed and locked down again, and a third time and a fourth, or more, only then is the transaction accepted. The "central" authority is the network of computers validating the ledger.

          As for investing, well in some ways I'm not, I just paid for the parts for a computer, if things hold together for a few months it will have paid for itself and the rest will be a little bit of profit each month, until the computer is obsolete or heaven forbid some problem crashes the cryptocurrencies. I would just say though that when I checked coinmap at the start of the year there were 2,200 or so brick and mortar businesses accepting bitcoin (the real number is much higher as this is just a fun website someone started) as of today it is 2808. So at least from one datapoint, there is a 20-25 percent or more month on month growth at the moment with plenty of room to grow. That doesn't necessarily, mean the value of bitcoin will go up especially as transactions can happen very quickly, but if more people want to use it and there isn't that much supply being released, it stands to reason it would have to be worth more against goods and services or dollars. But who knows.

          I'll give one more example about this, over on the Dogecoin Reddit forum, they built a "tipbot" where you can tip any other user a few dogecoins (like 2 cents or a nickel) if you like their comment. They are going crazy with it over there and tipping all over the forum, as someone said "can you imagine when we can tip youtube videos". This is a whole nother unforseen element, an entirely new way to monetize content using secure, rapid microtransactions. In fact when someone talks down Dogecoin, they'll often just leave the person a tip, meaning he can accept it and lose credibility or refuse it. I'll shut up the last thing I am trying to do is ever tell anyone anything about investing, I think I made my point though that I am excited about these crytocurrencies and think they are a positive development.
          Last edited by ZPDM; 01-26-2014, 02:51 AM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Bluestix,

            Wow! much cute, so no threat to anyone, how money. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fileogecoin_alternate_logo.png
            Last edited by ZPDM; 01-26-2014, 02:40 AM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Aaron,

              I agree (well certainly the most important monetary revolution), and you sound even more enthusiastic than me. Why did I think you might like bitcoin? I'm following the dogecoin forum and I thought they might have been exaggerating this guys credentials but evidently Paul Bucheit did develop both gmail and Addsense, he just tweeted, "much amaze. so future. such invest dogecoin now. wow. to the moon!" https://twitter.com/paultoo It's all too crazy in a good way. Something tells me, if a wrench isn't thrown in the works, this time next year you will likely be monetizing excellent content and helping others monetize excellent content in Bitcoin, maybe Litecoin and just maybe Dogecoin. I'd certainly buy something here with bitcoin or a few doges. Let's keep our fingers crossed, figuratively speaking.
              Last edited by ZPDM; 01-26-2014, 05:49 AM.

              Comment


              • #8
                z,

                wow that was a long post!!! I did however read the whole thing. you make a lot of good points. remember the internet is controlled by someone and its not you and me.... the flow the NSA is monitoring everything now including all transactions, and there is no such thing as encryption that cannot be broken with enough processing power. like I said it has its place, and the reason I posted it is that it's just like forex is that it is traded and leveraged against world currencies all the time. now I realize the people that have created bitcoin have done a great job and its fantastic to use, but when the grid is gone and there is no electronic means of transferring wealth, I can still use a pre 65 silver coin for barter, or a bucket of rice, or some seed to grow a garden. that's why I prefer hard assets to digital ones for security. play the bitcoin game and play the fiat currency game its all good and its our medium of exchange for now, but look at the Weimar republic and you can see where the u.s. is headed.

                Tom C


                experimental Kits, chargers and solar trackers

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Tom C View Post
                  z,

                  wow that was a long post!!! I did however read the whole thing. you make a lot of good points. remember the internet is controlled by someone and its not you and me.... the flow the NSA is monitoring everything now including all transactions, and there is no such thing as encryption that cannot be broken with enough processing power. like I said it has its place, and the reason I posted it is that it's just like forex is that it is traded and leveraged against world currencies all the time. now I realize the people that have created bitcoin have done a great job and its fantastic to use, but when the grid is gone and there is no electronic means of transferring wealth, I can still use a pre 65 silver coin for barter, or a bucket of rice, or some seed to grow a garden. that's why I prefer hard assets to digital ones for security. play the bitcoin game and play the fiat currency game its all good and its our medium of exchange for now, but look at the Weimar republic and you can see where the u.s. is headed.

                  Tom C
                  T,

                  You've interacted with me enough on the forum to know once I get going I just like watching myself type I disagree with Aaron that this could be the biggest revolution, because whether you are talking bitcoins, fiat or silver coins it is still just a represenation of value. Using energy "more wisely" however, and a cold room is suddenly a warm room, sort of a big deal in the States at the moment, or water is pumped for a garden to grow. That said, the chance for a new system of currency to get out from under a corrupt, usurious, monopolistic banking system, priceless.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ZPDM View Post
                    I disagree with Aaron that this could be the biggest revolution, because whether you are talking bitcoins, fiat or silver coins it is still just a represenation of value.
                    The crypto coin movement is not just a monetary revolution - it is about freedom. As we all know, it doesn't matter who makes the laws, it is who makes the money.

                    "Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes it's laws." — Mayer Amschel Bauer Rothschild

                    This is the first time in recorded human history that the average person can do business or conduct other transactions without the money makers sticking their fingers in it.

                    These crypto currencies are 100% debt free, there is no usury fee attached, it's immune to inflation in the common sense that a fixed amount of bitcoin will ever be available and by the time a very large market establishes itself - demand for bitcoin will be through the roof while the supply is always fixed meaning the value will always be high, it is a true free market where only supply/demand dictates the value - they can't create more at the stroke of a pen or by some vote in congress, transactions can occur anonymously and encrypted, there is a 0% fraud rate out of billions of transactions - nobody will be able to modify the blockchain on every computer in the world, etc...

                    The #1 problem in the world for those in the USA is the Federal Reserve - for others in the world, their own central bank whether they want to see that or not. This crypto coin movement takes power away from the #1 problem in the world and is more effective, peaceful and powerful than a bloody revolution.

                    The #1 solution to destroying a dictatorship (and always will be) is to simply WITHDRAW SUPPORT. The Cryptocoin movement satisfies that exact requirement, which allows anyone to withdraw support of the central banking system in a very seamless and peaceful way.

                    Aside from religious or other "revolutions" (Christianity, whatever...) - this actually unites people as it satisfies the needs of everyone no matter their religious, philosophical, etc... beliefs are.

                    I'm all for gold and silver but diversification is a must.

                    --------------------------------------------------------

                    I'll propose 2 conspiracy theories I came up with in regards to crypto coins - LOL

                    1. The Annunaki created it and not Satoshi - this is to transition the world to crypto coins so people don't see much value in gold. Everyone dumps gold as worthless so in the end, the Annunaki comes in and scoops it all up leaving us with our crypto coins. Peaceful, slick and we never saw it coming.

                    2. The NSA created Bitcoin in order to develop the largest code breaking system in the world. Later, they will create their own crypto coin, which will actually be chains of codes they want broken and they only way to do it is to have thousands of miners around the world use their collective computing power to solve the problems. So, miners will actually be getting paid by the NSA to do their code breaking without ever knowing it.
                    Aaron Murakami





                    You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.” ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by ZPDM View Post
                      a cold room is suddenly a warm room, sort of a big deal in the States at the moment
                      But that is precisely what mining does - turn cold rooms into warm ones. And, you get paid to heat that room.
                      Aaron Murakami





                      You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.” ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Aaron Murakami View Post
                        The crypto coin movement is not just a monetary revolution - it is about freedom. As we all know, it doesn't matter who makes the laws, it is who makes the money.

                        "Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes it's laws." — Mayer Amschel Bauer Rothschild

                        This is the first time in recorded human history that the average person can do business or conduct other transactions without the money makers sticking their fingers in it.

                        These crypto currencies are 100% debt free, there is no usury fee attached, it's immune to inflation in the common sense that a fixed amount of bitcoin will ever be available and by the time a very large market establishes itself - demand for bitcoin will be through the roof while the supply is always fixed meaning the value will always be high, it is a true free market where only supply/demand dictates the value - they can't create more at the stroke of a pen or by some vote in congress, transactions can occur anonymously and encrypted, there is a 0% fraud rate out of billions of transactions - nobody will be able to modify the blockchain on every computer in the world, etc...

                        The #1 problem in the world for those in the USA is the Federal Reserve - for others in the world, their own central bank whether they want to see that or not. This crypto coin movement takes power away from the #1 problem in the world and is more effective, peaceful and powerful than a bloody revolution.

                        The #1 solution to destroying a dictatorship (and always will be) is to simply WITHDRAW SUPPORT. The Cryptocoin movement satisfies that exact requirement, which allows anyone to withdraw support of the central banking system in a very seamless and peaceful way.

                        Aside from religious or other "revolutions" (Christianity, whatever...) - this actually unites people as it satisfies the needs of everyone no matter their religious, philosophical, etc... beliefs are.

                        I'm all for gold and silver but diversification is a must.

                        --------------------------------------------------------

                        I'll propose 2 conspiracy theories I came up with in regards to crypto coins - LOL

                        1. The Annunaki created it and not Satoshi - this is to transition the world to crypto coins so people don't see much value in gold. Everyone dumps gold as worthless so in the end, the Annunaki comes in and scoops it all up leaving us with our crypto coins. Peaceful, slick and we never saw it coming.

                        2. The NSA created Bitcoin in order to develop the largest code breaking system in the world. Later, they will create their own crypto coin, which will actually be chains of codes they want broken and they only way to do it is to have thousands of miners around the world use their collective computing power to solve the problems. So, miners will actually be getting paid by the NSA to do their code breaking without ever knowing it.
                        While a bit different for the forum I wanted to respond and give you some late breaking news on Doge. Alright, so as revolutions go I would say monetary<energetic<spiritual and will say a bit more in a moment. I then agree with everything down to, "Aside from religious or other "revolutions" (Christianity, whatever...) - this actually unites people ..." Give me one instance, just one, of a "Christian" murdering another Christian, let alone another human being ... oh wait, darn it, (so darn cold today I went out for a walk and was thinking of Napoleon's retreat from Moscow). Still it is not Christ's fault he was publicly tortured to death (to rise again) through traitors, government powers, religious hypocrites and money changers, for trying to point the way out. "... it satisfies the needs of everyone no matter their religious, philosophical, etc... beliefs are" There's the rub, as there is still a clique of ill sociopaths whose perceived needs differ from that of the vast majority of people and unfortunately they still have a lot of power.

                        While there is lot going on now that put simply and ugly deserves the wrath of God, I am actually getting more modestly optimistic. A lot of things that seemed so frightening are backfiring, universal surveillance is being turned on the state with peoples cell phone cameras for instance. Can you imagine what the 20 somethings in the NSA may actually know about our so-called "leaders"? If things will just hold together a little while longer who would want to go to war if they say, "that's not what's going on at all, I just talked to my buddy in Bejing, besides I'm having dinner with him and his family next month". Not there yet, but maybe.

                        Alright as regards your conspiracy theories, nah, I think Satoshi is just a smart kid, and I think it just occurred to him, call it inspiration. But with the advent of the internet I think he understood not to make the mistakes anyone in his shoes would have 20 years ago. I'll give you my "conspiracy" theory now. I would say as to the monumental importance of bitcoin that there is a a synergism between money supply and free energy, i.e. apart from slandering, threatening or outright violence, it is usually bankrupting that stops advances. We see this right now with that Italian researcher (forgot his name) who developed cold fusion and has mortgaged his house to get it on the market, oy vei. Howeva, if we take that report of cold fusion (and others) as valid, if we accept the occasional disparate reports of "alchemy" then I'll tell you what I think. I think at the start, at the time of Newton, the Royal society was funded by the alchemy of Robert Boyle's father. Boyle (i.e. Boyle's gas laws) was instrumental in getting the English laws against alchemy at the time overturned, his father was the biggest landowner in Ireland, Newton spent the later part of his life studying alchemy, his European rival Liebniz, said, "of course alchemy is possible the only danger is it would devalue gold". Such quacks, I suppose. If this were true, and granted skewed by Newton's contributions, could you imagine what even a brief time of honest money would do for scientific advancement. So I think the three revolutions I mentioned are not all entirely unrelated.

                        Lastly, on the crypto front, as you likely heard they arrested some 20 something kid on money laundering (as opposed to HSBC where they just asked for a take of the loot) I'll hope and pray for him, on the silver lining side it tells me they don't yet have a technological attack. More positively, dogecoin just sponsored an Indian Luger, without funds to the Olympics in four hours of fund raising, I love that community. We've got the Jamaican bobsled team and an Indian Luger. I also think if the tipping going on with Doge spreads it will change the internet. Along with the monitization aspects, unlike with you Ommpa Loomphas when I write on the Doge subreddit I look to be concise and polite, (I think in the back of your mind you are hoping for that 0.2 cent tip). I am serious though, aside from the 1/3 of disrupters that are, well counterintel is too flattering, "paid losers", the other two thirds may actually be swayed by the thought of monetary compensation for a good comment. It may civilize comment boards. Got my first tip today from the guy who started the Indian Luger campaign for suggesting a Doge paw charity, giddy as a school girl to get it and retip it.
                        Last edited by ZPDM; 01-30-2014, 04:40 AM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Aaron Murakami View Post
                          But that is precisely what mining does - turn cold rooms into warm ones. And, you get paid to heat that room.
                          You got me there Aaron, maybe it was in the back of my mind, but your right once she gets hashin its just like having a 1200 watt space heater. As you clearly have some interest and experience here I'll mention I'm keeping an eye on this dualminer http://www.dualminer.com/, unlike the ASICs for SHA-256 it doesn't give any improvement in hash/cost, actually a bit worse, but it does only draw 1/10th the watts. So a single stick gives about 70 Khash/sec (Scyrpt mining only) and draws 2.5 watts. It is more expensive upfront, but just to have something that shuts the darn fans up, draws 1/10th the power and is (maybe?) plug and play into a powered USB hub just might be worth it. They sold out of their initial run of 50 and have a couple thousand coming in February, so as I said might be worth keeping an eye on, and one stick might make a nice gift to someone. ... I want to start "Tulipcoin" and watch it take over the banking industry.
                          Last edited by ZPDM; 01-31-2014, 05:07 AM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by ZPDM View Post
                            You got me there Aaron, maybe it was in the back of my mind, but your right once she gets hashin its just like having a 1200 watt space heater. As you clearly have some interest and experience here I'll mention I'm keeping an eye on this dualminer http://www.dualminer.com/, unlike the ASICs for SHA-256 it doesn't give any improvement in hash/cost, actually a bit worse, but it does only draw 1/10th the watts. So a single stick gives about 70 Khash/sec (Scyrpt mining only) and draws 2.5 watts. It is more expensive upfront, but just to have something that shuts the darn fans up, draws 1/10th the power and is (maybe?) plug and play into a powered USB hub just might be worth it. They sold out of their initial run of 50 and have a couple thousand coming in February, so as I said might be worth keeping an eye on, and one stick might make a nice gift to someone. ... I want to start "Tulipcoin" and watch it take over the banking industry.
                            I have some rigs in crates mining litecoin. My shop has no insulation on the outside walls - it is bare concrete to the freezing cold outside. My kitchen floor above is extremely cold since there is no insulation or ceiling just bare wood under the floor in the shop's ceiling. After about 10 days, with a box fan blowing on 2 rigs, the entire shop is cozy, the concrete walls to the outside are warm to the touch and my kitchen floor is actually warm to walk on. In the summer, I'll have to put in a AC or figure out some serious venting. But for winter, I'm looking at designing a heat exchanger to clip onto the heat sinks on the gpu's to preheat my boiler water and hot water tank water so I won't have to use any gas to heat my home.

                            650 watts per rig x 2 = 1300 watts. 1300 watt hours per hour at 8.5 cents per kw/h (7.5 but adding tax estimate) = 0.1105 per hour x 24 = $2.652 per day x 30 = $80. I get about 3400 khs for both rigs and that gives me about 1 ltc per day at the current difficulty rating. 30 coins x $21 current price = $630 per month. $630 / $80 = 787.5% return MONTHLY on what I spend in electricity. Net profit $550 per 2 rigs.

                            I have cheap enough electricity that the frpg?? scrypt miners aren't worth it for me yet. I sold a website to pay for the rigs (more coming - cards on backorder) so they're already paid for. For almost 800% return per month, it is completely nuts to not mine for litecoin at this point. I also have a box of amorphous 100 watt solar panels that I'm going to be putting on my roof. I held off because money is better spent scrypt mining, but I'm going to install them anyway with a battery bank. Anyone not scrypt mining is missing out an a once in a lifetime opportunity.

                            The above system for heating blows away every "free energy" heating system in the world - better than free energy, it's free money. I get paid to produce heat at 800% what I spend on the electricity to begin with.

                            Actually, over last several days, I turned all rigs to mining Teslacoin http://teslacoins.com - new coin, was premined about 3%, but it's irrelevant because the gave a LOT of it away, donated 10,000 to Eric in Tesla coin (donated by founder of Teslacoin), etc... and we now accept bitcoin, litecoin and Teslacoin for our digital products. http://emediapress.com/cryptocoins.php I'm going to be using coinpayments.net so will be taking 9 different coins and Teslacoin through that when they add Teslacoin to their system. Teslacoin is a great idea and the purpose of it is to help raise funds for energy researchers in Tesla technologies, etc... A & P Electronic Media (http://emediapress.com) is the first (and only right now) merchant in the world to accept Teslacoin - so pretty cool! It's at half a penny now but has been up to 4 cents just several days ago. With 2 rigs @ about 1700 khs each, that is about 8000 Teslacoin per day (240,000 per month) - and these can easily be $1 per coin in the next year just because the popularity of the name of the coin - and it's for a good cause.

                            With coinpayments, we'll be accepting bitcoin, litecoin, dogecoin, feathercoin, namecoin, novacoin, peercoin, quark & terracoin. Those are the main ones I'm interested in and Teslacoin, people can send payment to address directly.
                            Aaron Murakami





                            You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.” ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

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                            • #15
                              I picked up 4 R 290s right before the New Year and darn they were expensive. I was thinking to myself at the time, this is crazy, this is crazy, but I kept crunching the numbers and coming up with a payback time of 4-6 months, besides I wanted to see if I could build the computer and get it running. After some fits and starts I was mining litecoin with three cards a few days into the new year and 4 cards by the end of the first week. I'm getting about 800-820 kHz per card for a little over 3.2 mHz, I could try and overclock the cards for a few percent more but I'd rather not worry about something burning out. After this I switched to multipool which looks to automatically mine the most profitable coin and got lucky that they mined a lot of Doge at 40-50 and it has gone up a lot from there. Still even without a price breakout, I find multipool is generally 20 percent or more more profitable then litecoin mining. You end up with a handful of different coins at the end of the day but it is so cheap to trade coins you can put them all into litecoin or bitcoin with hardly any transaction loss. So right now I'm looking at breakeven in 3 months or a little less. Really, with resell value on Ebay, I'm probably around break even now if I cashed everything out and resold the parts today. So I'm already thinking end of Feb or end of March to build a second rig. Would like to use 7950s on the next one, they are just so hard to find now. Not sure after that as I don't want to start having breakers trip every time the refrigerator kicks on.

                              To keep track of things, and reassure myself, I've started following bitcoin pulse it is showing 20-25 percent month to month bitcoin merchant adoption and wallet adoption. That is conservatively 8 fold growth a year. As I would say usage, demand, drives price, well bitcoin likely got a good bit ahead of itself in November, but I would think a two fold price increase in 2014, barring major problems, is fairly conservative. The New York regulatory meeting was remarkably non-combative, this just may possibly, uh maybe, be here to stay, though it is still a bit of a drop in the bucket right now. The greater danger might be that it gets co-opted by nefarious types, say an exorbitant transaction tax like Tom C implied, that could possibly lead directly to the terrible one world currency of lore. While I have no illusions that any sort of "money" can't be corrupted by the worser parts of human nature, the previous system has 100s or 1000s of years of built in fraud and deceit, this is both new and has pretty powerful safeguards built in. And while small, there has already been 10 billion dollars of credit put into the world system, while banks will not even lend out their usurious debt notes to a starving world.

                              Teslacoin you say, had not heard of it, thank you. Things are moving at warp 9 man, it is really hard to keep up. When I build my second rig in a month or two, one of the first things I will do is mine it for a couple days so I can purchase Dr. Lindemann's book on electric motors in Teslacoin, been meaning to buy that for months now. I will say though that I wasn't entirely joking about liking Dogecoin because it is, for lack of a better word, cute. It does everything bitcoin and others do, but it is puppies and rescue dogs and Olympics and silly grammar. I'll mine Teslacoin (especially if I hear it needs it) but I think it will have a 5 inch splotch on the radar screen from 500 miles out. I will certainly support it, but long term I like doge, lite and bitcoin and just possibly in that order.
                              Last edited by ZPDM; 02-02-2014, 02:22 AM.

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