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Thread: Lead alum battery attempt

  1. #1

    Lead alum battery attempt

    Hi all,

    After building several successful lead/alum cells from old 12V gel cell batteries and testing my alum/water mix... I decided to try to make my first alum battery using a new Napa GS 12 volt (8 Ah) motorcycle battery.

    I mixed the alum with warm distilled water in a blender to a nice constancy, "just a bit slippery between the fingers" , so I think it is good. I let the battery sit for about an hour before I applied the first charge, to ensure that the cells were evenly saturated. Looking back....I decided to charge the battery up on my SG energizer for its first charge, so I think the plates may not have been formed correctly.

    I dont seem to be getting the final open circuit voltage to hold above 10.75 VDC. The battery takes a charge to about 13.99 volts, then drops off to 10.75 volts when the charger is removed. I tested the capacity with at load at C10 (1.2 amps) and the voltage just drops off, dramatically within 30 minutes.



    Any help would be appreciated, thank you
    Last edited by rmarquette; 04-14-2013 at 09:41 PM.

  2. #2
    Senior Member John_Koorn's Avatar
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    Hi rmarquette,

    I think you are right, the plates have not been formed correctly. I would charge the battery with a constant DC current source a few times to form the plates before using your SSG.

    John K.

  3. #3
    Ok, John.

    So basically you are recommending a constant current charge (CC) as opposed to a constant potential charge (CP ). After the initial SSG charge and the weak capacity test, I attempted to "rescue" the battery with a traditional battery charger. I believe the charger I am using is a constant potential charger and that is why I am getting such a limited capacity.

    I actually work with both Ni Cad and Lead Acid aircraft batteries at my job.We generally perform a constant current charge on the batteries with high end Christie and Superseder chargers. In my shop at home I would probably have to use a regulated power supply with variable current and voltage.


    Thanks, Ray

  4. #4
    Well, I went back to the wood shed and reviewed more of John's ( JB) videos on lead alum conversion.... based on what I have learned from JB, I believe that the plates in my alum battery experiment were not properly "differentiated". In fact, a battery which is formed exclusively with the alum solution and not the traditional sulfuric acid electrolyte will represent a different level of performance than a battery formed with sulfuric acid.

    This would explain why the used flooded lead acid batteries ( like the ones BroMikey used) which are flushed, drained and dried seem to respond so well to the conversion process. These batteries have plates which were formed with the acid electrolyte in the traditional manner. I dont think the batteries I used would respond favorably to being formed with sulfuric acid, then cleaned etc and converted to a lead alum. It would be difficult to clear the acid from the cells with the paper-like separators.

  5. #5
    Hi!
    I would like to learn more about this, may I please ask what is the best alum water mix ratio?
    What would be the benefits of a very thick liquid of alum and water versus the thinner mix of 3 cups alum to a gallon water?
    I am sure this has been tested and I would like to to what is best mix for deep cycle batteries?
    Thank you very much!

  6. #6
    ok ThankyouBedini,

    Maybe I am not the one to answer this question... since my battery turned out the way it did.

    In this video Conversion Of A Dry-Charge Lead Acid Battery To an Alum Crystal Cell Battery John Bedini - YouTube John basically demonstrates the mix ratio. He says, it needs to be slippery between your fingers. So that is what I did. I started with a cup of warm distilled water ( 8 oz) and added 1 Tbls then tested it , the 1 more Tbls then tested it, etc... until I got a mixture as John described in his video.

    In the end, I decided between 5-6 Tbls per each 8 ounces of water, which roughly translates to 1/4 cup of alum to 1 cup of water.

  7. #7
    Hi!
    So your mix was about a 25 % solution alum and water. That is for a Lead Alum battery conversion.
    There is also talk about Crystal Batteries, so to make solid alum crystals I think you will need a stronger solution than 25 % for it to become a hard crystal.
    How will a solid crystal battery behave different than a alum battery?
    Thanks!

  8. #8
    Yes for the solid crystal batteries you need a different mix. Here JB basically gives an idea of how to make a solid crystal battery How To Build It A Lead Alum Hydrate Battery John Bedini - YouTube.

    Good question... I don't know how it would behave in terms of load capacity.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Faraday88's Avatar
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    you are right John, i did the same and now its working as good as a Lead-Acid Battery....
    Rgds,
    Faraday88.

  10. #10
    Hi everyone I hope your doing well

    I was wondering how I will know if I did the conversion properly also I need to know what equipment I need for testing
    Batteries after conversion one tool I think I need is a multimeter with pc hook up any suggestions please

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