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Thread: First Bedini build - it runs but itís HOT!

  1. #1
    Member Archangel's Avatar
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    First Bedini build - it runs but itís HOT!

    First Bedini build - it runs but itís HOT!

    Hi Guys, I'm new to this forum and I've joined up in the hope of connecting with other like-minded people and to hopefully overcome issues that I encounter as I build more of these devices and hopefully improve, innovate and share some of my own ideas.

    Have been studying the Bedini monopole for some time and bought the beginners handbook as I was having a few problems with my first attempt and hoped it might shed some light on troubleshooting.

    I've got it running, (please see pictures,) however when I removed the charging battery to see the radiant flash in the neon bulb, the 100 ohm resister burnt out after a few minutes . I tried several other resistors of increased capacity up to 300 ohms however all I eventually did was to make the transistor get very hot.

    Tried magnets at various heights above coil and different potentiometer positions however it still burns out the resistor over time. When it runs with the charging battery connected it doesnít burn out but still gets very hot.

    Used correct components however I was a little naughty and used small Ĺ inch square by ľĒ deep neoís instead of strontium ferrite Ė (however Iíve increased the gap between the coil and wheels,) and the magnets are quite small so I thought it would still run OK.

    Any ideas on why the resistor and transistor are getting so hot and what I can do to improve things would be appreciated.

    Thanks
    Attached Images Attached Images

  2. #2
    Hi Archangel,

    You have a very nice looking build. It is obvious you have taken a lot of time putting it together. Your problems were caused by you running it without a charge battery connected. I don't have the handbook but I feel real sure it says to never run the monopole without a charge battery connected. I know this has been posted at least several hundred times on the different forums and threads about the SSG. The neon is a safety device. It is there to help protect the transistor if you ACCIDENTALLY forget to connect the charge battery. It is not there to be an indicator of radiant energy. If you see the charge battery slowly going up in charge that is your indication the circuit is working.

    When you ran it without the charge battery you damaged your transistor. That is why it is getting hot now. That is also why the resistor is heating up. You will have to replace the transistor and the resistor. If you ran it for several minutes without a charge battery you may have also damaged the neon. To make sure you have protection for your new transistor I would suggest you replace the neon also.

    There is already at least one thread on this forum that explains why using neos is not a good idea. Please read that thread and then change the magnet to the proper type. You will then have a system that does what it is supposed to do.

    Respectfully,
    Carroll

  3. #3
    Member Archangel's Avatar
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    Thanks for your positive, insightful and instructive comments, I did put quite a lot of work into this build and I'm pleased with how it turned out; having read your post I'm even happier that my problem was simply removing the charging battery for too long and all I have to do is replace a few parts, (and maybe make a bigger heat sink.)

    I hear what you’re saying about the neo's and have ordered 50 ceramics of the right size and 2500 feet of 23 & 26 gauge magnet wire for my next Bedini projects. I will try to resist the temptation of disconnecting the charging battery however seeing, (for the first time,) the normal orange glow of the neon bulb change color to a deep blue purple had a powerful effect on me and strongly indicated, (to me at least,) that this radiant energy may well be a real phenomenon.

    I'm looking forward to running, testing and recording my results, (according to the scientific method,) and proving to myself the claims I've heard about this device.

    Thanks for your input, kind regards - Wayne

  4. #4
    Hi, congratulations on having it work. I'm a complete newbie still trying to achieve noticeable rotation but I have some ideas that might help.

    - IIRC The 100 ohm resistor has to be 1/2 watt. 1/4 watt are delicate.
    - The battery being charged should not be disconnected for safety of the transistor. I've already burnt one due to carelessness.
    - A heatsink attached to the transistor for its safety would be a bit more forgiving as it heats up fast in the event of a mistake.
    - Replace the overheated transistor if you're still burning resistors.
    - IIRC use No. 20 AWG wire for all connections, solder them and then insulate with electrical tape to avoid short circuits. This is from another thread.

    Apologies for any linguistic mistakes since english is not my language. I hope you find something of use in what I've written.

  5. #5
    Hi Archangel,

    Glad I could be of some help. A heat sink is not really necessary. I have built about 5 or 6 different SSGs and helped several other people get theirs going. We did not have a heat sink on any of them. I have never had a transistor get even warm as long as the charge battery is connected and everything is tuned properly. You will see some pictures showing a heat sink on some of the builds John Bedini has done. It was explained in another post on this forum those heat sinks were there because John was trying different circuits and seeing how much he could get out of them. If your transistor is getting hot there is a problem somewhere. Most of the time the problem is the transistor is damaged. In this circuit the over-voltage hitting the transistor is what damages it, not heat. As I said before the over-voltage comes from having the charge battery disconnected. A transistor that will take more abuse is the MJL21194. This can be used in this circuit with no problem. It will take a little higher over-voltage before being damaged so you have a little more protection. However you still don't want to run the SSG without the charge battery. Good luck on your repairs and hope you get it running soon,

    Respectfully,
    Carroll

  6. #6
    Networking Architect Aaron Murakami's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archangel View Post
    (and maybe make a bigger heat sink.)
    Wayne,

    Congratulations on your build!

    You said you had the Beginner's handbook - if you build the system according to the attraction running mode, you shouldn't need any heat sinks - even the small basic ones are fine. In attraction mode, the transistors are way cooler than if you run it in repulsion mode.
    Aaron Murakami





    ďYou never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.Ē ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

  7. #7
    Member Archangel's Avatar
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    Thank you very much for all your replies and through the information you have given and my personal experience of burning out 10 resistors, two transistors, two neon's and a diode, I discovered what was causing the problem. The issue was that I was incorrectly reading the ohm values on the resistor and not realising that the third color band was a multiplier and not a digit; hence what I thought was a 100 ohm resister was in fact a 10 ohm resister, and hence all the burn outs. (Also removing the charging battery terminal to see the neon flash didn't help either.)

    Also I forget to mention that when I wound the coil I used gauges AWG 20 & 24, (found out later there should only be 3 gauges difference max,)and also that I ran out of #24 after only 336 turns so these factors may also play a part in what's happening.

    Thanks again for your input and it's great to be a part of a community that genuinely wants to help its members!
    Last edited by Archangel; 04-07-2013 at 12:19 AM.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Forrest's Avatar
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    Hi Wayne,

    I too have had the problem of burning out a resistor. BIG ONES! A few things first!.......the trigger circuit is really just a standalone alternator. Whch means this!.....the faster the wheel turns the higher the current output on the alternator and the hotter the resistor gets! The neo magnets have a very intense magnetic field which makes a hell of a lot of current from the alternator. Way way more than the ceramic magnets! So lets add up the neos plus the rpm and we have a very high power output from the alternating trigger cicuit.

    Now we need to reduce the power.....via the resistor ......to reduce the current to allow the transistor gate to open just at the correct time. Too much reduction and the gate will not open.....too little reduction and the gate stays open a long long time. If we have a very high output alternating trigger circuit then we need to reduce this current with a very big resistor. This is one of the resons why JB says not to use neo magnets. They produce way too much trigger circuit power.

    If you will read thru my thread below you will se that with my prototype I have a very intense trigger circuit on this rig because of the large magnets. I am reducing the current with a tractor light bulb and a very large resistor "5" in dia" on the trigger cicuit to make all of the transistors fire correctly. These transistors require only a very little bit of current to make the gate open. This whole SG system is a very delicate little devise and relies on many of the components to be correct to run like the original design by JB.

    This machine is RPM sensitive and magnet sensitive because of the reasons above. I hope I have explained this so you can grasp the idea of the alternating trigger cicuit power output. At the end of the day you could rewind the trigger cicuit with a smaller wire or with less turns......or leave it alone and put a bigger ressitor in the line......or change the magnets. Any of these senarios will work. But you will have to refigure the resisitor size to retune the cicuit for the best transistor gate opening.


    http://www.energyscienceforum.com/be...ve-output.html

    Hope this helps.

    Bud
    Do not procrastinate! Make something happen...even if it is wrong. Once begun half done!

  9. #9
    Nice SG archangel.

    I had the same problem on my final project as well. I built so many mini-bedini SG devices with relatively low output, I thought it was normal operation to have those lamps a-glowing hot pink. I am sure the book mentions hooking up the battery first, in the operation instructions, but I never read that part of the book

    It can be a major setback if you dont have any spares. Anyone who has never burned out a transistor, has probably never turned it on.

  10. #10
    Member Archangel's Avatar
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    Thanks guys and sorry for the late reply - been very busy. Forrest, Thanks for explaining about the Neo's large trigger voltage effecting the gate timing; I will be using ceramics on my next Bedini. I had a look at your build and was impressed by the scale of your system; your obviously using far move power than my two 7ah battries and I'm not surprised your experiencing some heat issues - I was wondering what the RPM was on your wheel, it looks very fast in the picture.
    Rmarquette - I have learned not to remove the charging battery because I eventually ran out of spares by burning up so many components - learned that lesson well.

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