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Thread: Plasma Ignition | Plasma Jet Ignition

  1. #951
    what I'm confused about is what looks like a bus-bar across the diodes in your pic, @rokan. I'm not sure why you've connected the diodes like that. Could this be why you're getting misfires?

    EDIT:

    I see what you're doing now, I think.
    I'm not sure you've applied this correctly.
    Is it possible that you're unclear on some of the terminology, as in, something is being lost in translation from/to English?
    Could you show us your distributor and coil/igniter and how the factory set it up, before your modifications? I ask because the wire you show in post #939 looks like a coil near plug ignition wire to me, and that's different than the traditional coil-cap-rotor setup Aaron designed for. Also, a 1996 model year whatever (toyota? honda?) probably has a waste spark ignition.

    EDIT2:
    Yup, that totally looks more like a waste spark coil than a distributor to me...but it's also likely that I could be mistaken. Any chance you can get the wires out of the way and try your best to not have it shadowed? (yes, I know you'll need more hands/arms to do that)
    Last edited by heysoundude; 08-29-2018 at 08:51 PM.

  2. #952
    Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by rokan View Post
    This distributor has an igniter module mounted on the fender well, could that be part of the problem?

    Or maybe I need to completely remove the internal coil from the distributor? Even though it makes up a good portion of the distributor I could always tape off the exposed area I guess??

    Have you looked at the engine running in the dark? Arcing shows up much better in the dark.

    Richard Gieseer

  3. #953
    Quote Originally Posted by heysoundude View Post
    what I'm confused about is what looks like a bus-bar across the diodes in your pic, @rokan. I'm not sure why you've connected the diodes like that. Could this be why you're getting misfires?

    EDIT:

    I see what you're doing now, I think.
    I'm not sure you've applied this correctly.
    Is it possible that you're unclear on some of the terminology, as in, something is being lost in translation from/to English?
    Could you show us your distributor and coil/igniter and how the factory set it up, before your modifications? I ask because the wire you show in post #939 looks like a coil near plug ignition wire to me, and that's different than the traditional coil-cap-rotor setup Aaron designed for. Also, a 1996 model year whatever (toyota? honda?) probably has a waste spark ignition.

    EDIT2:
    Yup, that totally looks more like a waste spark coil than a distributor to me...but it's also likely that I could be mistaken. Any chance you can get the wires out of the way and try your best to not have it shadowed? (yes, I know you'll need more hands/arms to do that)
    I speak perfect English! I guess you aren't understanding exactly what is going on and how the circuit is wired? 1 side of ALL of the diodes is connected to the positive of the coil, thus the bus-bar connecting ALL the diodes together and thus using 1 wire to connect to the coil. And then the other end on each diode is connected individually to each plug.
    I will work on the coil/igniter circuti when I can dig up that exact info.
    What coil are you looking at? There is NO coil near the plug ignition wire? Maybe you are confusing my modified plug wire which has a connector protected with plastic tubing that is used for my diode wire connection.
    It is not waste spark ignition, it fires one cylinder at a time as the rotor spins inside the distributor cap.

    If you look at the 2nd pic in #939 it shows exactly what my modified spark plug wires look like without having the engine in the background.
    Last edited by rokan; 08-30-2018 at 01:54 AM.

  4. #954
    Quote Originally Posted by rokan View Post
    I speak perfect English! I guess you aren't understanding exactly what is going on and how the circuit is wired? 1 side of ALL of the diodes is connected to the positive of the coil, thus the bus-bar connecting ALL the diodes together and thus using 1 wire to connect to the coil. And then the other end on each diode is connected individually to each plug.
    I will work on the coil/igniter circuti when I can dig up that exact info.
    What coil are you looking at? There is NO coil near the plug ignition wire? Maybe you are confusing my modified plug wire which has a connector protected with plastic tubing that is used for my diode wire connection.
    It is not waste spark ignition, it fires one cylinder at a time as the rotor spins inside the distributor cap.

    If you look at the 2nd pic in #939 it shows exactly what my modified spark plug wires look like without having the engine in the background.
    Of course you do. don't we all? English is the most precise and clear language, after all.

    I'm looking at the first pic in post #939 with a bunch of red and grey ignition wires run to a component behind a cooling hose. I'd like to see that component more clearly before I apologize for offending.

    busbar on diodes: trying to picture the energy flow in that configuration to help wrap my head around the misfire. why isn't each diode connected to the secondary of the coil individually? the way you have it (I think), the electrical energy flying around the engine fails to be targeted at the cylinder that needs to fire and goes everywhere. (the diodes clamp down AT/above a specific voltage but are otherwise open, and that voltage may be enough to cause a spark where there usually isnt one, right?)

    I like the idea of running it in the dark...

  5. #955
    Quote Originally Posted by heysoundude View Post
    Of course you do. don't we all? English is the most precise and clear language, after all.

    I'm looking at the first pic in post #939 with a bunch of red and grey ignition wires run to a component behind a cooling hose. I'd like to see that component more clearly before I apologize for offending.

    busbar on diodes: trying to picture the energy flow in that configuration to help wrap my head around the misfire. why isn't each diode connected to the secondary of the coil individually? the way you have it (I think), the electrical energy flying around the engine fails to be targeted at the cylinder that needs to fire and goes everywhere. (the diodes clamp down AT/above a specific voltage but are otherwise open, and that voltage may be enough to cause a spark where there usually isnt one, right?)

    I like the idea of running it in the dark...
    Forget about the diodes for a moment! Please re-read what I have posted! It misfires with NO DIODES ATTACHED! AGAIN, When only my wire is attached to the plug cable with NOTHING attached on the other end it causes the whole engine to misfire???

    I'm sorry but you are wrong about the busbar wiring, it is a common connection for the 4 diodes on that common end that connects to the coil but STILL that is a moot point because as I have described several times before it misfires with no diodes or busbar connected to any of my wiring??

    If you notice in the pic there is NOTHING connected to the other end of my red diode jumper wire and just having that wire plugged into my modified cable it completely screws up the spark for the plugs to fire properly???

  6. #956
    Hi Rokan,

    It appears in the photo you posted, and from your description, that you have three separate wires spliced together underneath some electrical tape. If so, this would be a prime location for the high voltage to short to ground and cause misfiring. Is this a soldered joint, or what kind of connection did you make here?

    It's also possible that the short length of zero resistance wire that attaches to the plug is emitting enough RFI to disrupt either the electronic triggering device in the distributor or the MSD module itself. If it's RFI causing the problem, you may need to replace the whole set of plug wires with low resistance (40 to 350 ohms/ft), magnetic cored, spiral wound wires and then fasten the diode wires directly to the plug terminals inside the plug boot. That's what I did on my high performance air cooled VW engine, and it runs great all the way up to it's 6000 RPM redline.
    Gary Hammond,

  7. #957
    Networking Architect Aaron Murakami's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rokan View Post
    Forget about the diodes for a moment! Please re-read what I have posted! It misfires with NO DIODES ATTACHED! AGAIN, When only my wire is attached to the plug cable with NOTHING attached on the other end it causes the whole engine to misfire???

    I'm sorry but you are wrong about the busbar wiring, it is a common connection for the 4 diodes on that common end that connects to the coil but STILL that is a moot point because as I have described several times before it misfires with no diodes or busbar connected to any of my wiring??

    If you notice in the pic there is NOTHING connected to the other end of my red diode jumper wire and just having that wire plugged into my modified cable it completely screws up the spark for the plugs to fire properly???
    Connecting all diodes together at the end that goes to the coil + and each diode going individually to their own plug is definitely correct. The only diode that will be used like that will be whatever plug fires, the the rest of the cap discharges through that diode over the gap.

    If the distributor cap arcing is a problem, it's feasible but would be the first time I've heard of anyone encountering that problem.

    The previous owner of the Datsun I have changed the distributor's points/rotor systems to an electronic ignition so I never had the opportunity to have that problem if that is what is even happening. That is one option possible is that if that is a problem, you could replace the distributor with an electronic ignition. Then you just use the magnetic pickup input for the MSD.

    As far as your hookup goes, it's correct. Each diode to the wire spiced into the ignition cables should be just fine.

    Although you tested the diodes in both directions and get a spark in one direction but not the other, I would still do the definitive test with the ignition coil HV output to see the polarity with the pencil test.
    Aaron Murakami





    You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete. ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

  8. #958
    Networking Architect Aaron Murakami's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Hammond View Post
    Hi Rokan,

    It appears in the photo you posted, and from your description, that you have three separate wires spliced together underneath some electrical tape. If so, this would be a prime location for the high voltage to short to ground and cause misfiring. Is this a soldered joint, or what kind of connection did you make here?

    It's also possible that the short length of zero resistance wire that attaches to the plug is emitting enough RFI to disrupt either the electronic triggering device in the distributor or the MSD module itself. If it's RFI causing the problem, you may need to replace the whole set of plug wires with low resistance (40 to 350 ohms/ft), magnetic cored, spiral wound wires and then fasten the diode wires directly to the plug terminals inside the plug boot. That's what I did on my high performance air cooled VW engine, and it runs great all the way up to it's 6000 RPM redline.
    The cables should definitely be suited for capacitive discharge.
    Aaron Murakami





    You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete. ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

  9. #959
    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron Murakami View Post
    Connecting all diodes together at the end that goes to the coil + and each diode going individually to their own plug is definitely correct. The only diode that will be used like that will be whatever plug fires, the the rest of the cap discharges through that diode over the gap.

    If the distributor cap arcing is a problem, it's feasible but would be the first time I've heard of anyone encountering that problem.

    The previous owner of the Datsun I have changed the distributor's points/rotor systems to an electronic ignition so I never had the opportunity to have that problem if that is what is even happening. That is one option possible is that if that is a problem, you could replace the distributor with an electronic ignition. Then you just use the magnetic pickup input for the MSD.

    As far as your hookup goes, it's correct. Each diode to the wire spiced into the ignition cables should be just fine.

    Although you tested the diodes in both directions and get a spark in one direction but not the other, I would still do the definitive test with the ignition coil HV output to see the polarity with the pencil test.
    I read and re-read the pencil test and still something isn't clear to me how to perform that test?

  10. #960
    It isn't mis-firing thru my electrical connection, I have checked and re-checked that. It isn't a plug shorting out as I described earlier because that would mean just one cylinder isn't firing. AGAIN, when I do the test with only 1 of my modified wires connected to #1 cylinder the whole engine mis-fires when I connect one end of my diode jumper wire to my spliced connection and it isn't touching anything!!?? Again, open on the other end, nothing connected to it, no direct electrical connection to anything, it is a wire that is ONLY connected at the plug wire junction I made and nothing at the other end.

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