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Thread: Plasma Ignition | Plasma Jet Ignition

  1. #861
    Quote Originally Posted by Faraday88 View Post
    The article in general speaks 'paralleling' the coils but doesn't go in depth of how exactly... in my opinion, the auxiliary coil who's output (socket) is shut is more under stress and eventually will aware out due to the preferential path of the discharge happening through it! (combined stress of both the coils) only the primaries are in parallel..
    Rgds,
    Faraday88.
    Yes, exactly the primaries are in parallel and there is no direct connection of the secondaries.

    It seems that this is done on purpose, (of course), since if the coils are not matched, (and how this can be done under the circumstances of the massive, (even limited), production of a car), there is a possibility, connecting the secondaries, that the one coil discharges into the other disturbing the total operation.

    By connecting only the primaries this possibility is eliminated and all the power of the auxiliary coil is always available properly.

    On the other hand, Jag's enthusiasts say that this double coil Lucas system is(was) the best for the v12 engine, since there is a continuous flow of power for all 12 cylinders vs the next, divided, 2x6 ignition, where, when the one bank was misfiring the other worked and the final result was an engine fire.

  2. #862

    Honda Fuel MPG

    Quote Originally Posted by heysoundude View Post
    Ron - the EFIE needs to be adjusted to your application; that said, if you poke around on the Eagle Research website, you'll find that there is a good range to start your adjusting. Did you watch George's video? https://youtu.be/zGXxXM_lzAQ
    Yes, I watched it a while back, I'll have to review it again.
    But also what I have seen mentioned is that specific strength magnets are needed because to strong or to weak will not work well? I also have seen mentioned that pole orientation makes a big difference, that is why I am asking what kind of magnets you used and what their strength was and how you have them oriented on the fuel hose?

    Also, did you make your own additive mixture or was it over the counter?

    Thanks again,
    Ron

  3. #863
    Senior Member Faraday88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellenic Vanagon View Post
    Yes, exactly the primaries are in parallel and there is no direct connection of the secondaries.

    It seems that this is done on purpose, (of course), since if the coils are not matched, (and how this can be done under the circumstances of the massive, (even limited), production of a car), there is a possibility, connecting the secondaries, that the one coil discharges into the other disturbing the total operation.

    By connecting only the primaries this possibility is eliminated and all the power of the auxiliary coil is always available properly.

    On the other hand, Jag's enthusiasts say that this double coil Lucas system is(was) the best for the v12 engine, since there is a continuous flow of power for all 12 cylinders vs the next, divided, 2x6 ignition, where, when the one bank was misfiring the other worked and the final result was an engine fire.

    Hi Hellenic Vanagon,
    Good collection though! these archival facts form essential documentation for research purpose nonetheless !!
    Rgds,
    Faraday88.
    'The Magnetic Field is the gatekeeper of the Wheather on the Earth'' - John Bedini.

  4. #864
    Quote Originally Posted by Faraday88 View Post
    Hi Hellenic Vanagon,
    Good collection though! these archival facts form essential documentation for research purpose nonetheless !!
    Rgds,
    Faraday88.
    Τhank you.

    In my applied research now arising a lot of questions:

    #1 Is really the current doubled that way? On the bench experiments the sound level and the pitch become more intense connecting the auxiliary coil, feeding the standard gap, whichever it is.

    #2 How well this can be handled by the distributor? A Bosch, small cap, distributor handles up to 30.000 V but nowhere is a reference about the Amperage, so it must be minuscule with the standard configuration, which, in the case of a vw digifant engine, has a triggering of up to 7A, but seems that never is reached and it is there to give a safety margin.

    #3 The digifant ECU demands a coil of 0.5 Ω ~ 0.8 Ω. Paralleling the two coils I have, which are 0.8 Ω, the resistance is halved to 0.4 Ω. Is this really dangerous for the ECU or it is within the safety limits?

    #4 What will happen to the coils, since the discharge path for the auxiliary is not the supposed. (This point is beyond of my understanding: when the low voltage ECU's circuit is shot dead by the high voltage, why nothing is burned? Is it protected somehow?). Anyway, in the case of the Lucas "continuous power supply system", everywhere is stressed that the twin coils are of a conventional design and nothing special exists about them.

    Another unexpected factor is that when I constructed my plasma module , just by accident, I gave this solution using an Audi v6 coil in the position of the capacitor, which works, perfectly, for several months now, giving no signs of internal damage.

  5. #865
    Senior Member Faraday88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellenic Vanagon View Post
    Τhank you.

    In my applied research now arising a lot of questions:

    #1 Is really the current doubled that way? On the bench experiments the sound level and the pitch become more intense connecting the auxiliary coil, feeding the standard gap, whichever it is. Yes, This is a kind of the Radiant Amplification i feel something like what happens in a Lightning discharge.. no one can predict what instance the lightning discharge is Series or Parallel Resonant or are they both happening simultaneously asymmetrically ?? one thing is for sure A lightning discharge is COP>> 1 Mechanism which means the Energy released is much higher than what is involved in 'Separating' the Charges!

    #2 How well this can be handled by the distributor? A Bosch, small cap, distributor handles up to 30.000 V but nowhere is a reference about the Amperage, so it must be minuscule with the standard configuration, which, in the case of a vw digifant engine, has a triggering of up to 7A, but seems that never is reached and it is there to give a safety margin. yes its a over kill!

    #3 The digifant ECU demands a coil of 0.5 Ω ~ 0.8 Ω. Paralleling the two coils I have, which are 0.8 Ω, the resistance is halved to 0.4 Ω. Is this really dangerous for the ECU or it is within the safety limits? Look!, when you use CDI or the Plasma Ignition the lower the primary impedance the better it is..you can infact have several primaries in parallel magnetically coupled in the ignition coil to get incredible boost!

    #4 What will happen to the coils, since the discharge path for the auxiliary is not the supposed. (This point is beyond of my understanding: when the low voltage ECU's circuit is shot dead by the high voltage, why nothing is burned? Is it protected somehow?). Anyway, in the case of the Lucas "continuous power supply system", everywhere is stressed that the twin coils are of a conventional design and nothing special exists about them. The primary side is 'Protected' to a certain the level but seriously speaking the kick back by mutual Inductance can be dangerous for the ECU. there is no know method to predict the Radiant mode of damage that can result in such situation.

    Another unexpected factor is that when I constructed my plasma module , just by accident, I gave this solution using an Audi v6 coil in the position of the capacitor, which works, perfectly, for several months now, giving no signs of internal damage.
    You have essentially stumbled with a lucky tweaking about the coil (auxillary) in the way it is internally wound...yes it is Capacitor equivalent in a sense!!

    Rgds,
    Faraday88
    'The Magnetic Field is the gatekeeper of the Wheather on the Earth'' - John Bedini.

  6. #866
    Quote Originally Posted by Faraday88 View Post
    You have essentially stumbled with a lucky tweaking about the coil (auxillary) in the way it is internally wound...yes it is Capacitor equivalent in a sense!!

    Rgds,
    Faraday88
    Thank you very much.

  7. #867
    Senior Member Faraday88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellenic Vanagon View Post
    Thank you very much.
    You are welcome Hellenic Vanagon... always keep up with the Spirit of Scientific query!!
    Rgds,
    Faraday88.
    'The Magnetic Field is the gatekeeper of the Wheather on the Earth'' - John Bedini.

  8. #868
    Now I know: 6A-7A current are, in fact, used by the primary, (although, at the secondary, the amperage is at mA):

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pbV...ew?usp=sharing

    LINK: http://dtec.net.au/Ignition%20Coil%2...alibration.htm

    Now does any one know what can happen, (to the ECU), connecting two ignition coils in, (primary & secondary), parallel, feeding them by the same triggering module, which is designed just for one coil?

    In the above, excellent, linked, article it is mentioned: " Primary voltage usually lies in the 300- 400V range and is electronically ‘clamped’ in most systems to prevent the switching device being damaged".

    So it seems that, usually, there is an overloading protection.

    But there are so many other aspects, f.ex.,

    #1 using two coils, are they operating cooler, important factor to their sensitive resistance vs temperature?

    #2 is their rising coefficient improved by halving(?) their operational stress?

    At least, this is claimed by the next article excerpt about the Jag's system:

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Cw0...ew?usp=sharing


    #3 is it better the auxiliary/main configuration or, if they are matched, at least, it is better to discharge through separate, parallel, paths?
    Last edited by Hellenic Vanagon; 07-06-2018 at 01:55 AM.

  9. #869
    Senior Member Faraday88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellenic Vanagon View Post
    Now I know: 6A-7A current are, in fact, used by the primary, (although, at the secondary, the amperage is at mA):

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pbV...ew?usp=sharing

    LINK: http://dtec.net.au/Ignition%20Coil%2...alibration.htm

    Now does any one know what can happen, (to the ECU), connecting two ignition coils in, (primary & secondary), parallel, feeding them by the same triggering module, which is designed just for one coil?

    In the above, excellent, linked, article it is mentioned: " Primary voltage usually lies in the 300- 400V range and is electronically ‘clamped’ in most systems to prevent the switching device being damaged".

    So it seems that, usually, there is an overloading protection.

    But there are so many other aspects, f.ex.,

    #1 using two coils, are they operating cooler, important factor to their sensitive resistance vs temperature?

    #2 is their rising coefficient improved by halving(?) their operational stress?

    At least, this is claimed by the next article excerpt about the Jag's system:

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Cw0...ew?usp=sharing


    #3 is it better the auxiliary/main configuration or, if they are matched, at least, it is better to discharge through separate, parallel, paths?
    Yes!! The Primary discharge capacitor is charged to 300-400V form a pre-step up high-frequency coil. as i said in the previous post, parallel primaries is the way to go if you are looking at boosting the power level in the out put(i mean power) wonder why the coil manufacturers do not have this provision(or do they??) since even with CDI its the Capacitor discharge Ignition (Series-Resonant) and this has been the standard for ateast over a decade and half i must say! the same is not true in the kittering coil mode(Fly-back)..current limitation due to the core saturation is a problem in this case, in the later case even if the core is saturated the out put does not get affected due to the nature of series resonant action.
    Just a thought why not make custom coils our own??? well if you do you shall learn hell lot of hidden stuffs!!( lots of insulation and dielectric breakovers!!! though)
    enjoy smelling Ozone a littel of this gas is mood rejuvenating i must say
    Rgds,
    Faraday88.
    Last edited by Faraday88; 07-06-2018 at 04:34 AM.
    'The Magnetic Field is the gatekeeper of the Wheather on the Earth'' - John Bedini.

  10. #870
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellenic Vanagon View Post
    Now I know: 6A-7A current are, in fact, used by the primary, (although, at the secondary, the amperage is at mA):

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pbV...ew?usp=sharing

    LINK: http://dtec.net.au/Ignition%20Coil%2...alibration.htm

    Now does any one know what can happen, (to the ECU), connecting two ignition coils in, (primary & secondary), parallel, feeding them by the same triggering module, which is designed just for one coil?

    In the above, excellent, linked, article it is mentioned: " Primary voltage usually lies in the 300- 400V range and is electronically ‘clamped’ in most systems to prevent the switching device being damaged".

    So it seems that, usually, there is an overloading protection.

    But there are so many other aspects, f.ex.,

    #1 using two coils, are they operating cooler, important factor to their sensitive resistance vs temperature?

    #2 is their rising coefficient improved by halving(?) their operational stress?

    At least, this is claimed by the next article excerpt about the Jag's system:

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Cw0...ew?usp=sharing


    #3 is it better the auxiliary/main configuration or, if they are matched, at least, it is better to discharge through separate, parallel, paths?
    Indeed, Voltage and current are inversely proportional.
    That second link, explaining dwell, is wonderful. Thank you!
    It seems that a capacitor in parallel to (across) the ignition primary is an excellent idea in any application; sizing it correctly is the issue.

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