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Thread: Plasma Ignition | Plasma Jet Ignition

  1. #811
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron Murakami View Post
    Are you discharging plasma through a distributor? You can bypass it and go straight to the top of the plugs.

    Are you a machinist? Perhaps you can try to make some Robert Krupa Firestorm plugs to test with the plasma.

    Can you post a video or pic of the spark/arc?
    TIG welding uses a tungsten electrode which can be purchased for $30 for 10 pieces (makes 20 sparkplugs?) of 1/8" diameter by 7" long.
    Have you heard of anyone trying this material for the center electrode in the sparkplug?

  2. #812
    Networking Architect Aaron Murakami's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellenic Vanagon View Post
    #1 The distributor is bypassed for the plasma, which is driven directly on the spark plugs, with tv cables.
    #2 No, I haven't the equipment necessary to make them.
    #3 I will try to catch the double discharges and I will post them.

    Theoretically speaking, is it possible to have those two discharges in parallel, having between them a tiny distance, or they must coincide absolutely, as at 95% of the events happens ?
    I'll have to look at my old pics to see if I see them at the same time. Of course it is only possible for the cap to discharge after the HV normal spark jumps, but could be so fast the high current impulse from the cap jumps the gap before the spark is extinguished. That supports my belief in the accelerated discharge.
    Aaron Murakami





    You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete. ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

  3. #813
    Networking Architect Aaron Murakami's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    TIG welding uses a tungsten electrode which can be purchased for $30 for 10 pieces (makes 20 sparkplugs?) of 1/8" diameter by 7" long.
    Have you heard of anyone trying this material for the center electrode in the sparkplug?
    Please look over this doc carefully: http://www.hho4free.com/spark%20plug...lasmaplugs.pdf
    Aaron Murakami





    You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete. ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

  4. #814
    Senior Member Faraday88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron Murakami View Post
    Please look over this doc carefully: http://www.hho4free.com/spark%20plug...lasmaplugs.pdf
    Superb Aaron!!
    Robert krupa's plug and your patent came much later....how did Robert excite his Plasma??
    I know yours is true Plasma ignition is terms of modest power input.
    the plug and the Power to excite it are two different things..
    your comments please..
    Best Regards,
    Faraday88.
    'Teaching can endure a quest for knowledge..but Learning solves an anomaly'

  5. #815
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron Murakami View Post
    Please look over this doc carefully: http://www.hho4free.com/spark%20plug...lasmaplugs.pdf
    Thanks Aaron.
    Yes, I reviewed that article recently and the comment "Thermocouple Alloy made from Tungsten - Rhenium Alloy which can withstand temperatures of over 2500 deg C and can be
    used here but it's pretty difficult to find in retail." is what inspired me to make my comment about the easy to purchase TIG electrodes. Also, thermocouple wire is usually very thin.
    I'm guessing that you have done some TIG welding yourself. I can't think of anywhere that gets more severe arcing than that tungsten tip.
    For the (2% thorium) tungsten rod there hasn't been much change in the welding industry for about 50 years to my knowledge.
    I would think tungsten rods would be first choice for a plasma spark plug conversion. Isn't it also the material that incandescent light bulb filaments are made of?
    That guy went to a LOT of work to make his sparkplugs in the article.

    Richard Gieser

  6. #816
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Thanks Aaron.
    Yes, I reviewed that article recently and the comment "Thermocouple Alloy made from Tungsten - Rhenium Alloy which can withstand temperatures of over 2500 deg C and can be
    used here but it's pretty difficult to find in retail." is what inspired me to make my comment about the easy to purchase TIG electrodes. Also, thermocouple wire is usually very thin.
    I'm guessing that you have done some TIG welding yourself. I can't think of anywhere that gets more severe arcing than that tungsten tip.
    For the (2% thorium) tungsten rod there hasn't been much change in the welding industry for about 50 years to my knowledge.
    I would think tungsten rods would be first choice for a plasma spark plug conversion. Isn't it also the material that incandescent light bulb filaments are made of?
    That guy went to a LOT of work to make his sparkplugs in the article.

    Richard Gieser
    Hi Richard,
    Tungsten used in TIG welding is for preferential melting of the base mental surface. However as you rightly pointed out it is used in the incandescent bulb for reason that it has high resistivity otherwise you cannot have I2R loss and thereby produce White hot light.
    However, in Pulsed Plasma spark application you would need highly conductive electrodes that have good shock resistance.... i cannot think of anything other than solid-copper...
    Rgds,
    Faraday88.
    'Teaching can endure a quest for knowledge..but Learning solves an anomaly'

  7. #817
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faraday88 View Post
    Hi Richard,
    Tungsten used in TIG welding is for preferential melting of the base mental surface. However as you rightly pointed out it is used in the incandescent bulb for reason that it has high resistivity otherwise you cannot have I2R loss and thereby produce White hot light.
    However, in Pulsed Plasma spark application you would need highly conductive electrodes that have good shock resistance.... i cannot think of anything other than solid-copper...
    Rgds,
    Faraday88.
    My TIG welder is rated 360 amps and that is through a 1/8" tungsten electrode, far beyond the amperage/conductivity requirements of an ignition system.
    For Plasma Arc systems satisfactory conductivity isn't nearly so difficult to achieve (especially when you are talking about 2" of conductor length) as is acceptable life expectancy at which copper and it's alloys lags tungsten by a considerable margin.
    The outstanding feature of tungsten, for Plasma applications, is it's high temperature durability during arcing.
    As implied by my original question, has a TIG tungsten electrode been tried for comparison purposes for both spark performance and durability?

    Richard Gieser

  8. #818
    Senior Member Faraday88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    My TIG welder is rated 360 amps and that is through a 1/8" tungsten electrode, far beyond the amperage/conductivity requirements of an ignition system.
    For Plasma Arc systems satisfactory conductivity isn't nearly so difficult to achieve (especially when you are talking about 2" of conductor length) as is acceptable life expectancy at which copper and it's alloys lags tungsten by a considerable margin.
    The outstanding feature of tungsten, for Plasma applications, is it's high-temperature durability during arcing.
    As implied by my original question, has a TIG tungsten electrode been tried for comparison purposes for both spark performance and durability?

    Richard Gieser
    what you are referring to is a continuous rating (360Amps) and is characteristic to Arc- discharge Plasma and not Spark-discharge plasma the difference is but obvious. The peak current in the Pulsed plasma, of course, can go to several hundred Amps. Aaron's Plasma does the benefit of an Arc-Plasma in a Spark-discharge for a given power input. btw Ignition Energy is non-thermal at inception like a spark-plasma.
    rgds,
    Faraday88.
    Last edited by Faraday88; 06-02-2018 at 11:32 AM.
    'Teaching can endure a quest for knowledge..but Learning solves an anomaly'

  9. #819
    This is the new MKII NGK BUE, (experimental):





    You can see the two parallel discharges, (f. ex. at 0:36), and the new stronger arc.

    My phone camera is interfered by the radiation and records image intermittently when the sound is recorded normally.
    Last edited by Hellenic Vanagon; 06-03-2018 at 06:47 AM.

  10. #820
    In such unprecedented applications, usually, the good results may be affected by enthusiasm and happiness so it is better to remain calm for the next day's real results.

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