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Thread: Plasma Ignition | Plasma Jet Ignition

  1. #801
    A lot of work was necessary in order to support the Plasma engagement.

    Here are my first impressions:

    Trying to lean the fuel mixture, it is possible to intervene to the time the injectors are functioning.

    "Using a stock file from a 1992 G60 Passat syncro, and ECU temperature of 87 deg C, an IAT of 32 deg C and a battery voltage of 14, I get the following results adjusting the CO pot value:

    800 RPM at 37.5 mbar:

    CO pot setting vs Inj PW

    0 ; 3.102 ms
    200 ; 2.620 ms
    400 ; 2.540 ms
    495 ; 2.480 ms <-- value where fuel is neither added nor subtracted
    600 ; 2.416 ms
    800 ; 2.328 ms
    1000; 2.254 ms
    1200; 2.202 ms
    1400; 2.156 ms
    1600; 2.120 ms
    1800; 2.088 ms
    2000; 2.062 ms

    6300 RPM at 175 mbar:

    CO pot setting vs Inj PW
    0 ; 9.146 ms
    200 ; 9.088 ms
    400 ; 9.042 ms
    495 ; 9.030 ms <-- value where fuel is neither added nor subtracted
    600 ; 9.006 ms
    800 ; 8.984 ms
    1000; 8.960 ms
    1200; 8.950 ms
    1400; 8.938 ms
    1600; 8.926 ms
    1800; 8.914 ms
    2000; 8.904 ms

    These values would only come into play when the ECU is in open loop, otherwise the O2 sensor takes over.



    http://forums.fourtitude.com/showthr...ng-copot/page2 "


    In my system the limit is the setting at 1900 Ω.

    By doing this adjustment, (at 1900 Ω), I am observing the following phenomena:

    1) Plasma on/off and the needle of the tachometer jumps, just a little bit, so the system affects the operation. (This is at any fuel adjustment).

    2) The engine's temperature remains on the same level as in the normal fueling. (The normal value is at about 490-500 Ω).
    (This is checked only under very light duty, since I haven't the time to check it under normal or heavy operation).

    3) There is a substantial drop in the performance of the engine, especially at the high revs.

    4) The first measurements with the on board trip computer saw an, almost, vertical slope in the reduction of the consumption.

    Saying these, the only point for anxiety is the drop in the performance.


    Any thoughts?
    Last edited by Hellenic Vanagon; 05-18-2018 at 08:42 AM.

  2. #802
    Just in the case you know that nothing better can be done, please don't worry. The Plasma, in my case, supports the ignition functioning with the surface discharge spark plugs, which:

    1)Allow the use of the regular petrol 95 Ron instead of the super 98 Ron, without any compromise in the performance, (on the contrary, being immune to detonation and promoting a better combustion), the difference in Greece being ~ 20%.

    2)Reduce the consumption, at least, (I give the official estimation), 6%.

    3)Are susceptible to fouling if not supported by a proper, high energy, ignition, (here comes the Plasma).


    Thank you for your time, (and knowledge).

    Very happy with my Plasma.
    Last edited by Hellenic Vanagon; 05-18-2018 at 09:36 AM.

  3. #803
    (O.k., thinking about a water bubbler or a petrol fumes jar. Yes of course it works).




  4. #804
    just a quick post for a source for HV caps and diodes I've found:
    hvstuff.com
    they even have the HV wire discussed earlier in the thread

  5. #805
    Trying to do some updates to my system, tried modified spark plugs with the ground electrode removed, having that way a similar to the NGK BUE surface discharge spark plug operation with some differences:

    #1 the central electrode now is 3 mm instead of 2 mm
    #2 they look rather as semi-surface discharge, since the spark/arc is partially 180 on the ceramic insulator, (a tiny part), and the rest a free 360 spark/arc.
    #3 the gap is now a huge 2 mm gap instead of the previous 1.3 mm, (recommended for the normal spark plugs is 0.7-0.8 mm), the 1.3 surface discharge gap being an easy for the sparc/arc to overcome because of that different geometry. (The distributor burns the contacts from the high energy demands, though, so it seems that the cavitated and filled with contactive grease contacts is a solution).

    Now here is a question: with these modified spark plugs, sporadically, there is a strange phenomenon, (and this is why I am talking about spark and arc).

    There are, simultaneously two discharges: one in a yellow-orange color, and 0.5 mm away, a second one with the bright white color. I thought that these two coincide always. Is this strange or it is expected?
    Last edited by Hellenic Vanagon; 05-30-2018 at 02:28 AM.

  6. #806
    Networking Architect Aaron Murakami's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellenic Vanagon View Post
    Trying to do some updates to my system, tried modified spark plugs with the ground electrode removed, having that way a similar to the NGK BUE surface discharge spark plug operation with some differences:

    #1 the central electrode now is 3 mm instead of 2 mm
    #2 they look rather as semi-surface discharge, since the spark/arc is partially 180 on the ceramic insulator, (a tiny part), and the rest a free 360 spark/arc.
    #3 the gap is now a huge 2 mm gap instead of the previous 1.3 mm, (recommended for the normal spark plugs is 0.7-0.8 mm), the 1.3 surface discharge gap being an easy for the sparc/arc to overcome because of that different geometry. (The distributor burns the contacts from the high energy demands, though, so it seems that the cavitated and filled with contactive grease contacts is a solution).

    Now here is a question: with these modified spark plugs, sporadically, there is a strange phenomenon, (and this is why I am talking about spark and arc).

    There are, simultaneously two discharges: one in a yellow-orange color, and 0.5 mm away, a second one with the bright white color. I thought that these two coincide always. Is this strange or it is expected?
    Are you discharging plasma through a distributor? You can bypass it and go straight to the top of the plugs.

    Are you a machinist? Perhaps you can try to make some Robert Krupa Firestorm plugs to test with the plasma.

    Can you post a video or pic of the spark/arc?
    Aaron Murakami





    You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete. ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

  7. #807
    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron Murakami View Post
    Are you discharging plasma through a distributor? You can bypass it and go straight to the top of the plugs.

    Are you a machinist? Perhaps you can try to make some Robert Krupa Firestorm plugs to test with the plasma.

    Can you post a video or pic of the spark/arc?
    #1 The distributor is bypassed for the plasma, which is driven directly on the spark plugs, with tv cables.
    #2 No, I haven't the equipment necessary to make them.
    #3 I will try to catch the double discharges and I will post them.

    Theoretically speaking, is it possible to have those two discharges in parallel, having between them a tiny distance, or they must coincide absolutely, as at 95% of the events happens ?

  8. #808
    Networking Architect Aaron Murakami's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellenic Vanagon View Post
    #1 The distributor is bypassed for the plasma, which is driven directly on the spark plugs, with tv cables.
    #2 No, I haven't the equipment necessary to make them.
    #3 I will try to catch the double discharges and I will post them.

    Theoretically speaking, is it possible to have those two discharges in parallel, having between them a tiny distance, or they must coincide absolutely, as at 95% of the events happens ?
    I'll have to look at my old pics to see if I see them at the same time. Of course it is only possible for the cap to discharge after the HV normal spark jumps, but could be so fast the high current impulse from the cap jumps the gap before the spark is extinguished. That supports my belief in the accelerated discharge.
    Aaron Murakami





    You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete. ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

  9. #809
    Networking Architect Aaron Murakami's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    TIG welding uses a tungsten electrode which can be purchased for $30 for 10 pieces (makes 20 sparkplugs?) of 1/8" diameter by 7" long.
    Have you heard of anyone trying this material for the center electrode in the sparkplug?
    Please look over this doc carefully: http://www.hho4free.com/spark%20plug...lasmaplugs.pdf
    Aaron Murakami





    You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete. ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

  10. #810
    Senior Member Faraday88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron Murakami View Post
    Please look over this doc carefully: http://www.hho4free.com/spark%20plug...lasmaplugs.pdf
    Superb Aaron!!
    Robert krupa's plug and your patent came much later....how did Robert excite his Plasma??
    I know yours is true Plasma ignition is terms of modest power input.
    the plug and the Power to excite it are two different things..
    your comments please..
    Best Regards,
    Faraday88.
    'The Magnetic Field is the gatekeeper of the Wheather on the Earth'' - John Bedini.

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