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Thread: Plasma Ignition | Plasma Jet Ignition

  1. #701
    Hi RB176,

    Which engine do you have and does it have a magneto or battery ignition system?

    There are low cost solid state (hall effect) modules available for each type system. Couple this with a peaking cap and it will give a pretty hot spark (but not plasma). To get the plasma effect you have to use a cap discharge system.

    Let me know what you have, and I can help you out with it. I used to sell and service several different brands of outdoor power equipment, and have replaced lots of points ignition systems with solid state ones. I've converted Briggs, Kohler, Tecumseh, and several two strokes as well.
    Gary Hammond,

  2. #702

  3. #703
    Hi Jeremiah,

    I may have spoken too soon.

    The 14 Kohler has breaker points operated by a push rod from the camshaft with built in spark retard and/or compression relief for starting. Since this is a battery type ignition there is no rotating magnet to trigger a hall effect module unless you add one somewhere on the crankshaft or flywheel. With a magneto ignition the magnet is already there in the flywheel.

    Pertronix and Compufire both make modules that are custom made to fit various distributors. If you could find a used distributor and drive it at 1to1 or 1to2 from the crankshaft one of these modules would work to trigger your coil.

    If you go to that much effort and expense, however, it might be better to just get the entry level MSD box, trigger it with the original points (minus condenser), add the high voltage diode and you'll have PLASMA! Since the points would only be switching the trigger current, they would last a long time and work very reliably.
    Gary Hammond,

  4. #704
    Hi Jeremiah,

    The MSD street fire is only $161.95 from Summit Racing. Here's the link. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/msd-5520/overview/
    Gary Hammond,

  5. #705
    Yes Gary the system you spoke of is exactly what it l have. I thought maybe I could use ceramic capacitors inline with the spark plug which showed a big improvement in spark outside the engine, but that didn’t work when in use. The engine at first didn’t want to start but eventually did but at full rpms it started cutting out and would not run steady. I would really like to figure something out with out the use of a Msd.

  6. #706
    Hi Jeremiah,

    Quote Originally Posted by RB176 View Post
    ....... I thought maybe I could use ceramic capacitors inline with the spark plug which showed a big improvement in spark outside the engine, but that didn’t work when in use. The engine at first didn’t want to start but eventually did but at full rpms it started cutting out and would not run steady. I would really like to figure something out with out the use of a Msd.
    The capacitor has to go in parallel with the plug, not in series.
    Gary Hammond,

  7. #707
    Gary

    First thanks for the help. Could you please explain what you mean by “In parallel.” Let me explain myself as well. What I did was put one of the ceramic capacitor wire ends, soldered to a washer under the spark plug and the other to positive end under the plug boot. This method was one I had seen on YouTube. Would a diode work, perhaps in a 10kv instead of a 20kv?

  8. #708
    Hi Jeremiah,

    I took your statement
    inline with the spark plug
    to mean in series between the coil and plug so that all the current had to pass through the capacitor on the way to the plug. This would greatly limit the spark output.



    What I did was put one of the ceramic capacitor wire ends, soldered to a washer under the spark plug and the other to positive end under the plug boot. This method was one I had seen on YouTube.
    This is putting the capacitor "in parallel" with the plug and is the correct way to do it.

    You may have used a capacitor with too low of a voltage rating which allows it to break down internally. Or it may even be shorting out externally if the wire end attached to the plug boot is too close to the plug base. Or the capacitance may be either too much or too little for the desired effect with the particular coil you are using. And adding an extra washer under the spark plug gasket will raise the plug in the combustion chamber causing a shrouding effect which is detrimental to the combustion process. Without being there, it's had for me to troubleshoot exactly what's happening.

    Have you considered just using a high performance coil instead of the stock Kohler coil?



    Would a diode work, perhaps in a 10kv instead of a 20kv?
    It's my understanding that a diode works only in conjunction with a capacitor discharge box supplying power to the primary. Aaron ??
    Gary Hammond,

  9. #709
    Networking Architect Aaron Murakami's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RB176 View Post
    I was wondering if someone could help me out with creating better spark with a Typical battery points and condenser/capacitor ignition system on a old Wheel Horse lawn tractor http://gardentractorpullingtips.com/animate/ign1ani.gif
    I do not want to put a msd box on it because that system would probably cost me more than the tractor lol. Could I use a 20kv diode like Peter did in the video on page 1 of this thread. Thank you Jeremiah
    Gary is correct, you need a capacitive discharge system.

    $115 USD https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Proco...Box,19685.html I've never tested that but it is a low cost option.

    I have had 100% success with this unit, $152 USD https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...SIN=B001O28622
    Aaron Murakami





    You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.” ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

  10. #710
    Networking Architect Aaron Murakami's Avatar
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    The diode goes from the + of the ignition coil where the CDI is connected - that connection from a CDI or MSD to the + of ignition coil is connected to the + of the capacitor in those units. Diode goes from there to the top of each spark plug - I'd use 1 diode per cylinder. When the spark is made, the capacitor will then discharge directly over the spark plug gap.
    Aaron Murakami





    You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.” ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

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