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Thread: Plasma Ignition | Plasma Jet Ignition

  1. #641
    Senior Member Tom C's Avatar
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    I did a groove on my 1992 EFI accord, done by the gadgetman himself at a conference. I had a perfect test bed, I knew exactly my mileage from Portland to hayden. all highway miles. drove the exact same route both ways. had no tailwind coming to hayden and a 30 MPh headwind going back.

    mileage was exactly the same both ways. that tells me it was doing something. however in city driving with the same car I noticed no improvement in mileage AT all, from before the trip to after. this is city driving not highway. I purchased a stock throttle body from the Junk yard, rebuilt it and put all new sensors on it to see if things would go up or down, no difference between a new one and the gadgetman groove for city driving. If I was doing a lot of highway I would have put the grooved throttle body back on.



    Tom C


    experimental Kits, chargers and solar trackers

  2. #642
    Networking Architect Aaron Murakami's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heysoundude View Post
    If you didn't see at least a 30% improvement in mileage/fuel consumption after applying the Gadgetman Groove, something is not right. Check in at that forum's website for some troubleshooting assistance.
    Yes, I have that Wiseman download as well...As I recall, it was pretty focused on Carbureted engines; unfortunately, there are 3 fuel injected cars in my driveway/garage that can't benefit...like the a large and increasing portion of the running fleet on the planet.
    One of Ron's main guys came to my place in Spokane to help me get results with the groove on my subaru. He put a restrictor in my idle air intake tube. Pain in the butt because when it was cold, I had to keep reving it up so it wouldn't die.

    I can tell a quicker throttle response though and I seemed to be getting some gains then over time, that all went away when the computer brought everything back to normal.

    For my gas generator, the groove and everything else will not do anything as long as it has a fixed jet - because as long as the same air is moving over that venturi, the same fuel will get pulled into the air flow defeating the entire purpose.

    Until I have some kind of fully adjustable carb on my generator so I can do 50% load tests with metered amounts of gas, the jury is still out as to whether it will do anything. 30%? I know the claims, but have not witnessed anything close to that.
    Aaron Murakami





    You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.” ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

  3. #643
    I bet it would work quite well on that Datsun Truck.
    That guy Ron sent didn't do a proper job if you're having cold start/idle issues. Idle may be set too low, or there's too much restriction to the IAC. (this was before or after Plasma Ignition?)
    You need to re-school the computer on yours, after you sort out why it has defaulted to factory baseline. Same thing happens on mine; I suspect a funky voltage regulator, but it may be the belt tensioner. I've also suspected the computer gets freaked out by how close to adjustment limits it gets (or surpasses them), which would indicate a need to replace the factory computer; that's something for those truly committed to efficiency/conservation.
    I've gotten better than 50% gains on mine.

    An adjustable carb with a mixture control, like on aircraft? http://www.experimentalaircraft.info...carburetor.php Why not? The Subie's boxer engine shares a lot of similarities with the Lycoming and Continental horizontally opposed engines...

  4. #644
    Hello Aaron,

    How is your project going? Mine is on hold for now, its to cool here in Holland, since i do my project outside.

    I was looking at this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3x_kYq3mHM Supercaps as car starter. I have a question:

    I have bought 6x 2,7V 500F caps from banggoods. Do you think if i put the caps in parellel with my car battery, there is an improvement for the MSD 5520 CDI?
    I have read somewhere that the internal resistance of a car battery is around 5 ohms. If i put the caps on it, the CDI has fast power at will

    Cheers!
    Nosce te Ipsum

    My Setup:
    Jeep Wagoneer V8 5.9L (360) 1979
    Standard Motorcraft 2150 2bbl carb
    Main jets size #55 stock
    Eagle Research Carb Enhancer
    Water and HHO injection with Aquatune HB plus
    MSD CDI 5520 street fire
    NGK spark plugs BP7ES(non-resistor) with sidegapping and 1.5mm gap
    Flametrower III canister ignition coil
    8x 20KV 2A PRHVP2A-20 High Voltage Rectifier Diode
    Granatelli Zero resistor spark plug wires

  5. #645
    Networking Architect Aaron Murakami's Avatar
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    caps on batt

    Quote Originally Posted by Co-Creator View Post
    Hello Aaron,

    How is your project going? Mine is on hold for now, its to cool here in Holland, since i do my project outside.

    I was looking at this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3x_kYq3mHM Supercaps as car starter. I have a question:

    I have bought 6x 2,7V 500F caps from banggoods. Do you think if i put the caps in parellel with my car battery, there is an improvement for the MSD 5520 CDI?
    I have read somewhere that the internal resistance of a car battery is around 5 ohms. If i put the caps on it, the CDI has fast power at will

    Cheers!
    We've been getting into the single negative F here so it is on pause. I have received my final brake parts and my drive shaft bushing finally so will be able to finish the priority repairs. As soon as the road is dry again, I can drive it into my garage and get some work done.

    5 ohms sounds like a lot. Flooded cells are really low - not as low as lithium but still low. Not sure about the caps in parallel with your battery. In concept is seems like it should work but can't say.
    Aaron Murakami





    You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.” ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

  6. #646

    Post

    Quote Originally Posted by Co-Creator View Post
    Hello Aaron,

    How is your project going? Mine is on hold for now, its to cool here in Holland, since i do my project outside.

    I was looking at this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3x_kYq3mHM Supercaps as car starter. I have a question:

    I have bought 6x 2,7V 500F caps from banggoods. Do you think if i put the caps in parellel with my car battery, there is an improvement for the MSD 5520 CDI?
    I have read somewhere that the internal resistance of a car battery is around 5 ohms. If i put the caps on it, the CDI has fast power at will

    Cheers!
    Hi Co creator,

    Why do you think the MSD would benefit from these extra caps? A healthy flooded battery will have an internal resistance of under 5 mOhm (mili). The internal resistance of your battery is low enough to supply all the current it needs. Then, the MSD uses a designated circuit to charge the capacitor inside the unit and MSD units draw around two-five amps when operating. Just my 2c.

    It is nice though to have that cap bank ready, its a real nice lightweight starthelp in winter.

    greeting from Holland

  7. #647
    Senior Member Faraday88's Avatar
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    Pulser Plasma Engine

    Hi Aaron and others,

    I suggest the group here to view this very interseting video on the You-tube (search for Pulser Plasma engine), this is supposedly a ''refinement'' of the Papp
    Engine, Heinz Kolstermann and team claim to have acheived the similar Kinetic Energy out of A Plasma Triggerd expolsion system that uses nothing but Atmoistpheric Air as the only 'reactant in the Plasma thruster.
    The system involves similar triggering mechanism of enhanced spark by Pulsed Capacitor Discharge like the Aaron's Plasma Ignition (3 point gap)
    attached here is a document for the same.
    Lightning-harnessed-Infinite-Magazine-2003-copy.pdf
    Rgds,
    Faraday88.
    ‘Mass is the Spatial density of Matter (Particle) and the Temporal Intensity of Space (Field)’.

  8. #648
    Senior Member Faraday88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Handy andy View Post
    Hi Faraday is this the post you wanted me to read on this thread I am sorry I missed it, at my first glance, and thought you wanted my advice on electronics or something like that.

    Have you contacted the rohnerengineering about this engine.

    rohnereng@aol.com

    What inert gas do you think he might have used, it seems in the description he is using air, compressing and igniting it etc. It would need an endothermic and exothermic type reaction, dont you think.

    I can advise on circuit layout improvements if that is what you were referrring to. I was an expert in power systems in one of my earlier jobs, so know a trick or two, that dont get taught in schools or most engineering courses
    Hi Andy,
    Thank for your attention! Yes this group is very convencing as far as i'm concerned on many aspect of the Effect of deriving Kinetic Energy from Pulsed Plasma Ignition systems..First of all the fact that it is not an effect due to exoctic Gases although i still reserve that a certain proportion of Rare gases (Noble)mixture does some addtional enhancment from the elemenatry front. But Majorly the effect is possiable with any Gas... Secondly, the need of RF energy to cause Plasma initiation (Indcutivily coupled Plasma Discharges ICP) is again a red herring right from the Papp Patent..thirdly and most essesntialy this effect is no different from the E.V Gray Motor..the only thing that is foucused is the effect caused by the 'Load'Inductance which is the Plasma Pulse that is again Maganetically (z-pinch) squeezed in the Pulse compression phase. yes E.v Gray used that the Load Inducatcne's Magnetic Repulsion to get the Torque /Thrust, while Papp is using this Inductance-system to produce the associated Plasma (Back e.mf Energy if i may term it that way) to do the same...
    i'm keen to know what trick that is unconventional in the school teachings that you would like to show us here...please go ahead and present it for us..
    Rgds,
    Faraday88
    ‘Mass is the Spatial density of Matter (Particle) and the Temporal Intensity of Space (Field)’.

  9. #649
    Senior Member Faraday88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Handy andy View Post
    Some little tricks. All wires have typically 10nH/m inductance; when switching fast currents di/dt this matters, cable runs matter. The normal practice is to keep cable runs short, and use parallel bus bars, with low inductance capacitors, in the DC Bus connection in combination with Electrolytics or maybe super capacitors today. The parallel busbars should connect directly to the capacitor terminals, then as close as possible to the power transistors. Any power tracks on double sided circuit boards should have the 0V on one side aligned with the switched output on the other. Any gate or base drive circuits should be connected directly to the gate and have a separate track for the 0V as close to the transistor as possible, The power connections should be separate, even if they join at the semiconductor. Diodes have different switching characteristics depending on both the level of voltage and current being switched, if you use a 100Amp diode and switch it at 50Amps, it can oscillate at around 10MHz whereas when switched at 100Amps, it has almost a critical damping response. If you just pick a random diode it wont work as good as one specifically chosen to match the circuit. The benefit of using the parallel busbars is that they cancel out most of the inductive kick. Different transistor technologies all so help with this, an IGBT and transistor have a tale current, when switched off. This suppresses the inductive spike. A Mosfet does not have a tale current and often need a little bit of suppression, to prevent them killing themselves. The Level of drive voltage or base current significantly affects the conduction losses on and switching speed of power switching devices, and the short circuit capability. If you supply 20V on a IGBT gate the resistance of the device drops, and the short circuit capability goes with it, rather than 10us, you are down to 5us or less depending on manufacturer. The upside being you can switch faster and have lower conduction losses. If parallel busbars cant be used, twisted pairs are a fall back on thinner cable etc.

    An alternative for the car ignition system using super capacitors might be to use a small solar panel on the car dashboard rather than a small battery to maintain the charge, of the capacitors. You could still run the radio.

    Ref the Papp engine, with your plasma squeeze, to put it into terms of lightning. You are taking a lightning ball and squashing it, like what happened at tunguska, on a smaller scale. The Plasma spark produces positrons and electrons which manage to stay separate as the piston goes down creating an increased vacuum, then when you squeeze the electrons and positrons together as the piston goes up. It goes bang you have a mini tunguska in a tube.

    The gas inside the Papp engine is not given on the data sheet. It must be able to be compressed down and expanded, there is no exhaust, or inlet. The pistons may be working in a vacuum, not with any particular kind of gas. It is not stated on the pdf you attached. There is an email address, did you try contacting them, do you have anymore information you have not shared here.

    Rgds

    Andy
    Hi Andy,
    Thanks for that little class on your hands on experiance in design criteria..
    About the Pappa Engine stuff and the pdf I attached, actually i stumbled accross this group when i was studying Papp Videos on the you tube.. but what is very interesteing is that they are promoting their undertstanding on a Air-based Plasma explaosion engine whih could be much the same as what Papp originally did..only with a red herring of the Nobel gas mixture..im currently having some ideas on what these guys might be doing i this system..will share with the group here once im convinced.
    Aaron has one way of triggering the expolsion while these guys have another iteration (or even Papp had the same) as you suggest i need to contact these guys to learn more if they are willing to share..
    Rgds,
    Faraday88.
    ‘Mass is the Spatial density of Matter (Particle) and the Temporal Intensity of Space (Field)’.

  10. #650
    Senior Member Faraday88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Handy andy View Post
    They provided an email contact address etc, they must want to communicate. I look forward to reading how they respond.
    Hey Andy,
    Go Ahead let us know what you get hear from them...
    Rgds,
    Faraday88.
    ‘Mass is the Spatial density of Matter (Particle) and the Temporal Intensity of Space (Field)’.

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