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Thread: Plasma Ignition | Plasma Jet Ignition

  1. #521
    Networking Architect Aaron Murakami's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UseNoFuel View Post
    Thanks, Aaron. I understand more about how this works.
    About the polarity of the spark from the coil, I do not know. I would assume it is POSITIVE, simply because the GROUND on this car is NEGATIVE and the spark seeks the ground.
    I tried to use the information that you sent last post about the DIODES. However I could find no results on Amazon. If you could please tell me the values of the diodes you use, I could possibly find a match. I found a few with a 20K or 30K voltage rating but they have an amp rating of only a few mA. I am not sure what the power rating must be.Thanks again! UseNoFuel
    Many coils are negative HV that jumps to a negative ground. Polarity doesn't really mean much with electricity, it is more about potential difference. If there is a common connection between ground and an ignition coil with a negative hv output, it is only seeking to jump back to itself through a lower potential difference and the ground meets this need.

    I gave a link - if you click it, it goes right to that diode in Amazon - did it not?
    Aaron Murakami





    “You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.” ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

  2. #522

    Final Water Vapor Test

    Hello all. How are you?
    I am fine and trust you are fine as well.

    I finally got around to performing an actual, real world test of the plasma ignition system on this generator and did produce a video of this yesterday.
    There is currently a blizzard moving through Colorado here on the plains and both major east/west routes are closed so not much work to do yesterday or today...

    The plasma ignition system itself is working well and I did run the engine for a short period of time just on a starting fluid primer.
    Then I set igintion timing to top dead center for optimum compression and tried doing some testing with both a mister spray bottle as well as an ultrasonic humidifier.



    Neither test has revealed any desirable effect such as a single "fire" of the engine or even an audible 'pop' from the exhaust port.

    And at this point; I am out of ideas of what else to try other than configuring for additional capacitive discharge to add high current to high voltage which is another project all in itself and will likely just burn up spark plugs and possibly cause other engine damage so I prefer to try some HHO experiments first.

    But I am certainly open to suggestions as to how it may be possible to run on straight water in this type of setup.

    I am still very intrigued by the possibility of using a fairly large HHO cell on a pretty small engine simply driving a generator which may be enough to power the cell just as depicted in that video showing a Anton cell running a generator in an elevator.

    See:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMlciNOyo_U

    There a few things about this video that many of you may not be aware of:

    1. The HHO system is sitting on a cart that is being strongly vibrated by the engine which helps to increase gas bubbles rising off the reactor plates.

    2. Engine does have a small air intake port supplementing the HHO supply.

    3. It appears his HHO is being powered by a simple variable transformer and rectifier which means that if he increases the voltage beyond a certain limit; the HHO cell will also start producing additional water vapor-steam that may also supplement the HHO supply.

    4. His generator and transformer are 240 volt models which may be a little more efficient than my 120 volt versions.

    5. His HHO cell may have been modified by sand blasting the plates at a 45 degree angle to also increase gas output per the suggestions of Morray King in his presentation at the 2012 GBEM conference.

    See:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pa2sjMN8sMc

    That is all for now, enjoy your experiments and have a great day!

    Kindest regards;

    Scorch.

  3. #523
    Networking Architect Aaron Murakami's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scorch View Post
    Hello all. How are you?
    I am fine and trust you are fine as well.

    I finally got around to performing an actual, real world test of the plasma ignition system on this generator and did produce a video of this yesterday.
    There is currently a blizzard moving through Colorado here on the plains and both major east/west routes are closed so not much work to do yesterday or today...

    The plasma ignition system itself is working well and I did run the engine for a short period of time just on a starting fluid primer.
    Then I set igintion timing to top dead center for optimum compression and tried doing some testing with both a mister spray bottle as well as an ultrasonic humidifier.



    Neither test has revealed any desirable effect such as a single "fire" of the engine or even an audible 'pop' from the exhaust port.

    And at this point; I am out of ideas of what else to try other than configuring for additional capacitive discharge to add high current to high voltage which is another project all in itself and will likely just burn up spark plugs and possibly cause other engine damage so I prefer to try some HHO experiments first.

    But I am certainly open to suggestions as to how it may be possible to run on straight water in this type of setup.

    I am still very intrigued by the possibility of using a fairly large HHO cell on a pretty small engine simply driving a generator which may be enough to power the cell just as depicted in that video showing a Anton cell running a generator in an elevator.

    See:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMlciNOyo_U

    There a few things about this video that many of you may not be aware of:

    1. The HHO system is sitting on a cart that is being strongly vibrated by the engine which helps to increase gas bubbles rising off the reactor plates.

    2. Engine does have a small air intake port supplementing the HHO supply.

    3. It appears his HHO is being powered by a simple variable transformer and rectifier which means that if he increases the voltage beyond a certain limit; the HHO cell will also start producing additional water vapor-steam that may also supplement the HHO supply.

    4. His generator and transformer are 240 volt models which may be a little more efficient than my 120 volt versions.

    5. His HHO cell may have been modified by sand blasting the plates at a 45 degree angle to also increase gas output per the suggestions of Morray King in his presentation at the 2012 GBEM conference.

    See:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pa2sjMN8sMc

    That is all for now, enjoy your experiments and have a great day!

    Kindest regards;

    Scorch.
    Just the street fire with plasma is way to small to try only water. Plasma ignition at that level is intended for gas powered cars running on leaner mixture with or without additional hho or water vapor.

    You can see Revizal's old motorcycle video using not a CDI plasma but cap with diode in parallel with the stock plug. He gets it to run a bit with just plain water in the intake but you can see the size of his cap setup.

    Just to see if it is promising for your setup, you can put a booster cap setup in parallel with your plug and see if it kicks over with just water.

    But I wouldn't plan on it being able to run that way strictly on water that easily and without possible damage.

    What about running it on gasoline then slowly lean it out to see how lean you can get it with plasma and water vapor? I'd go that route first to more easily see what happens first.
    Aaron Murakami





    “You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.” ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

  4. #524
    Hi AAron,
    With your help I have come to understand most of the information for buildiPLASMA.pdfng the Plasma Ignition.
    I have watched the video below but I am still not certain about the connection between the Positive lead on the coil
    to the coil HV wire. I am sending a diagram of the correct way to wire the system. What I see in the video is that the
    orange wire from the CDI is connected to the HV coil wire with a 20K diode.
    Please let me know if this is correct so I can correct my diagram. I believe this to be the only issue I have.
    I appreciate you help. UseNoFuel I can't seem to attach my diagram.PLASMA.pdf

  5. #525
    Networking Architect Aaron Murakami's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UseNoFuel View Post
    Hi AAron,
    With your help I have come to understand most of the information for buildiPLASMA.pdfng the Plasma Ignition.
    I have watched the video below but I am still not certain about the connection between the Positive lead on the coil
    to the coil HV wire. I am sending a diagram of the correct way to wire the system. What I see in the video is that the
    orange wire from the CDI is connected to the HV coil wire with a 20K diode.
    Please let me know if this is correct so I can correct my diagram. I believe this to be the only issue I have.
    I appreciate you help. UseNoFuel I can't seem to attach my diagram.PLASMA.pdf
    According to your PDF, it is all correct except for one wire - the wire coming from the diodes, you have it connected to the HV output....you need to move that and connect it to the + of the primary of the ignition coil. That orange wire is connected to the + of the capacitor in the MSD unit. You'll just have to test if your resistance wires will work, if too high, the plasma effect will not happen.
    Aaron Murakami





    “You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.” ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

  6. #526
    Senior Member Faraday88's Avatar
    Join Date
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    Location
    Bangaluru, Karnataka, India
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scorch View Post
    Hello all. How are you?
    I am fine and trust you are fine as well.

    I finally got around to performing an actual, real world test of the plasma ignition system on this generator and did produce a video of this yesterday.
    There is currently a blizzard moving through Colorado here on the plains and both major east/west routes are closed so not much work to do yesterday or today...

    The plasma ignition system itself is working well and I did run the engine for a short period of time just on a starting fluid primer.
    Then I set igintion timing to top dead center for optimum compression and tried doing some testing with both a mister spray bottle as well as an ultrasonic humidifier.



    Neither test has revealed any desirable effect such as a single "fire" of the engine or even an audible 'pop' from the exhaust port.

    And at this point; I am out of ideas of what else to try other than configuring for additional capacitive discharge to add high current to high voltage which is another project all in itself and will likely just burn up spark plugs and possibly cause other engine damage so I prefer to try some HHO experiments first.

    But I am certainly open to suggestions as to how it may be possible to run on straight water in this type of setup.

    I am still very intrigued by the possibility of using a fairly large HHO cell on a pretty small engine simply driving a generator which may be enough to power the cell just as depicted in that video showing a Anton cell running a generator in an elevator.

    See:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMlciNOyo_U

    There a few things about this video that many of you may not be aware of:

    1. The HHO system is sitting on a cart that is being strongly vibrated by the engine which helps to increase gas bubbles rising off the reactor plates.

    2. Engine does have a small air intake port supplementing the HHO supply.

    3. It appears his HHO is being powered by a simple variable transformer and rectifier which means that if he increases the voltage beyond a certain limit; the HHO cell will also start producing additional water vapor-steam that may also supplement the HHO supply.

    4. His generator and transformer are 240 volt models which may be a little more efficient than my 120 volt versions.

    5. His HHO cell may have been modified by sand blasting the plates at a 45 degree angle to also increase gas output per the suggestions of Morray King in his presentation at the 2012 GBEM conference.

    See:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pa2sjMN8sMc

    That is all for now, enjoy your experiments and have a great day!

    Kindest regards;

    Scorch.
    Hi Scroch,

    Sorry..but just saw only the video without the Audio...What's in the big Bottle with the glow in it there..?
    Rgds,
    Faraday88.
    ‘Mass is the Spatial density of Matter (Particle) and the Temporal Intensity of Space (Field)’.

  7. #527
    Networking Architect Aaron Murakami's Avatar
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    Just for the record, Michael S. sent this to me: http://capacitordischargeignition.com
    It is a single discharge per trigger, but is too expensive for what it is, but it is what I'm looking for in another application.

    I also found what could be THE master cap charge circuit solutions that I've been waiting for. I bought one and will test it out and will report back if it is promising, but looks like THE solution.
    Aaron Murakami





    “You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.” ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

  8. #528
    The big bottle is merely a reservoir of water vapor from an ultrasonic humidifier which is back-lit so I could see how the vapor was building up or being used.

    Kindest regards;

    }:>


    Quote Originally Posted by Faraday88 View Post
    Hi Scroch,

    Sorry..but just saw only the video without the Audio...What's in the big Bottle with the glow in it there..?
    Rgds,
    Faraday88.

  9. #529
    Hey Aaron. Thank you kindly for the input.

    I was thinking along the same lines and yes I could start applying more power such as the addition of the lower voltage, higher current cap bank.
    I also have one of the original "direct hits" capacitor adapters that I could install on the non-resistor plug and haven't even tried that yet either.

    But I can already see that just with the HV diode; it's already causing wear on the plug and adding more power is simply going to increase wear and possible engine damage.

    I may eventually want to come back to attempts with plain water in the future but for now; I do want to try working with an HHO cell just to make a point.
    I firmly believe the videos detailing "Anton cell running in elevator" experiment is genuine and this is what I initially set out to do so; I want to try this first with my working ignition system before I try beefing up the power any more when it could conceivably damage the test bed engine.

    I had originally planned on operating a 12 volt HHO cell but have since decided that it doesn't make any sense to deal with even more efficiency losses by powering a 12 volt cell from a 120 generator so I have now ordered this 120 volt cell which should be here by the end of the week.

    s-l500.jpg

    This thing is substantial with dual ports and a rating of up to 10 LPM and he demonstrates one of these operating on nothing more than a PWM light dimmer from the hardware store.



    And in my reality; simpler is always better!

    With regards to starting with gasoline then leaning it out towards water:
    The HHO is along the same lines.
    At lower voltages; it's HHO fuel.
    At higher voltages; it's more water vapor-steam...

    Kindest regards;

    }:>

    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron Murakami View Post
    Just the street fire with plasma is way to small to try only water. Plasma ignition at that level is intended for gas powered cars running on leaner mixture with or without additional hho or water vapor.

    You can see Revizal's old motorcycle video using not a CDI plasma but cap with diode in parallel with the stock plug. He gets it to run a bit with just plain water in the intake but you can see the size of his cap setup.

    Just to see if it is promising for your setup, you can put a booster cap setup in parallel with your plug and see if it kicks over with just water.

    But I wouldn't plan on it being able to run that way strictly on water that easily and without possible damage.

    What about running it on gasoline then slowly lean it out to see how lean you can get it with plasma and water vapor? I'd go that route first to more easily see what happens first.
    Last edited by Scorch; 02-15-2016 at 04:33 PM.

  10. #530
    Senior Member Faraday88's Avatar
    Join Date
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    Location
    Bangaluru, Karnataka, India
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scorch View Post
    Hey Aaron. Thank you kindly for the input.

    I was thinking along the same lines and yes I could start applying more power such as the addition of the lower voltage, higher current cap bank.
    I also have one of the original "direct hits" capacitor adapters that I could install on the non-resistor plug and haven't even tried that yet either.

    But I can already see that just with the HV diode; it's already causing wear on the plug and adding more power is simply going to increase wear and possible engine damage.

    I may eventually want to come back to attempts with plain water in the future but for now; I do want to try working with an HHO cell just to make a point.
    I firmly believe the videos detailing "Anton cell running in elevator" experiment is genuine and this is what I initially set out to do so; I want to try this first with my working ignition system before I try beefing up the power any more when it could conceivably damage the test bed engine.

    I had originally planned on operating a 12 volt HHO cell but have since decided that it doesn't make any sense to deal with even more efficiency losses by powering a 12 volt cell from a 120 generator so I have now ordered this 120 volt cell which should be here by the end of the week.

    s-l500.jpg

    This thing is substantial with dual ports and a rating of up to 10 LPM and he demonstrates one of these operating on nothing more than a PWM light dimmer from the hardware store.



    And in my reality; simpler is always better!

    With regards to starting with gasoline then leaning it out towards water:
    The HHO is along the same lines.
    At lower voltages; it's HHO fuel.
    At higher voltages; it's more water vapor-steam...

    Kindest regards;

    }:>
    KISS Principle....
    Rgds,
    Faraday88.
    ‘Mass is the Spatial density of Matter (Particle) and the Temporal Intensity of Space (Field)’.

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