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Thread: Plasma Ignition | Plasma Jet Ignition

  1. #441
    Quote Originally Posted by dowens View Post
    William, I was thinking of making a double electrode spark plug for a Ford 2.3l engine that has two plugs.Was going to run a hv and lv electrode in the same plug. That's a very good idea, don't have the funds to get it running correct tho, need aftermarket ecu to custom set ignition points as you were saying above. Two spark plugs or a double electrode plug is the trick IMO. I tested my plasmajet plug and it works as expected. Haven't put together a working model yet, maybe this week sometime if I get the chance. Lots of great info here and minds
    THAT will work Dowes! Are you using the OEM ignition coil system, or CDI & coil system for HV, and your cap booter for LV?
    Last edited by Willem Coetzee; 05-28-2015 at 09:29 PM.

  2. #442
    Quote Originally Posted by Willem Coetzee View Post
    THAT will work Dowes! Are you using the OEM ignition coil system, or CDI & coil system for HV, and your cap booter for LV?
    William, I'm using the OEM ignition and aquapulser. I haven't set Aaron's system up yet but that's next.I want to experiment with different boosts of plasma. The ceramic I used was found not good enough to put in an engine. Looking into more materials now.

  3. #443
    Networking Architect Aaron Murakami's Avatar
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    Regauging is a must in any non-equilibrium cyclic system - to me, just means that in a cycle, some potential dissipates to do some work and the system is setup in a way that it regauges itself - meaning it sets up another potential difference (create dipole again) between two main points so that the process can repeat while free environmental potential can come into the system. That is common to every legitimate over 1.0 COP system.

    I think we're talking about the same thing, but something might be lost in translation.

    With the inductive load, even with negative resistance that allows the accelerated discharge, I want to see if there is a reduction in saturation time for the inductor because if there is, that has enormous implications. Even with the negative resistance of the gap to accelerate the cap discharge, it is thought that the inductor will still charge at the same speed because of the impedance, but that is what I want to see challenged.

    It's been years since I studied Peter's book. Do you know what page the cross product is mentioned? This entire concept is also of enormous magnitude if true. Mixing 10's of thousands of volts over a gap with some serious current is some enormous wattage and if this happens in an ultra small time, then we're talking about something really special indeed. That does seem to be what is happening with the Gray motor with all the enormous overunity claims.

    The different variations of the Gray motor I believe are spelled out in Mark McKay's history lesson the subject. They had overunity and then they kept changing things and seem to have degenerated the technology. They wound up using ignatrons to switch very high current and in the end, it was completely conventional.

    The tube images don't seem to be very clear so I don't know how much digital enhancement will make - even from a professional. I think the tube encasement is there more for safety than anything else unless one of my old original speculations is correct that it might be sealed with nitrogen, which gets ionized with the discharges and then becomes high conductive. If the nitrogen is ionized enough and with the big cap discharge, no reason it can't be - it will be +3 charge and will really be sucking on the current to balance itself and will probably be conductive enough to allow a battery(s) to discharge over a gap but of course with a big enough discharge, probably can be done in open air. I do intend to make that work on the bench when I have time.

    For anyone reading all this Gray tube business, I apologize it seems off topic for the plasma ignition system, but it was the Gray Tube patent or actually Bedini's drawings of it originally with the reversed diode that gave me the inspiration to come up with the single cap method for both the input to the primary and the source for LV and high current.

    I'm still addicted to this entire topic lol

    Quote Originally Posted by Faraday88 View Post
    What do you mean by ordinary or symmetrical discharge of the battery? I don't think there is anything ordinary about creating a negative resistance path in series with a battery where the current is sucked out instead of it pushing into a positive resistance. Actually, I don't believe the current comes from the battery anyway... the battery is just a potential difference and the voltage flow comes from polarized aether at the terminal and over the wire/gap and the electron current comes from the copper wire or gap itself.

    What do you mean by Symmetrical Discharge or Encharge of the battery to achieve this "mixing??
    Gauge-Regauge mechanism is a QED thumb rule based on either Symmetrically or Asymmetrically doing it. Yes What is different in the way A Battery Discharges and the way a Capacitor Discharges..??if you Symmetrically gauge them they are one and the same. But When you evoke (How?) an Asymmetrical Regauging between The two Dipole states, you make them behave opposite..yes the Key is to make the BATTERY TO DISCHARGE LIKE A CAPACITOR AND VICE VERSA.When this is acheived I call it Encharged state (A state different from Charge, Discharge, Uncharge).BTW this is the same as what most of you guys have described as the Electret Effect of a Radiant charged Capacitor. This is for sure what is happening in the Gray Effect, also, the third element is not what we think it is..(The Inductive Load)

    The different physics needed to explain what I said in my post is just a principle. In a way, we have HV and low current and then LV and high current. When mixed over a gap, there is like a synthetic energy by product created that is a cross between the HV and High Current. It is more than the sum of the parts. Peter Lindemann have discussed these ideas for a long time and it is possible that this might be what was happening with Baldinelli's relay power supply that actually did not have a gap. If the HV and high current are indeed multiplied, then we not only have power increase by the time compressed discharge, but actually more wattage synthetically available to discharge in a compressed time and this is something special. I think something like this is happening but don't know any standard definitions that touch on this. This is where I say that it is not the ordinary Amperage at Playand that the Battery's Low Impedance is Asymmetrically gauged, There is a Node at/ along which the Conversion takes place where again Normal Amperage(low) shows up.

    Although a power gain is not technically energy since it is literally just power ( I Have been of the same opinion always!)- Tesla was using power instead of energy to do things as well. However, if we have energy dissipated over short time for high power or over long time for low power, the same energy discharged over short time with more power actually accomplishes more intended work. If we knock on a window 10 times softly nothing happens, but if we compress all 10 times of energy into 1 knock, it will break the window. Same energy input but at the higher power (1 knock), more intended work was done, which was breaking the glass. (Indeed!!!)

    Again, if we look at the possibility of a "synthetic" byproduct of actually multiplying the HV with the High Current from the LV source, that is a possible gain that nobody else is mentioning.(I have read Peter mentioning of a Cross product mechanism in his FESCE BOOK)And, the gap is an open system and with a high speed impulse over the gap, that high pressure causes a lower electrical pressure outside of the gap and causes through the same as Bernourlli effect to draw in more aether into that gap and over the wire, which adds more voltage force, which in turn will cause more current to flow. And when the inductor collapses, it also sucks in aetheric potential with it to add to the output in my opinion especially if in attraction mode.(Opposite wound coils i guess) Like the SG, when the coil collapses, I believe it sucks the aetheric flow around a magnet and adds it to the output spike and then instantly, the aether restores equilibrium to the magnet by replacing what was taken.

    I have seen that picture before that you show, but I don't think there is enough there to decipher anything. It isn't clear enough to determine that there is no gap.(What is surprizing here is alos to know as to how is the central electrode supported, likewise the Grids also seems to have supports which are not clear to conclude for sure..you are right . If that is the overunity Gray motor with tubes (not all of them were overunity)(How do konw this and why should'they be..why so many variants then?? that Bedini and Cole saw and examined, there is a gap in there.(Peter mentions of digitally enhanced image to find out the Capacitor Value) is there any way we can do tthe same to the CSETimages as well..?
    Aaron Murakami





    You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete. ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

  4. #444
    Networking Architect Aaron Murakami's Avatar
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    At the conference by the way, I will be giving a presentation that will be added to my Ignition Secrets package and the topic is how to use my particular plasma ignition method with wasted spark ignition systems.

    http://energyscienceconference.com/e...2015-schedule/

    I just put in new plugs and right when I was excited to try my new 0 ohm spark plug cables from Granatelli, the shape of the seal that goes on head over the plug is the wrong shape - not a big deal if snaps on the plug well enough, but the boots that go on the coil pack were completely wrong.

    I wrote them and hopefully they can get me the right setup. I also asked if they can just put in a HV wire in parallel with the main plug wire so I can easily connect the diodes to it.

    We'll see!
    Aaron Murakami





    You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete. ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

  5. #445
    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron Murakami View Post
    I also asked if they can just put in a HV wire in parallel with the main plug wire so I can easily connect the diodes to it.
    In the wasted plasma spark layout we discussed at about October 2014, Aaron, as is also published on this thread, there is just one old "law" that puzzles me, and it goes something like this:

    Voltage for parallel components is exactly the same as source voltage, but the current is reduced in ratio according to the individual component resistances.

    Gap under high-pressure to fire compressed air-fuel mix has HIGH resistance - gap in low-pressure exhaust gas has LOW resistance... RE, just like HV or current, seeks path of LEAST resistance... will it not cause the greater RE-event at the low-R-gap, since the "parallel law" states that the distributed HV will be the same for high- and low-resistance gap?

    We can't see inside the cylinders, so I'm not sure if I should rather convert the wasted spark to coil per plug, and will this actually work. The fuel is already burnt enough by plasma under compression and that wasted plasma just eats spark plug electrodes.
    Last edited by Willem Coetzee; 06-02-2015 at 07:14 AM.

  6. #446
    Senior Member Faraday88's Avatar
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    Regauging is a must in any non-equilibrium cyclic system - to me, just means that in a cycle, some potential dissipates to do some work and the system is setup in a way that it regauges itself - meaning it sets up another potential difference (create dipole again) between two main points so that the process can repeat while free environmental potential can come into the system. That is common to every legitimate over 1.0 COP system. Just a tip on How I do the Asymmetrical Rgauging : two Impedance elements one Light Bilb and another A Capacitor. we gauge symmetrically when the Capacitor 'powers the Light bulb and it self undergoes de-evocation in its Dipolarity.(the source is killed faster than it can power its load), Now here is how we Asymmetrically Regauge the system of these two Impedances: Imagine the Load Powered whilst the Capacitor Charging.
    this is what i meant by saying that the elements are Encharged, have a closer look the functions are flipped. This is a COP >1 system. I can quote at least two Patents that exhibit this principle ... Stan's Electron exctraction Circuit, Bedini's 'Pulse Charging a Battery and Driving other devices with a Pulse.


    I think we're talking about the same thing, but something might be lost in translation.

    With the inductive load, even with negative resistance that allows the accelerated discharge, I want to see if there is a reduction in saturation time for the inductor because if there is, that has enormous implications. Even with the negative resistance of the gap to accelerate the cap discharge, it is thought that the inductor will still charge at the same speed because of the impedance, but that is what I want to see challenged.

    It's been years since I studied Peter's book. Do you know what page the cross product is mentioned? I do'nt have the book handy at this point of time so sorry..shall let you know later... This entire concept is also of enormous magnitude if true. Mixing 10's of thousands of volts over a gap with some serious current is some enormous wattage and if this happens in an ultra small time, then we're talking about something really special indeed. That does seem to be what is happening with the Gray motor with all the enormous overunity claims. Even Gary seems to have refered to the trick as a 'Super secret of Mixing the Electrostatic Energy' but 'mixing' can implicate Mixing of distinct mechanisms like Switching ect..
    I am going to start a new Thread where i would describe My Theory of this mechanism hope fullywith some tested experiments to back my Theory.


    The different variations of the Gray motor I believe are spelled out in Mark McKay's history lesson the subject. They had overunity and then they kept changing things and seem to have degenerated the technology. They wound up using ignatrons to switch very high current and in the end, it was completely conventional.What are you pointing out at when you say 'Conventional' are you saying that the supposedly red hereing CSET is made redudant..?
    if you study Gray's UK patent it refers to two distinct Switches one of this is a Diode and the other is equivalent to an ordinary two state Switch (ON -OFF)..not to mention the Third element 'Switch control' which I'm sure is not a Switch at all!!! Gray UK Patent.jpg


    The tube images don't seem to be very clear so I don't know how much digital enhancement will make - even from a professional. I think the tube encasement is there more for safety than anything else unless one of my old original speculations is correct that it might be sealed with nitrogen, which gets ionized with the discharges and then becomes high conductive. If the nitrogen is ionized enough and with the big cap discharge, no reason it can't be - it will be +3 charge and will really be sucking on the current to balance itself and will probably be conductive enough to allow a battery(s) to discharge Your Ideation of Discharging the Battery accross the Gap is well taken However, this is not the Discharge in the Normal sense the Key is to make the Battery Dischrage like a Capacitor [B](any guesses when is this accompalished and how?)o[/B]ver a gap but of course with a big enough discharge, probably can be done in open air. I do intend to make that work on the bench when I have time.

    For anyone reading all this Gray tube business, I apologize it seems off topic for the plasma ignition system, but it was the Gray Tube patent or actually Bedini's drawings of it originally with the reversed diode that gave me the inspiration to come up with the single cap method for both the input to the primary and the source for LV and high current.
    Last edited by Faraday88; 06-04-2015 at 02:43 AM.

  7. #447
    Networking Architect Aaron Murakami's Avatar
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    I like the new plugs with the bigger gap.

    After watching this video of the plugs I originally put in...



    I realized I actually did cut the strap back a bit, but not like the ones I just put in here:




    The gap for each plug is now 0.095 inches so 0.19 inches gap total since the spark jumps two gaps per cycle.

    Not sure how much is placebo, but seems to run a bit stronger.

    Hope to get the Granatelli's back next week so I can put them on.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Aaron Murakami





    You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete. ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

  8. #448
    Hi Aaron,

    Regarding parallel plug wires and the "law" that says: Voltage for parallel components is exactly the same as source voltage, but the current splits up between the components so that low-R ones get MORE current tha high-R ones.

    Gap under high-pressure compressed air-fuel mix has HIGH resistance - gap in low-pressure exhaust gas has LOW resistance... RE seeks path of LEAST resistance... will it cause greater RE-event at the low-R-gap?

    Fuel is already burnt enough by plasma under compression, so plasma at end of exhaust stroke will just eat spark plug electrodes more?

    This problem is absent from sequential ignition - coil per plug, coil on plug and old distributor ignitions.

    Should I wait for the newest edition of IGNITION SECRETS that you will release after the conference for an answer, or I'm I sort of half right?

    Last edited by Willem Coetzee; 06-07-2015 at 11:37 AM.

  9. #449
    Networking Architect Aaron Murakami's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Willem Coetzee View Post
    Hi Aaron,

    Regarding parallel plug wires and the "law" that says: Voltage for parallel components is exactly the same as source voltage, but the current splits up between the components so that low-R ones get MORE current tha high-R ones.

    Gap under high-pressure compressed air-fuel mix has HIGH resistance - gap in low-pressure exhaust gas has LOW resistance... RE seeks path of LEAST resistance... will it cause greater RE-event at the low-R-gap?

    Fuel is already burnt enough by plasma under compression, so plasma at end of exhaust stroke will just eat spark plug electrodes more?

    This problem is absent from sequential ignition - coil per plug, coil on plug and old distributor ignitions.

    Should I wait for the newest edition of IGNITION SECRETS that you will release after the conference for an answer, or I'm I sort of half right?

    Willem,

    The current should be the same at both plugs - one under compression and one with exhaust port open since the voltage and current are forced to go through both gaps to complete the loop. At least this is what see happening with wasted spark ignition systems.

    With all of the plasma ignition tests, under compression gives the biggest plasma burst because it is jamming more air on that gap with more moisture giving more hydrogen giving more freed up hydrogen to make a bigger igniting plasma "kernel". Unlike a regular spark that can get snuffed out or prevented from firing under higher compression, the plasma does the opposite. Ross in Australia put up one or more vids through Energetic Forum showing his compression chamber tests.

    Yes, with non-wasted spark, only one plug to deal with at a time so a non-issue.

    You have as much or more experience with the plasma ignition than I do with wasted spark ignition systems - not sure how much my presentation at the conference will help you.

    The way I'm going to set it up on my car - hopefully done by the conference - will be a round about way to do it since I don't have a custom coil wound to my specs that will solve the wasted spark issue for plasma ignition systems. But, it will show what is necessary to get it to work perfectly on any wasted spark ignition system.
    Aaron Murakami





    You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete. ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

  10. #450
    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron Murakami View Post
    Willem... The current should be the same at both plugs - one under compression and one with exhaust port open since the voltage and current are forced to go through both gaps to complete the loop... You have as much or more experience with the plasma ignition than I do with wasted spark ignition systems - not sure how much my presentation at the conference will help you.
    Hi Aaron,

    I don't want to give away your work-around until you officially announce and publicly presented it, but I'm not talking about the current going in one plug and exiting the other in that kind of a loop.

    I'm referring to what you posted earlier in the thread around Sep-Nov regarding + in parallel, and - to ground. I'm sure you know the "parallel law" of old electrics - HV for plugs fired in parallel will be same as source for each plug - gap-resistance not, so most RE & current might go to gap with LEAST resistance, according to that "law"...

    Does the discharge speed of Murakami Method clocked for HV at 10ns and LV at 100 us by Mark McKay in Gray Replication thread, OVERCOME this?
    Last edited by Willem Coetzee; 06-07-2015 at 09:48 PM.

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